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RE: Patch Notes - 1.4.9b

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8/25/2012 15:38:07   
Hun Kingq
Member

Mother1, That what it looks like when Players are asking Nerf after nerf. Me and other long term players went against nerfs because it is not the way to bring balance or make positive changes. Nerfs destroy classes and pretty soon you will see a lot less Blood Mages.

The problems are with the stats and always have been.
Epic  Post #: 176
8/25/2012 15:39:10   
Joe10112
Member

Yeah I just went back and tried something new with CH. I failed. I have literally close to no way to play as a nonvar CH right now. I can't even win simple NPC battles with a STR Build due to my defenses/resistances being too low. Yeah...looks like I'll stay off of ED another week. Cut EMP grenade in half maybe? Problem solved? Buff Static to midway between pre-nerf and pre-pre-nerf? Problem solved? Now regens like 17 EP per strike, but EMP only does like 15 EP drain on average or something? (20 if you used to drain 40), maybe increase the cooldown of EMP by 1?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 177
8/25/2012 15:41:47   
Sympleton
Member

how is reroute OP with TLM? TLM's in general take less damage than mages, meaning they get less energy. Basically reroute is more effective how much hpyou have. Not how much armor.
Epic  Post #: 178
8/25/2012 15:54:58   
Mother1
Member

Joe10112 17 energy gain would be buffing CH more then what they were before even if only by 1 energy point. At most CH could only get 16 energy back so that wouldn't be in between but above.

A number like 12 energy or 10 would be more in between since even with rage most CH now only gain back 9-10 unless they crit which will give back more. Heck if you are wearing the weapon that powers up crits you could gain 18-20 energy back.

Sympleton sorry about that, I guess I put my foot in my mouth on that one. Must be because I see them TLM heal loop more then TM due to their passive armor and hard to get through defenses. But I do still see some get chipped down, they use high healing, then the same process all over again.
Epic  Post #: 179
8/25/2012 17:53:09   
fightR
Member

okay im about a half enhanced varium player, i do SC and i get 4-5 (9 if the opponent has malf on them) energy back in a 2v2 fight. now i can only do that move every 3rd move. that is a 1/3 of what i would get before. now to a TM they get energy based off damage they get right? now basically TM reroute is 3 TIMES more powerful than the static charge for me. Do you think that is fair when they get back energy for all damage the receive, and we can only get energy as much as the damage is dealt every 3 turns? i think not. My subjestion is either take off the nerf or make the SC a passive move that works like reroute only with damage dealt.

Edit: Also Static can be blocked which just makes it worse for CH if that happens

this is also just to talk about the energy crisis i, along with others, face. Not so much the nerf of other CH moves

< Message edited by fightR -- 8/25/2012 17:55:53 >

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DF AQW Epic  Post #: 180
8/25/2012 18:17:05   
Mother1
Member

FightR remember TM and TLM are taking a beating to get their energy back unlike with Cyber hunters who actually give the beating to get energy so yes I would have to say it is far even if all CH think otherwise.

But here is something no one thought of. What about when you crit with this attack? Believe it or not your opponent is malfed and you crit with this attack or rage crit with it you are actually getting more energy back then you would with it the old way. Plus if you are wearing the war mutating weapon when you crit you will get even more. I seen it happen once in a fight and that person actually got back 22 energy because of it.
Epic  Post #: 181
8/25/2012 18:20:13   
shadesofblue
Member

^There is no possible way to get 22 Energy back unless you deal 74 damage to your opponent (after defenses). I usually don't even do that much on a critical massacre with the Infernal Interdictor, let alone on a strike. Doing this would require off the charts strength (40-48 Strength is not enough, unless you're attacking a malfunctioned City Guard). 40-48 +35 is not enough damage.........The Heck!?

< Message edited by shadesofblue -- 8/25/2012 18:31:34 >
AQW  Post #: 182
8/25/2012 18:38:03   
Mother1
Member

^ This person had high strength, the opponent was malfed with already low resist, and they crit on rage with the infernal interdictor. Remember rage ignores 45% of all defenses and the infernal interdictor boosts up crits.

However, next time around I will try to post a link to a screen shot. Since I got simaliar responses when i said I lost to someone using the inferal android while having 90 health and they had 7 (before it's nerf)

But that aside The point I was trying to make is while this is a strong nerf for CH it also has the potential to be a hidden blessing but that is if the right conditions are met. (Which is change which everyone hates unless it comes their way all the time XD)

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 8/25/2012 18:41:20 >
Epic  Post #: 183
8/25/2012 18:47:04   
shadesofblue
Member

quote:

Since I got simaliar responses when i said I lost to someone using the inferal android while having 90 health and they had 7 (before it's nerf)

I can believe what you said about the Android, but we're talking about numbers here. The numbers don't lie; the Infernal Interdictor adds about 15 to your crit, so it's possible to hit higher than you raw damage capacity, but first, you'd need to hit 60 on a crit without the Infernal Interdictor. Most people can't even hit 55 raw damage, and adding in defenses (Very rarely do you see someone who can be malfed to 0 resistance), you'd need at least 30-36 STR for this to be remotely possible. Keeping in mind that when you have STR like this, all other stats would be really low, so you'd die quickly before getting to take advantage of Static. Especially since your SUPP and your DEX would be really low, so you'd most likely get blocked, and your MAX malfunction would barely debuff 30 points. We all know that low SUPP=Low Crit chance, so the odds of pulling something off like this are probably less than .05 percent. You'd probably still lose anyways, making this completely impractical.
AQW  Post #: 184
8/25/2012 21:40:19   
Rayman
Banned


 To Get 22 energy with Static you need to Do 72 Dmg.

< Message edited by Rayman -- 8/25/2012 21:58:39 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 185
8/25/2012 21:52:46   
Mr. Black OP
Member

quote:

^ This person had high strength, the opponent was malfed with already low resist, and they crit on rage with the infernal interdictor. Remember rage ignores 45% of all defenses and the infernal interdictor boosts up crits.

So basically the only way to get a reasonable amount of energy with static is to get a crit with arguably the most broken weapon in game against a person who is malfed who had virtually no resistance before the malf. Yeah that sounds fair.
Not every CH has the infernal claws, and the majority of the enemies I face tend to have more than 20 resistance. Besides if I was to malf then I got back 22 energy I would make an amazing 2 energy profit.
Epic  Post #: 186
8/25/2012 22:27:52   
Mother1
Member

Mr Black op it would be a 6-7 point profit not 2. Remember before you would get either 15 or 16 from it so it wouldn't be too points. Also just because the the Mutating war weapon powers ups crits it is broken that is a joke. Crits can come at anytime every if you have enough support to get the 20% chance for crit, but let's get back to the original subject.

There have been many ways told to counter this nerf. here is one of them

1 Invest more points into energy. For the longest time most cyber hunters I would encounter would invest little to no points into energy due to static giving it back to them in the form of an attack. As a result of this those point were invested into because more tank, more strengthy etc. Also with this static came the heal loops and emp loops especially if they invested points in dex and tech but left their strength and support weak. I seen this before the 44% to 29% nerf, and I still saw it happening after the 44% to 29% nerf. If you are worry about your energy so much add points into it so make up for your weakened static. It won't hurt you to do so. Plus like Mallet man said if a class realizes on one move too much something is defiantly wrong with that picture. 99% if not all CH would base their builds on static and most would have little to no points invested into Energy? Oh and don't give me that excuse that if I invest some points into my energy I will be left defenseless You have Plasma armor (the skill which most people said caused your downfall into nerf city lol) as well as Defense matrix. use those for Pete's sake that is why you have the skill.

I might be coming out to be harsh with my words but CH have been relying on this one skill for far too long, and some have been abusing it. A good build doesn't focus around one skill. It is because of the masses who played as this class relying on this skill that most of them are upset with this change now since static is almost like Assimilation now minus the energy drain.





< Message edited by Mother1 -- 8/25/2012 22:31:17 >
Epic  Post #: 187
8/25/2012 22:33:26   
shadesofblue
Member

Rayman is Correct! In all, you need to do at least 65 raw damage for 22 energy regained to be possible, so you need 25-30 +35 for 22 energy regained to even be remotely possible (Your weapon needs to hit the 30.). 25-30 is more than many STR BM's (Most use 23-28 or 24-29, although some use the 26-32 variant), and if you're going to deal 72 damage you probably don't care the Energy Regained. The 65 damage is based on if they have a maximum of 12-15 Total Resistance(Including Armor, Agility, etc.), so it's about the same as a Malfunctioned STR BM. This is keeping in mind that you need full varium and enchancements with this build, and as Mr. Black OP said you will also need the Most OP weapon in the game. To top it off, you'll also need level 35, extreme luck, (no blocks against you, critting every time, no crits on you, blocking, etc.) And even with all this, it may not work. So really, the best option now is NPC'ing if you're a non-varium, and a STR Shadow Arts build if you're a full varium.

@Above: What if we took reroute from TM and said that they were relying on it too much? Same principle here. Switch to CH, and you'll know that "get more energy" doesn't work. Again, since we're all making the same points over and over again, I'll make mine again too: If you nerf Blood Lust so that it only gives back a maximum of 5 Health per turn, and say to BH's: "Get more Health" would that work?

< Message edited by shadesofblue -- 8/25/2012 22:38:44 >
AQW  Post #: 188
8/26/2012 8:45:46   
Eventus
Member

quote:

All balance discussions will be restricted to the Balance Discussion X thread. This is to condense the many issues that you have all expressed into a single place that the balance people can work on.

I've just finished deleting several heated posts, so as a reminder, I'd like to ask you all to remember to maintain a civil conduct before submitting your posts in the balance discussion thread. Any posts pertaining solely to balance in this thread after this post will be deleted on sight with consequences issued accordingly. Thanks.

Also as a reminder, please consider reviewing the =ED= EpicDuel Discussion Forum Rules, particularly these three sections --

quote:

  • Show Courtesy and Respect to Others
    The forums are made up of a very diverse cross-section of the global community. Accordingly, we ask you to remember that not everyone speaks English as a primary language. That not everyone has the same education. That not everyone is of the same race, ethnicity or religion. That not everyone will have the same opinion as you will. Treat each other with kindness, respect and tolerance, just as you would expect them to provide to you in turn. This is not a request. Any user who is deemed to be showing malicious posting behavior towards another member of the forum community will receive a minimum of a Warning. More significant consequences are possible depending on the severity of the post(s).
    • quote:

  • No Spam/Whining Threads
    Please do not post in a thread unless you have something to add to the topic at hand. Do not post off-topic chatter, do not role play, and please make your post simple and easy to read by avoiding things like oversized font, unnecessary colors or all caps. In addition to refraining from spam, please refrain from creating threads with the sole purpose of complaining about things in the game, such as lag. Well-reasoned discussions will be permitted, as always, but threads that exist purely to complain and whine will not be allowed, as these threads are prime targets for flaming and trolling.
    • quote:

  • No Suggestions
    This is a discussion forum, which means that any suggestions, be they for a game or for the forums, do not belong in this board. Please see the Forum-Specific Rules & Complete Forum Index for further information. Balance suggestions will be permitted in this forum, but only in the designated thread. Balance suggestions not placed in that thread will be deleted on sight.
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    AQW Epic  Post #: 189
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