RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (Full Version)

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krazy demon child -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/18/2009 20:59:23)

Wait, so you're actually punished for maxing your rep? That just seems so...wrong. Had I known it was more efficient to use half armies with a rep of 8 I would probably have at least 500 more kills.



The Almighty -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/19/2009 11:17:42)

you arent punished, you just lose efficiency. It's the same system as with spells, you could buy a level 1 spell, and it would cost next to no mana, but easily deal damage at a 1:1+ mana to damage ratio, however you just have to cast it a thousand times to get it to equal a level 100 spell.

a full rep portal gives you a higher max from a full army, able to get 30 or so in one send. the problem is the variance, it gives from 3-30, while half rep gives you 3-8, at a discounted send price.

What should happen, is they should increase the base amount you get with a full, fully maxed rep army. to something like 15-30+.

at least in my opinion, but as it is, use the max efficiency, or stay with a max rep if you feel like making one nice click per day for your army send.



Traceur -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/20/2009 8:57:10)

is using half guards as opposed to full more efficient for guard tower too, then? i want max rewards so im curious.



Sugar -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/20/2009 9:25:19)

yes, because you are more likely to hit your average performance and be thrown off by unlucky lower hits. It seems to perform better all around. This has been around since the early days of sending armies/guards when captain said that there was no benefit to sending more guards/armies. Given that, you know that on average they should be the same, but with the half, you send more, your sample size is larger and so you are mroe likely to hit the mean send value.

It is possible to do better sending more guards, but you have to be pretty darn lucky.

The reputation thing is what is a new revelation from this war.



pssvr -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/20/2009 9:32:04)

On the issue of half armies versus full armies (and by extension, 8 rep versus 11 rep):

quote:

ORIGINAL: SIGMUND
Using completely unmathmatical language I'll try to explain.
It is due to the smaller range of possible results which happens many times and gives a more stable average for smaller armies.
Although over a long period of time the large armies should generate a similar average, They do not do so during the war because you can't send Large armies enough times to generate the stable average.


The Captain described this as logical and seemed to approve of it. Now, translated into math, what this seems to imply is that sample mean values of half-armies have a lower standard deviation than sample mean values of full-armies, which is sensible, given that the sample size for half-armies will be twice as large as the sample size for full-armies if the resources used are the same. Since sample means like this approximately obey the rule sample mean standard deviation = population standard deviation / squareroot( sample size ), we find that the standard deviation of half-armies should be 1 / sqrt(2) times the standard deviation of full-armies.

Furthermore, the post says, "over a long period of time the large armies should generate a similar average," This, if correct, implies that the true mean reward for sending armies INDEPENDENT of whether you said half or full armies. The APPARENT strength of half-armies would be a misconception due to small sample size.

There is only one way (short of the Captain giving a definite answer) to clarify this issue. People who collect data on the rewards must use a sample size of at least 25 (so that a standard normal distribution approximation may be applied) and must report the standard deviation of their data as well as the mean. Then, when the means and standard deviations of both half-armies and full-armies are reported, we can test to see whether the true means are different or not. Even if we take it as a given that the number of armies sent doesn't matter, this same technique still applies to determining how reputation affects reward.

I'll do my best the next time we have a war.



etching -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/20/2009 14:02:59)

>>is using half guards as opposed to full more efficient for guard tower too, then? i want max rewards so im curious.

>yes, because you are more likely to hit your average performance and be thrown off by unlucky lower hits. It seems to perform better all around.

It's worth noting that in 40 cracks at the guard tower (level 9, 888 guard power) using half power,
only twice did I get lower than six kills (a 4 and 5).
Since full power is twice half power, that's a minimum of eight kills if I had sent half-power twice.

But here's the kicker --- in only *ten* cracks at full power, I got 4, 5, 6, and 7 kills!
That's four times in only ten attempts I got less than what I would have gotten had I just stuck with half-power only.
Dunno if the max full-power is more than twice half-power, but I kinda doubt it...(Max full power was 29 kills, 15 at half-power)

The same phenomenon applies to Rep 8 vs. Rep 11:

In 50 cracks at Rep 8 (half armies), only twice did I get less than 4 kills (both were 3).
Since Rep 11 half armies uses 2.5x the resources (275/100 vs. 110/40 for Rep 8),
that would mean the equivalent of 7.5 kills sending Rep 8 half-armies 2.5 times.
But nine times in 50 cracks at Rep 11 (half armies) I got 7 or less kills (lowest was 5 twice).

The same applies to the high end as well, I got 8 kills a bunch of times at Rep 8 half-power,
which equates to 20 kills when multiplied by 2.5x. The highest at Rep 11 I got in 50 cracks was only 18 kills.

50 cracks at Rep 11 (half armies) on my lvl 93 secondary yielded on average: 11.26 kills/765 gold/2229 XP
50 cracks at Rep 8 (half armies) yielded on average: 6.06 kills/373 gold/1086 XP
But multiply the Rep 8 avg by 2.5 and you would get 15.15 kills/933 gold/2715 XP for the same resources spent.
So Rep 8 appears to be a better deal than Rep 11...



manunkind -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/20/2009 14:15:25)

if the standard deviation is the only difference, then the average is the same. if the average is the same, then the bigger army/bigger rep is just a bigger risk/reward. over the long haul, they are even. over the short haul, you could win big or lose big if you go all in. if you want to play it conservatively and limit the chance of losing big by going small frequently, you also limit the chance of winning big.

edit: here's another way to think about it. would you rather have $5 or $4 to $6? over time, it makes no difference.



Sugar -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/24/2009 8:23:41)

I am hoping that museums start doing SOMETHING.

I am hoping that I can find a way to generate more wood. (Ebony Grove anyone? Ebony Grove for DMS?!?!?!? Make it cost 3K tokens? PLEASE!!!!!!!) And no, I am not suggesting that only DMS shoudl be able to make up for its weakness, I would recommend something like Blessed Elvish Spring for a forest estate mana helper, and a seashell beach for Tiki's, etc.

I would place these at somewhere between the secondary resource producer and the primary... e.g. somewhere between stone pit and graveyard.

So instead of maxing it at 3 food/18 stone I would place it at 2 Mana and 14 wood. The high token price is the cost of "breaking" through an otherwise "difficult" limitation on the estate.

Make the progression something like:

Ebony Grove

1-1 wood
2-2 wood
3-3 wood
4-4 wood
5-5 wood 1 mana
6-7 wood 1 mana
7-9 wood 1 mana
8-11 wood 1 mana
9-13 wood 1 mana
10- 14 wood 2 mana

or make it food if you like, but that might be too nice.....


I like this update because the art exists (just make it from 1 to 3 darkovia trees) and place them like the mana generators. This is probably something that is relatively easily done by the captain.
the other two would probably require more artwork.....




137ben -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/24/2009 13:46:09)

Darkovia already has the best total resource production per hour of any house location. The gap between them should be closed, not widened. With trade hut, the house locations that give an extra 3 resource per hour are better in every way.



fearshbane -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/24/2009 17:26:42)

137ben, the only way they can do that in a fair way is to create more expensive versions of the other estates so that they have the same amount of plots.
After all, it's only fair that a darkovia estate has a larger production that a tiki one since a darkovia one is a lot more expensive.



137ben -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/24/2009 19:33:54)

^^No, I was referring to the total resource production of special estate items. That is independent of the size of the estate. Currently each estate has 2 special resource production items, and the total resources are not equal.



FiendBane -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/26/2009 12:21:17)

One way to create more plots is to have a "building" which (like the classic bag of holding) "opens" up another plot of land (which is actually just the next screen much like when you view your neighbours?)
where you can build whatever you want to build on these bonus plots.

This way, players need not suffer the grieve of changing houses? 2 levels off all the buildings, especially storage buildings is something i guess players would want to avoid.
How does that sound?
Its like we can already have planet-connecting mega-world portals...the possibilities are endless.



maikiejj -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/26/2009 12:39:20)

something like that is a great idea FiendBane.

a building for extra plot's or a buyable extra plots.

Or just a extra House or estate.

I would LOVE something like that.



Koshko -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/26/2009 15:49:26)

It would be interesting to have a few buildings that can bring more than one resource. We probably could use a second stone and mana producing buildings, maybe something that ends at level 10 with 10 of one and 5 of the other.



SIGMUND -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/26/2009 16:06:07)

I think it is just time to raise the basic buildings to level 15. It is an easy update and is already planned to happen at some point?

This would give the Captain another month to perfect any new buildings that he has planned.
Or time for the developers to perfect the additional functions planned for the Guard Tower or the Museum. [:D]



OnuaNuva -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/26/2009 17:05:46)

I vote no new Estate items until the Museum is useful.

SIGMUND, I believe that the Guard Tower does everything it is meant to. It protects your estate and lets you get some bonus gold/XP during wars. The only thing that I want from the Guard Tower is a more accurate description of how well it defends an Estate.



Captain Rhubarb -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/27/2009 4:08:10)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FiendBane
One way to create more plots is to have a "building" which (like the classic bag of holding) "opens" up another plot of land (which is actually just the next screen much like when you view your neighbours?)
where you can build whatever you want to build on these bonus plots.


I do have plans to add a "underground cave entrance" building, which opens up several underground plots of land.
Some of the existing buildings can be placed below ground, and there will be new buildings specially made for underground.




SIGMUND -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/27/2009 6:12:03)

quote:

Captain Rhubarb:~
I do have plans to add a "underground cave entrance" building, which opens up several underground plots of land.
Some of the existing buildings can be placed below ground, and there will be new buildings specially made for underground.

Interesting....
I am not sure I would like to move my existing buildings though. The cost in time and money might be too high.[8|]



.*. .*. .*. -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/27/2009 6:15:37)

Well I don't mind more buildings as long as they produce a lot of resources. [:D]
Time will tell what Captain Rhubarb is planning for us.



137ben -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/27/2009 13:33:37)

Here is a simple solution for the people demanding a use for museums: sell your museum. Face it, even if a use came out tomorrow, there would be no garentey that you would like it. There are more people who need more plots than who have museums (I think, may be wrong.)



brianspenceni -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/27/2009 13:40:38)

Think you're missing the point. Seems a bit ridiculous to continue developing Estates without having (the promised) functionality in pre-existing items.



Conspiracy -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/27/2009 13:53:17)

Underground lairs?

I hope they have something to do with coal mines, diamond mines, oil drilling, underground water reservoir etc etc.

Those might be linked to the resources energy/food/stone, but I hope there may be something that's link to wood.



137ben -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/27/2009 19:35:57)

Brian, that same logic could be used to say that all items and monsters should be swept before anything new is released. While this seems reasonable, lots of people complain every time a release doesn't include items for their character.

Museum update=only good for people with museums
More plots=good for everyone, AND makes museum easier to get for people who don't have it.

So it would make most sense to add more plots <i>first</i> then museum after (but only 1-2 weeks after, if not in the same week).



OnuaNuva -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/27/2009 21:36:30)

quote:

Brian, that same logic could be used to say that all items and monsters should be swept before anything new is released. While this seems reasonable, lots of people complain every time a release doesn't include items for their character.

Museum update=only good for people with museums
More plots=good for everyone, AND makes museum easier to get for people who don't have it.

So it would make most sense to add more plots <i>first</i> then museum after (but only 1-2 weeks after, if not in the same week).


Not Quite

Museum Update: Good for everyone with and estate AND 800 or more tokens/those who own museums.

More Plots: Good for everyone with and estate AND XXXX or more tokens.

Without that number known, you cannot give an accurate answer, although I am certain that it is more than 1,000, making the museum more accessible.

Currently a player owning a Forest or Darkovia mansion estate could only go over the plot limit by one, typically by choosing either a Magic or Battle stat trainer to be left out. Neither are necessities and since most builds will benefit more from one than the other, it is easy to choose which.

Museum first.



Diceroller75 -> RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion (9/28/2009 11:43:12)

Here is my view on that, about 1 maybe 2, estate updates a ago the capt. said that the next update would be more item slots/estate slots/museum functionality. instead we received a smaller update that gives us a max of 15 levels for storage building. while that was a good update it would be better to have a more estates slots.

oh and before someone tells me i should just get a mansion DME or FME i had one for a long time. while waiting for the Beach Mansion Estate to be released. but we were told quite a while ago that that there were not going to be any bigger houses or different locations for the existing houses. now if that was to change and i could buy a beach mansion estate i would buy as soon a it was released.

I might even buy some z-tokens but as it is. The only thing really keeping me interested in AQ right now is the estates. so i really hate the constant releases of items that are really expensive and to top it off not better then any item i already have or an item that is currently in the game that is very unlikely to go rare.



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