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3/14/2012 12:52:25   
Lycus
Legendary AdventureGuide!


=ED= Balance Discussion Thread


All balance discussions will be restricted to this thread. This is to condense the many issues that you have all expressed into a single place that the balance people can work on.

Please keep all balance discussions in this thread, and don't forget to follow the forum's rules.

Some things that the balancers would like you to avoid discussing. Please do not post about the following things.
quote:

No discussion/request for buffing or enhancing Founder Armor - Any additional perks that founders may recieve will be at the discretion of the staff.

No "luck" complaints - This thread is not a place to complain about an unlucky streak that caused you to lose a match. Please remember that while luck may seem to favor or disfavor you in the short run, over the long run it does average out.


quote:

As a general rule, no buffs will be granted to rare items. This is regardless of their status as Limited, Seasonal, Promotional, etc. In order to achieve a more balanced system of play, buffs cannot be guaranteed or handed out on a regular basis. This policy has been decided by the game staff and is not likely to change. However, if you feel that your case is especially strong, that is, you have numbers and evidence to support your conclusions, you are welcome to contact the game staff using this forum's PM system to discuss it more thoroughly. Keep in mind that the game staff cannot promise that your case will be followed through upon, as the game's balance will take precedence over personal requests for the sake of all of the game's vast player base.

In regards to this discussion thread, you are still permitted to discuss buffs to rare items, but these discussions must be placed within this thread.


If you disagree with these policies, please send Lord Barrius a PM and the issue will be discuss. DO NOT post in this thread to protest these things, your post will be deleted and you will be issued punishments for breaking the rules.



=ED= Balance Discussions I
=ED= Balance Discussions II
=ED= Balance Discussion III
=ED= Balance Discussion IV
=ED= Balance Disussion V
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
3/14/2012 12:59:01   
Remorse
Member

That balance discusiion topic filled fast :O


Makes me hopeful for perhaps a decent balance change....... :)


Hint Hint nudge nudge

*cough Powerbuilds cough*



Epic  Post #: 2
3/14/2012 13:08:34   
Ranloth
Banned


Reposting my suggestion so it's in this thread as well. xD Also this will serve purpose of being my main suggestion post, so afterwards I can edit + send a link. :)


Bots:
They, are quite strong at the moment. Assault Bot and Heart Borg in particular. As we know, Yeti's special is only useable once per battle. Would changing these 2 bots to once per battle help in the end? In those really long fights, both bots can be used at least twice which gives advantage; even too big if non-Varium.. Giving it only once per battle would make the choices perhaps more wiser as you could not use it again. Perhaps slight change could be good as well. 80% is quite a lot, whether it's Assault or Heart Bot. Scaling by Focus is much better - surely you don't like seeing Str-abuse with Azrael Bot whilst having Focus 1 or 2 and taking away 80% of your buff + have really high damage, no? Focus 1 - 15%, Focus 2 - 30%, Focus 3 - 40%, Focus 4 - 50%, Focus 5 - 60%.
It's much better that way as currently buffers and nerfers serve no purpose as you're most likely to have them debuffed thus wasting a turn and Energy which is important for some classes. And it actually makes Bots balanced, as they aren't supposed to give you so much power without any effort put into it (stats).

Blocking:
Currently formula is "Block Chance Adjustment = (Defender's Dexterity - Attacker's Dexterity) / 2". We have 10% fixed to add for adjusted blocking chance and it cannot fall below 4% (overall blocking). Going by 3 examples here: 80 Dex build vs 50 Dex & 110 Dex build vs 50 Dex & 100 Dex build vs. 20 Dex (smoked, about -30 Dex) (both Tanks against normal'er build (Str/Support/etc)). First gives 25% chance to block, second gives 40% chance and last one is 50% chance to block. That is for Defender, now attacker on given examples has: 4% chance, 4% chance and again 4% chance. Isn't that quite unfair? Luck plays a role there that our unlucky person will block a lot but it isn't really fair how low it is even if luck didn't play a role in it.
I've thought of different suggestion on changing the fixed and minimum blocking rate which favours training Dex but not to the point where it's abused because it carries a penality - the higher difference, the higher penality will be. I allowed myself to use Excel here and posting a picture of few different scenarios with differences and last one being either abuse or using Reflex Boost of BH's/BM's skill tree at high Lvl + high Support: http://i43.tinypic.com/2h35reo.png
Yes I've made Dex decay as the difference is bigger to lower the defensive capabilities of it + make it less abusable for different skills or builds that do take advantage of having certain stats at (very) high level.
Now onto explaining it:
  • Fixed blocking rate is DEX/10. It's used to add onto total blocking AND is used as minimum. So rate isn't fixed like it is now but allows you to get better blocking (even when your Dex is a lot lower than enemy's, you get higher chance at least and it's fair) and slightly compensates for the decaying at bigger differences (you can see penality (penality = DEX*whatever the difference is on the table there*) getting almost to 1/2 of DEX so makes sense).
  • Blocking is simply DEX/2 (after accounting penality).
  • Total blocking is a bit different - you take a total and take it away from your enemy's (so 1st scenario is 51.17647% - 30%) and it gives the final value in "total blocking rate"). As you can see, as DEX gets closer to your enemy's, player with 100 DEX has even lower block rate as the enemy is catching up with the player (DEX wise) which clearly makes sense. Seeing as player with lower DEX has lower blocking, in effect it should go below 0% chance (cannot block), I've made fixed blocking in place depending on DEX now - not luck.
    On 100 vs 90 scenario, you can see how both players are close and it's only 1% apart. Simply but, 100 has 91% chance to hit while 90 has 90% chance to hit.

    Tactical Mercenaries:
    Passive Armors - only classes who should have them is Mercs and TLMs; they are unique for them only

    TLMs were OP'ed for long time, got their nerf and they are balanced so far but are you sure? It has passive Armor and Energy regen which is fine, but passive Armor seems to kinda make it still a bit strong with their skill tree. One suggestion for them is taking out Mineral Armor competely and replacing with current Hybrid Armor of Mercs. Why should TLMs get brand new Armor while Mercs have old one? All evolved classes have first tier of skills the same (but CH with EMP, not my point) and making it +6 Def and Res would be perfect for TLMs and would balance them out even further. Although it's just a suggestion, it could be good but it's all in the air unless we know how strong FC will be in terms of being useful and if Technican can be back.
    You will say it's a nerf. No! FC is useless right? It will be revamped once they get to Merc class and also work on Intimidate which is a buff to BMs as well which they need a bit. Once FC is fixed, TLMs will be even further balanced. Also this will tie in with my Bot suggestion as if you get FC debuffed at current state of bots, it's pure useless just like most of buffers.
    Although BloodShield could go, Technican can be put back because it was making Smoke too strong and provided too good synergy with some skills. Now there's no Smoke so it makes sense to put it back + SS build would have a bit better chance as you could boost it a little and defend well.
    Liking it so far?

    Cyber Hunters:
    Now CHs! Firstly I'll suggest new skill tree, not much different and people will like it:

    Heal  - Cheap  - EMP
    EShi  - Static - Matrix
    Multi - Condu  - Venom
    Stun  - Mass   - SA


    Matrix and Energy Shield both improve with Support so I suggest putting Energy Shield in place of Plasma Armor but make it improve with Tech as well. Having it with Support would make Matrix+EShield quite strong and Plasma already has Tech requirement so Shield could improve with Tech instead.
    Static Charge returned to former glory, before all the nerfs to it but ignoring defences just like it should.
    Stun Grenade is same as they have now, not BH's version.

    Conduction is new skill replacing Malf. Malf and Multi provide great synergy with their Skill Tree already which is why I decided to change it slightly, original idea was mine but Void gladly helped me to improve it which is great! :D
    Conduction affects only Resistance alone, not Tech which affects deflection rate and skills, which give CHs a great advantage in fight. Also why can't CH be unique and have new skill as well? Here's how it works:

    Level 1: Reduce Target's Resistance by 1 Point.
    Level 2: Reduce Target's Resistance by 3 Point.
    Level 3: Reduce Target's Resistance by 5 Point.
    Level 4: Reduce Target's Resistance by 7 Point.
    Level 5: Reduce Target's Resistance by 9 Point.
    Level 6: Reduce Target's Resistance by 10 Point.
    Level 7: Reduce Target's Resistance by 11 Point.
    Level 8: Reduce Target's Resistance by 12 Point.
    Level 9: Reduce Target's Resistance by 13 Point.
    Level 10: Reduce Target's Resistance by 14 Point.

    It does NOT improve with any skill, these are fixed rates. You will argue it's weaker than Malf as it doesn't affect stats but -14 Res is equal to about 56-60 Tech which is a lot more than Malf which requires very high (abusive) Support build and also maxed. I might not have it included here but there would be requirement for it, and not Str. I'd say probably Tech which makes sense with Conduction and could work well as it only enhances Stun Grenade and EMP.
    You know people why CH were underpowered before? Because TLM was too strong and every class felt that way, now see what happened because of it? If TLM is balanced, surely old CH can do as good now?

    Blood Mages:
    I thought of it while thinking on how to make BMs not just Str-oriented which restricts your build a lot so this was quite a good way to make it work. *you can find it in Void's post as well on 1st page*

    Blood Shield: Sacrifice your health to activate an energy shield for you or an ally.

    Energy Required: 0 (No Cost)
    Conversion ( Progression depends on character level ):

    Level 1: 4 / 5 / 6 Health transfered to x2 Resistance
    Level 2: 5 / 6 / 7 Health transfered to x2 Resistance
    Level 3: 6 / 7 / 8 Health transfered to x2 Resistance
    Level 4: 7 / 8 / 9 Health transfered to x2 Resistance
    Level 5: 8 / 9 / 10 Health transfered to x2 Resistance
    Level 6: 9 / 10 / 11 Health transfered to x2 Resistance
    Level 7: 10 / 11 / 12 Health transfered to x2 Resistance
    Level 8: 11 / 12 / 13 Health transfered to x2 Resistance
    Level 9: 12 / 13 / 14 Health transfered to x2 Resistance
    Level 10: 13 / 14 / 15 Health transfered to x2 Resistance

    Warm Up: 0
    Cool Down: 2

    So going by that, 1 HP = 2 Res simply. We want to keep same HP cost as it is because BMs can get HP back via BloodLust which provides great synergy. Seeing as Energy Shield costs Energy, it's hard for BMs to play defensively with limited Energy, and also Reflex costs Energy too which makes it even harder in some situations.
    At Lvl 10, you could get up to 30 Resistance (depends on your Lvl) by spending 15 HP for 3 turns only. If you look at EShield/DMatrix, they can do that as well at high Lvl or with high Support but you have to pay Energy instead which is not possible to regenerate for BMs. Cooldown is also lowered to 2 turns because it lasts just 3 turns - before it lasted 5 turns and cooldown was 4.
    Main reason this is stronger is lower duration of the Shield, therefore we could increase power significantly and it could work for BMs quite well. This could perhaps open possibility for other builds than just Str because BL works with every weapon, not just Primary so you could go for a Tank and use Tech for Plasma, or SC build with BL and BS. Dex improves SC so your weakness would be whichever was lower and you could fix it by using BS.
    Void's say on the skill: Blood Shield is optimized for Blood Mages because of the lack of energy, and the mutuality between it and the skill already owned... Bloodlust. Energy Shield is powerful in itself, however Blood Shield is not phased by EMP, allowing more proficient use of other assorted skills that use energy, such as an attack skill like Fireball. This skill does not make the Blood Mages overpowered as it costs both health and a whole turn to use, while not inflicting damage. To make up for this, Trans decided that the added Resistance be a higher value, twice the amount in Resistance in ratio to health.

    Buffers and nerfers:
    Currently buffers take a turn and do nothing while nerfers debuff you + attack at same time. Would perhaps striking with buffers OR smoke to be applied only so no strike, be better?
    As currently it's a wasted turn while nerfers get an advantage, on top of it if you debuff a nerfer then that's another turn wasted and even more damage taken. I'd go for nerfers being applied without a Strike and keep buffers how they are. If one attacks while other has to wait then the attack one is not fair as it gives same thing but nerf + damages you.
    And also, if Bot's debuff were to be reduced to about 60%, nerfers did not attack just like buffers but apply the effect, this could make some buffers a lot more useful. But also if you attack someone with buffer on (Dex/Tech buffer) and use Smoke, you technically debuff them and get even higher increase in Rage which is quite the advantage as you still striked which dealt damage.


    < Message edited by Trans -- 3/17/2012 14:59:31 >
  • AQ Epic  Post #: 3
    3/14/2012 13:18:52   
    Remorse
    Member

    They really need to change the rage system.

    You know something is wrong when you come agianst a Blood mage and you have to waste two turns to get a sheild in (thorns then they azreal the thorns then you can sheild)

    Yet they get a rage in 2 turns.....


    Perhaps make rage slighlty more about the damage you take and slightly less about the damage you deal.
    It would still be the same counter for tanks as tanks dont usualy take much damage.

    Would be handy because when an already oped powerbuild is able to rage 3 times befor you can once.... and you havnt enen been given a good opportunity to attck SOMETHING is messed up!
    Especialy considering STR builds dont have much support.

    another good idea would be make rage more influenced by support and less by low support. Considering the support stat is failry weak now it would be fair.

    < Message edited by Remorse -- 3/14/2012 13:19:34 >
    Epic  Post #: 4
    3/14/2012 14:01:44   
    Stabilis
    Member

    Current Stat Attributes:

    quote:


    Strength: Increases base damage range of Primary, Sidearm, and enhances certain skills.
    Dexterity: Increases physical defense, increases the chance to block, and enhances certain skills.
    Technology: Increases energy resistance, deflect, robot damage and enhances certain skills.
    Support: Increases base damage range of Auxiliaries, increases chance to go first, critical strike, and rage rate; reduces chance to be stunned and enhances certain skills.


    Suggested Stat Attributes:

    quote:

    Strength: Increases base damage range of Primary, and rage rate.
    Dexterity: Increases chance to block, accuracy of Primary, chance to dodge (50%), accuracy of Sidearm (50%), accuracy of Auxiliary (50%), and accuracy of Ancillary (50%).
    Technology: Increases accuracy of Robot, base damage range of Sidearm, base damage range of Auxiliary (50%), and base damage range of Ancillary (50%).
    Support: Increases base damage range of Auxiliary (50%), base damage range of Ancillary (50%), and improves buff skills (Defense Matrix, Field Commander, Reflex Boost, etc).
    Defense: Increases physical defense.
    Resistance: Increases energy resistance.
    Luck: Reduces chance to be stunned, increases chance to stun, critical strike, chance to go first, chance to dodge (50%), accuracy of Sidearm (50%), accuracy of Auxiliary (50%), and accuracy of Ancillary (50%).
    Focus: Increases base damage range of Robot, and charge.


    50% ► the highlighted attribute improves at only half of the normal rate (normal: attribute increases by 1% per 4 stat points/ 50%: attribute increases by 1% per 8 stat points)
    Dodge ► a ranged weapon can completely miss, comparable to blocking
    Charge ► the level of a Robot's special, the higher the charge level, the more effective the special will be




    8 stat point are distributed each level. Ancillaries are a new weapon, and have been designed for Support to supplement a second source of outgoing damage as Sidearms have for Strength. They have one more turn of cool-down than Auxiliaries, at 5 turns.

    The Stat Progressions





      Steps towards further fixing balance:


    1. Remove or Change Agility


      • Agility was meant to control players who used both high levels of health and decent levels of damage output. I do not believe that high levels of health was as much of an issue as forcing Focus to work around 95 health at 45 equalized stat points for each stat. The health difference, but same damage meant that whoever had more health was more likely to win. The problem I would have to say was Strength's damage progressions. Also agility's role on rage. Rage can be calculated by the value of damage taken. Because agility can increase damage, agility allows players at high levels of health to accumulate rage faster. If you need my opinion please ask me.


    2. Remove or Change Encumbrance


      • Encumbrance was meant to allow lower levels to compete with level cap players, and also to save on item costs, by allowing their weapons to be handled with only reduced damage. This is not enough, as stats themselves are not compromised. Lower levelled players are fundamentally more lucky, and they do not need weapon damage or armour points to administer skills improving with stats. Exploiting stats only becomes more of an issue with a growing player-base and new releases. If you need my opinion please ask me.


    3. Remove or Change Enhancements


      • Enhancements were meant as a bonus to give players the opportunity to... empower themselves further. I find that this does null to help in the ongoing issue of stat exploitation. If you need my opinion please ask me (although Remorse would be more enthusiastic about this topic).


    4. Change Focus


      • Focus was meant to benefit players who chose to balance their stats, and to add diversity to EpicDuel. I agree that this is a nice addition, however even Focus has issues. Because Focus is not it's own stat, it's own mechanics rely on all 4 of the basic stats. In this way it is very difficult for staff to determine the abilities of Focus when the present issue may lie on one of it's own foundations, Strength for example. I recommend highly to split Focus in making it it's own stat. This suggestion is indefinite.


    5. Remove Stat Requirements


      • Stat requirements were meant as a band-aid to demote the use and exploitation of stat points. Requirements attack diversity by promoting only the present Focus dillema. If stats are imbalanced, fix the stats, and the wound heals completely. This is an indefinite suggestion.


    6. Remove Skill Improving Stats


      • Improving stats skills were meant to give stats another meaning besides forming the character, an attempt at diversity. However, both stats and skills are fundamental concepts, and when they directly link, there is a power imbalance. For example, Tactical Mercenaries had used to own a Support improving Field Medic, Artillery, a Reroute to refuel these skills, and a regular Auxiliary to backup damage. When staff decided to stop improving Field Medic with Support, I absolutely saw positive changes. This is an indefinite suggestion.






    A Cyber Hunter Repairs List:

    i) Steps

    ►Remove Plasma Armour [high priority]

    ►Remove Shadow Arts [high priority]

    ►Remove Malfunction

    ►Remove Cheap Shot [high priority]

    ►Remove EMP

    ►Add Conduction

    ►Add Plasma Aura

    ►Add Cyber Arts

    ►Add Blue Ruin

    ►Add Energy Shield [high priority]

    ►Massacre - becomes a Physical Ultimate for Cyber Hunters... - becomes an Energy Ultimate for Bounty Hunters (or you create a new Physical Ultimate skill for Cyber Hunters and Bounty Hunters. Malfunction and Conduction both synergize great power with Energy attacks, imagine ultimate attacks that work with the player's Primary.. the same applies to Bounty Hunters and Smokescreen)

    ii) Descriptions

    ▼Plasma Aura▼

    If a user of Plasma Aura is struck by a Primary weapon, the attacker is dealt bonus shock damage. Plasma Aura will not reduce health below 1.

    Level 1: Attacker takes 1% of their total health in damage.
    Level 2: Attacker takes 3% of their total health in damage.
    Level 3: Attacker takes 5% of their total health in damage.
    Level 4: Attacker takes 7% of their total health in damage.
    Level 5: Attacker takes 9% of their total health in damage.
    Level 6: Attacker takes 11% of their total health in damage.
    Level 7: Attacker takes 12% of their total health in damage.
    Level 8: Attacker takes 13% of their total health in damage.
    Level 9: Attacker takes 14% of their total health in damage.
    Level 10: Attacker takes 15% of their total health in damage.

    Weapon Required: None
    Stat Required: None
    Level Required: replaces Plasma Armour
    Improves With: None
    Warm Up: 0
    Cool Down: 0

    quote:

    ND Mallet brought to me a great point: what if a player exploits a defensive build to minimize their incoming damage and have greater outgoing damage (enemy hits you for 3 damage, and every turn Plasma Aura hits 10 damage)? I have devised my own little logic to combat this:

    during the enemy's attack----
    attacknegate = player with Plasma Aura's Defense - enemy Primary damage + minimum Strength damage...
    if attacknegate <= 3:
    _____Plasma Aura = False

    Therefor enemies will not be shocked by Plasma Aura if their minimum Primary damage is the minimal value accepted... 3.


    ▼Cyber Arts▼

    Passively increases the Primary hit rate and resistance to poison.

    Level 1: 1% increase to Primary accuracy and 10% resistance to poison
    Level 1: 2% increase to Primary accuracy and 15% resistance to poison
    Level 1: 3% increase to Primary accuracy and 20% resistance to poison
    Level 1: 4% increase to Primary accuracy and 25% resistance to poison
    Level 1: 5% increase to Primary accuracy and 30% resistance to poison
    Level 1: 6% increase to Primary accuracy and 35% resistance to poison
    Level 1: 7% increase to Primary accuracy and 40% resistance to poison
    Level 1: 8% increase to Primary accuracy and 44% resistance to poison
    Level 1: 9% increase to Primary accuracy and 47% resistance to poison
    Level 1: 10% increase to Primary accuracy and 50% resistance to poison.

    Weapon Required: None
    Stat Required: None
    Level Required: replaces Shadow Arts
    Improves With: None
    Warm Up: 0
    Cool Down: 0

    ▼Blue Ruin▼

    Assail an enemy with 2 devastating strikes with the held Primary weapon. The player using Blue Ruin is charged with blue plasma.

    Energy Required:

    Level 1: 14
    Level 2: 16
    Level 3: 18
    Level 4: 20
    Level 5: 22
    Level 6: 24
    Level 7: 26
    Level 8: 28
    Level 9: 30
    Level 10: 32

    Damage Progressions:

    Level 1: 23% more damage
    Level 2: 26% more damage
    Level 3: 29% more damage
    Level 4: 32% more damage
    Level 5: 35% more damage
    Level 6: 38% more damage
    Level 7: 41% more damage
    Level 8: 44% more damage
    Level 9: 47% more damage
    Level 10: 50% more damage

    Weapon Required: Wrist blades or Sword
    Stat Required: None
    Level Required: replaces Cheap Shot
    Improves With: None
    Warm Up: 0
    Cool Down: 2

    ▼Energy Shield▼

    Increases energy resistance for you or an ally during combat.

    Energy Required:

    Level 1: 12
    Level 2: 14
    Level 3: 16
    Level 4: 18
    Level 5: 20
    Level 6: 22
    Level 7: 24
    Level 8: 26
    Level 9: 28
    Level 10: 30

    Weapon Required: None
    Stat Required: None
    Level Required: replaces Malfunction
    Improves With: None
    Warm Up: 0
    Cool Down: 2

    [A Trans Suggestion] Conduction: Strike and reduce the enemy's Resistance.

    (Resistance does not affect Deflection nor skills, but generally determines Energy damage)

    Energy Required:

    Level 1: 14
    Level 2: 16
    Level 3: 18
    Level 4: 20
    Level 5: 22
    Level 6: 24
    Level 7: 26
    Level 8: 28
    Level 9: 30
    Level 10: 32

    Resistance Scaling:

    Level 1: Reduce Target's Resistance by 1 Point.
    Level 2: Reduce Target's Resistance by 3 Point.
    Level 3: Reduce Target's Resistance by 5 Point.
    Level 4: Reduce Target's Resistance by 7 Point.
    Level 5: Reduce Target's Resistance by 9 Point.
    Level 6: Reduce Target's Resistance by 10 Point.
    Level 7: Reduce Target's Resistance by 11 Point.
    Level 8: Reduce Target's Resistance by 12 Point.
    Level 9: Reduce Target's Resistance by 13 Point.
    Level 10: Reduce Target's Resistance by 14 Point.

    Weapon Required: None
    Stat Required: None
    Level Required: replaces EMP
    Improves With: None
    Warm Up: 0
    Cool Down: 1

    Static Charge: Static Charge currently improves in scaling to Primary weapon damage + Strength damage. This can be exploited by Strength users who only need Malfunction and Massacre to play without tactile thinking.

    It has become a high priority to me now to suggest an edit to Static Charge to restore the class to all balance. Here it is:

    Static Charge: A percentage of your Primary weapon's damage is added to your energy in a Strike. Energy restoration is unblockable, however damage is blockable. Cool-down has increased.

    Energy Required: 0 (No Cost)

    Conversion:
    Level 1: 33% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
    Level 2: 36% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
    Level 3: 39% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
    Level 4: 42% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
    Level 5: 45% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
    Level 6: 48% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
    Level 7: 51% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
    Level 8: 54% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
    Level 9: 57% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
    Level 10: 60% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy

    Weapon Required: None
    Stat Required: None
    Level Required: 2
    Improves With: None
    Warm Up: 0
    Cool Down: 4

    Questions? I will try to answer them.
    Comments? Feedback is appreciated.
    Suggestions? With enough reasoning, I will consider your suggestions and add them. You will be credited.

    < Message edited by Depressed Void -- 3/20/2012 22:19:33 >


    _____________________________

    AQ Epic  Post #: 5
    3/15/2012 1:54:43   
    SylvanElf
    Member
     

    Please, please, PLEASE help balance ED. The Blood Mages are totally out of hand; fighting right about half of my 1v1 against Str abuse Blood Mages.
    There are 5 other classes in game seriously, it's not right that one class should be mopping up like this.
    I really wish that class changing had never been implemented. As soon as one set of imbalances is cleaned up, most of them change classes to the next nearly unbeatable class/build.
    I love EpicDuel, but there has to be some kind of major shift in how it works for balance, or it will never be even close to what it could be.

    SylvanElf, 34 original Tech Mage.
    Post #: 6
    3/15/2012 2:34:41   
    kittycat
    Member

    All characters should have the ability to modify their skill tree in some way. These skills should be accessed universally by all classes. Only 1 per player.

    -Vow of Life: 18% of the damage you inflicted goes to your HP reserves, you can use those HP reserve when you need it. (Max = 30 HP points)(Only 9% for BH, BM, and TLM)(Passive, uses up 1 turn to use the reserve)
    -Energy Portal: deals 50% damage to the opponent, returns 33.3% of the damage back the opponent(Manual, only for 3 rounds)
    -Dark Curse: deals 50% damage, reduces all stat points by 10%, except Support, which is 15%, unable to be affected by Assault Bot. Doesn't stack with Malfunction, Intimidate, or Smoke screen. If those are used, You will end up wasting EP. (for 3 rounds only, Manual)
    You gain 80% of those lost stats for 3 turns. (or you gain 8% of your opponent's stats(12% for support) for 3 turns)
    -Return The Favor: The user of the stat debuff will also have the debuff as well for 3 rounds.(Manual, once only!)
    -Borrow: debuff your defense and resistance by 25%, gain damage by 40% of that amount for 3 rounds. Cannot be affected by Azrael Bot.(Add the resistance/defense together. Divide by 4, round it up, then half it.(Manual, can be used many times)



    < Message edited by kittycat -- 3/15/2012 2:42:15 >
    AQ MQ  Post #: 7
    3/15/2012 2:35:14   
    Remorse
    Member

    @ Elf
    I totally agree.

    And the do need to look at the big picture, fixing Blood mages would be a start, but nfortuantely the everchanging Oped builds will never end Until balance is put at a sustainable level by making it hard to abuse the huge amount of sttas there are. By hopefully changing the enhacements system.

    < Message edited by Remorse -- 3/15/2012 2:51:39 >
    Epic  Post #: 8
    3/15/2012 2:37:30   
    kittycat
    Member

    ^ I see.

    It will never end, so thats why we should let players decide what skills they don't want in their skill tree and replace it with one of the listed. It cannot be changed.
    AQ MQ  Post #: 9
    3/15/2012 10:15:55   
    drodrae
    Member
     

    Support has been overly nerfed. Please fix this, seeing as now only the three other stats are being used by more than 90 percent of the PvP pop.

    Suggestions:
    *Return Field Medic Support improvement. Reduce improve rate.
    Example: (Only examples)
    Old = +4 Supp +1 Heal
    New= +6 Supp +1 Heal
    *More control over luck factors. Ensures no crazy double crits or critless fights.
    Example: (Only examples)
    Old = Chance to crit based on Supp diff.
    New = Crit once out of x turns. Random event. Every 15 Supp increases # of turns required for crit to occur again for opponent.
    *Ensure first turn.
    Example: (Only examples)
    For different levels, 1 lvl diff. is 6 points of Supp in favor of the lower level. 2 level diff = 13 pts. more than lower lvl to go first.


    As for mercs, see, every class can regenerate eithe HP or energy. Bloodlust, reroute, SC, Frenzy, Assim. Unfortunately, MERCS only have Field Medic(nerfed).
    How to compare HA and Bloodlust:
    Since HA blocks damage x, Bloodlust can be compared in a strangely similar way.
    *HA blocks 6 Damage.
    *For Bloodlust to negate similar amount of damage, you must deal 30 Dmg with Lvl 7 BL.

    -BL only works if you are very offensive, but easily pays off(Translating Damage to HP). HA is constant(Translating skill pts to def/res).

    I suggest giving mercs a new tier 4 skill. Come on, Atom Smash(Blockable, Str Based, T4) compared to EMP (Unblockable, Tech baed, T2/T1).
    Possible skill effects:
    *Passive Aux dmg+ (Similar to deadly aim, though much less useful due to +1 CD of Aux and Supp+)
    *Rage+ (Devs and players been talking about this already)
    *Passive +HP unaffected by Agility (Like Fortitude, following that mercs were miners before thus are tough. OP though with HA?)
    *Coffee Break (Full Heal, Refills Energy, removes debuffs, reduces all skill CD by 1, +50 percent def/res/dmg till next turn, 12 Turn CD Bwahahahaha JustKidding)

    P.S. Imma mage :D
    AQW Epic  Post #: 10
    3/15/2012 10:35:02   
    PivotalDisorder
    Member

    @Depressed: im gonna put you on ignore today if you don't change that stupid font.
    you stand out by having intelligent well thought out posts, the unique colour should be more than enough to identify you specifically.

    come on man, be reasonable, do you want a lot of people to scroll past that mess and/or ignore you completely?
    Post #: 11
    3/15/2012 10:39:01   
    Stabilis
    Member

    Oops, sorry Psibertus. If you needed to inform me of a mistake, though you could have informed me in a more respectful way.



    Editing my font format as of now.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 12
    3/15/2012 10:49:16   
    PivotalDisorder
    Member

    I have, I pmed you about it remember :) I also posted about it in the other balance topic and you said something like "oh sorry, one sec"

    great edit btw

    don't be offended though, you know what I am like. I'll take more time to read your posts
    Post #: 13
    3/15/2012 11:27:27   
    liy010
    Member

    quote:

    Conduction is new skill replacing Malf. Malf and Multi provide great synergy with their Skill Tree already which is why I decided to change it slightly, original idea was mine but Void gladly helped me to improve it which is great! :D
    Conduction affects only Resistance alone, not Tech which affects deflection rate and skills, which give CHs a great advantage in fight. Also why can't CH be unique and have new skill as well? Here's how it works:

    Level 1: Reduce Target's Resistance by 1 Point.
    Level 2: Reduce Target's Resistance by 3 Point.
    Level 3: Reduce Target's Resistance by 5 Point.
    Level 4: Reduce Target's Resistance by 7 Point.
    Level 5: Reduce Target's Resistance by 9 Point.
    Level 6: Reduce Target's Resistance by 10 Point.
    Level 7: Reduce Target's Resistance by 11 Point.
    Level 8: Reduce Target's Resistance by 12 Point.
    Level 9: Reduce Target's Resistance by 13 Point.
    Level 10: Reduce Target's Resistance by 14 Point.


    Trans, this is just about the greatest idea I've heard in a long time.

    One tiny flaw though...With my Current Malf (Level 3 with somewhat about 32+about 20 Support...Too lazy to check) I malf 27 and usually, they bot leaving -6 tech which lower their Resistance by 1 (Sometimes 2) and their tech (Skills and Deflect Chance) but with this, they but and they just get -2 Resistance and full tech.
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
    3/15/2012 11:36:00   
    Ranloth
    Banned


    Haha, thankyou! ^-^
    And to answer your question: even if CHs came back to old skill-tree, this would make them unique. Surely they are Energy-based class and their skills already provide great synergy. Yes we leave them with full Tech but lower Res, but this is compensated by taking away a bit more Resistance than Malf does; -14 Resistance is usually ~60 Technology as opposed to Malf taking about same amount with also maxed amount and slight Support abuse + affecting your other skills.
    If Plasma stays, then this idea is good as they have Plasma Armor thus lower Tech and giving them almost 25% deflection rate thanks to Malf is a bit off, don't you think?
    If Plasma leaves + SC is back to old state (old skill-tree), they will invest more in Tech to cover up for it and Technican+Matrix will be good enough -> Matrix provides a lot more Defence than Reflex but gives no stat boost, so Technican won't give as much Resistance thus higher Tech - high Tech + Malf = 25% deflection rate unless debuffed and moderate Tech of your enemy.

    Remember Bot also affects this, but look at my Bot idea which was mentioned by Remorse also and it should go great with this idea, won't you agree? xD

    You might say TM has Malf+Tech skills and is fine, but look at old SC which will give much more Energy than Reroute thus allowing you to Tank more. It also relies on Str to get higher regen while for Reroute, you must get hit to regain EP and up to certain limit as it costs you HP to do so while SC gives you damage, higher return and every 2 turns (can miss but regains much more). If Plasma stays, reasoning is above. :)

    If you have further questions, feel free to ask me. ^_^


    < Message edited by Trans -- 3/15/2012 11:37:37 >
    AQ Epic  Post #: 15
    3/15/2012 11:46:25   
    Stabilis
    Member

    Here it is!!!

    http://i44.tinypic.com/343hdeb.jpg

    Please note that the memory count of this image is noticeably small as it is a JPG.

    Image tags removed, please post a link rather than using the image tags regardless of the size of the image. ~Illuminator

    < Message edited by Illuminator -- 3/15/2012 19:45:36 >
    AQ Epic  Post #: 16
    3/15/2012 11:57:53   
    Elf Priest JZaanu
    Constructive!


    If varium enhancements were reimbursed in some form. This doesn't mean the game looses monies. These enhancements were already bought. Essentially, just new money in the game might be slowed a bit. But if there are new attractive features, over long term, this shouldn't hinder the game.

    What enhancements and class-change also done is super excelled the All-time Leader boards too. With opportunity, many players class-changed into the loop hole builds, and dominated with speed and ratio.

    As one continues to view this, it really shows how truly this system has been exploited for personal dominance over community balance.

    AQW Epic  Post #: 17
    3/15/2012 12:05:50   
    PivotalDisorder
    Member

    @Jzaanu: with that in mind, why are most of the "forum" community against an eventual leaderboard reset [if game becomes relatively balanced] or phase leaderboards.

    [that wasn't a dig at you, just you made a great point at the end]
    Post #: 18
    3/15/2012 12:56:17   
    Elf Priest JZaanu
    Constructive!


    Pivotal, you bring up an interesting angle.

    The All-time boards represent a global effort since the game began. It shows the players who have invested the most into the game with their effort. It also provides a face as a representation as the games most elite players.

    On the negative side, it promotes only the top 15. And sadly, for a person to maintain their spot, they must be continually active and an extremely high rate of approximate 150-250 wins a day. To achieve the quickest wins, many players class-changed also used their enhancements for high ratio builds that could be deemed exploitive.

    In one way, it is positive but, in another, it is tiring and endless.



    I feel the game will be more interesting if this system was broken down in game stages, where it does reset. A player can compete for that term, and if they finish within top 15 they can earn an achievement and a mark in Epic Duel History.


    As of now, I can give an example if both Comical Biker and Fay Beee retired from this game tomorrow, within a given amount of time, they will be eventually be removed from the list, and there will be no official recorded history of them ever being placed on the top other then their own efforts (screen photos, movies), and players who remained in the game (Word of Mouth).

    The all-time board is a difficult board to be part of, and overtime, is it really worth it?



    < Message edited by JZaanu -- 3/15/2012 13:11:11 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 19
    3/15/2012 13:05:08   
    Stabilis
    Member

    When Delta ends, let us create a hall of fame for everyone who is on the all-time leaderboards (I am not on any for your information). The hall of fame allows players to approach a plaque or statue and directly fame the winners and view their statistics.

    Then we can remove the all-time leaderboards.

    Then we can add phase leaderboards. For the next phase... Epsilon I believe?
    AQ Epic  Post #: 20
    3/15/2012 13:12:42   
    PivotalDisorder
    Member

    my original suggestion [which got heavily flamed] was that the current All-time leaderboards would be immortalised on an ED webpage forever [until game shuts down] and phase
    leaderboards introduced. would be far more incentive to play regularly if their was something you could actually achieve. doubt any gamma/delta players will ever make the solo or
    team leaderboard while older players have such a massive headstart AND had far longer to "abuse" the latest OP class/build combos.

    secondly, each players personal record would remain the same, so if you checked Comicalbiker's char page, you could still see how many total wins he has regardless of phase.

    I do understand class-loyal players like Fay Beee earned her spot on the leaderboards but can you really say the same for most of the others?
    and although BH are arguably a bit underpowered right now, STR BH was no1 build in 1v1 for a long time, even she got a lot of free wins from imbalance.

    @Depressed: couldn't call it a hall of fame though due to fame being an actual feature, but that is the idea i was getting at.

    < Message edited by PivotalDisorder -- 3/15/2012 13:13:35 >
    Post #: 21
    3/15/2012 13:22:30   
    Elf Priest JZaanu
    Constructive!


    The All-Time Board is a part of history, and the players representing that board over time are part of it. Somethings are very difficult to let go, due to, being part of their history. But as this game progresses, certain elements that require a continued commitment at any costs become very difficult to bear.

    I was lucky to see Sparticus over-take Gamal during that past stages of the game. I remembered, at that time, I never thought anyone would surpass it. Now it is only a story.


    After Sparticus became all-time leader, Angel Holocaust was next in line. I fondly remember while we were both at our mid 20's in level range, she told me she was going to be the top player. And with hard work, like Sparticus, she did achieve it. Now, with time passing, this is another story.

    These are just 2 players, and there are so many more who made an impact on both circuits, and by sectionalizing, players can be officially remembered and immortalized as a part of Epic Duel History.


    AQW Epic  Post #: 22
    3/15/2012 15:47:54   
    Doctor Dragon
    Banned

     

    jzaanu i don't like that idea people have worked very hard for it. if it was to get remade or deleted. people in all time boards would feel abit ripped off if u know what i mean. like all the hours they've put into this game inorder to reach that pace in all time leaderboards.
    Post #: 23
    3/15/2012 15:52:16   
    Lord Nub
    Member

    ^ Not really balanced related but this keeps popping up.

    Why not just have monthly boards?

    No reason to rip others off by deleting the all-time and no reason making i impossible for others to be on a board.

    Update it once every 24 hours like the all-time board and it should be essentially lag free. If boards create so much lag, why does the daily update so often? Don't see a problem with new boards updating once every 24 hours...Also gives players more to shoot for.
    AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 24
    3/15/2012 16:00:35   
    PivotalDisorder
    Member

    @Lord Nub: lag was the issue many put forth for having no more leaderboards. if that idea is possible then I think I support it.

    but

    all-time leaderboards are a joke anyway. but hey, I am not really allowed to comment on them because apparently it means I am jealous.
    Post #: 25
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