RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (Full Version)

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IsaiahtheMage -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (3/2/2011 13:30:03)

I finally relized why this game cant even be balanced.To many ppl all have way to many different opinions.Some say this is Oped,this is Uped they need this we need that remove this buff up that nerf that.No wonder balance never gets done.To many people cant agree.So we should all end this arguements and deal with it.Its never gonna happen unless we all agree whih is highly unlikely.I give up on balance now it isnt gonna happen.I am sorry all Mages your still gonna be treated unfairly deal with it.BH people will still be in deinal about SA and want it removed deal with it.Mercs people will still hate on Hybrid armor even when its our only defence oh well we must all deal with it.



Shadronica -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (3/2/2011 17:13:31)

My ideas for a solution to the balance problems in EpicDuel is for the AE/ED admin to -

1) Bring down the high varium cost of the game first and foremost. ECONOMICS.

Spending $10 - $25 on ONE wep with enhancements is ridiculous especially as that wep can easily become outdated within a short period of time.

When we bought enhancements they should have made them transferable to each wep in our inventory (a one time buy only for one lot of enhancements).

Varium sell back HAS to be implemented ASAP otherwise the game cannot move forward for us. Imagine the dilemma we would all face if they moved our level cap to 35 and beyond to level 50? This would mean that all the weapons we have bought are redundant. (Waste of X amount of dollars). I personally cannot allow myself to throw money away like that.

Change the structure of the war kills. This was one of the greediest ploys I have seen.
For mine, the war kills with leaderboard were unnecessary. It rewards factions for spending bucketloads of money to buy World Domination. Therefore, attempts at World Domination is beyond the realm of most factions.
Its not uncommon for certain players to spend $200-$300 on war kills at the end of that day to gain World Domination. To me this is obscene and insane to gain some recognition for a short period of time in a not so well known 2D game.

Our hairstyles should be a one time only varium payment to buy a customised style.

Fixing the economics of this game will provide a much larger user base e.g. AQW and DragonFable etc. In actual fact if the economics were sound and stable for ED I would easily assume it could even surpass AQW and DF.



2) Since I am not a specialist on balance requirements for our builds/stats/skills I will leave that to players that understand the mechanics of the game.

However, every time I see our admin have made changes to the mechanics of this game it seems to make things worse.

I am not really sure of our admins agenda with all of the imbalance.

In the meantime we definitely need new battle modes or quests to keep ourselves amused while the admin keep fiddling with our game mechanics.

If the admin are doing this deliberately to make us change class and or buy new weapons then they are sadly deluded as they will keep losing players not gaining them.

Economics is my background. I have spent many years in economics.



drekon -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (3/3/2011 3:41:25)

Strength Abusing Mercenary - Solution
As you know, ALL strength abusing merc have low support. Yet, they frequently get first strike even though they may not be considered "underdogs" by the level requirements. A strength merc who goes first is likely the victor in a battle (Unchallenged!). Here is a balancing solution without giving them a reason to complain. If a player's strength is higher than 100, that player should have significantly less chance to start first. Similar to how players 4-5 levels lower have a higher chance to go first. Just in reverse. This will allow the opponents of a strength merc to at least put up a fight, instead of watching helplessly as they are demolished in 2 turns.

I came across this insanely high strength build (35-42 +32) twice in a row. The player, a level 32 varium merc, had extremely low support (20 +12). My support is (45 +10), yet he went first both times and I was destroyed both times without getting the chance to do anything. I know the admins see the unfairness in this, and I hope this issue is reconciled asap.

This thread has gotten quite large, so I hope my solution is not lost in here.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (3/3/2011 3:52:49)

a player is 2 levels higher, has less support than his opponent and goes first. am i missing something here ?
seems that particularly mechanic is completely broken from 1-31 [cant confirm at 32 as I dont have a 32]



edwardvulture -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (3/15/2011 17:56:47)

5 Bonus seems Oped a bit somehow. The new weapons allow you to be good in every stat.



PD -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (3/18/2011 21:11:24)

All these complex solutions... There are 4 straightforward things to do to achieve balance forever. Must be done in this order or else it's entirely meaningless.

1. Equalize Stat Values
2. Equalize Skill Ratios
3. Standardize all weapons and remove enhancements after that
4. Remove focus and Agility



Light Stridr -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (3/22/2011 16:26:32)

quote:

Standardize all weapons and remove enhancements after that

Anybody who has bought those will rage.



The Doctor -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (4/3/2011 19:31:53)

@PD
About removing enhancements... it's not a bad idea.
However, I think that anyone who has bought an item enhancement would need to be reimbursed for what they paid.

This would require a manual going-through of every active (played since the enhancements update) account.
They could be compiled on a list before the update removing enhancements.

Then, when the servers were taken offline, a final check-up would be run on newer accounts that enhanced their items.
Those accounts would also be added to this list.

Finally, the amount of Varium and/or credits paid would be added to the account that spent it.
It would be simpler to just give the equivalent amount in Varium even if credits were paid, because giving some hard-working players a bit of "free" Varium would be less destructive than letting things stew in their current state.

Thank you,
~The Doctor



voidance -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (4/3/2011 22:36:37)

Yea i would be mad if they took it away without a reimbursement considering ive got 10+10+10+8+8+8+8+8+8+6+4+4=13,850 varuim.



Shadronica -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (4/3/2011 22:53:47)

In my experience with our admin they will never take back anything that they have put into place.

Granted you are right PD. However, I received a PM a long time ago from Nightwraith basically stating that they would NOT reverse anything.

With that in mind its up to the game developers to fix the way the PvP side of the game is running. However, I seriously doubt that they would even admit that there is a problem well not to any of us anyway.

We now have a most hostile environment of physical and energy wielding abuse builds. Hard to counteract both types of attacks with all the different builds.

My guess is that Titan and Nightwraith are quite happy with themselves unleashing a plethora of crazy builds that somehow magically work with even a minimal amount in dex ... not to mention crits that come out of nowhere occasionally.




The Doctor -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (4/4/2011 18:05:15)

I explained this a bit in the first post, but game balance is just the combat system anymore.
It's everything to do with ED, including, to an extent, Fame.

There is already a thread to discuss the controversy of Fame.
However, here... we are discussing how it affects the balance of EpicDuel as a whole, tilting from sanity to insanity.

My current question is this: Are the recent updates slowly putting EpicDuel on a track that it can't get off of?
That is to say, are we getting to the point where we can't fix everything that is flawed?

Thank you,
~The Doctor



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (4/4/2011 20:31:17)

Going off of what Shad said if we dont fix some parts of the game that are hurting diversity amoung builds or fame, a problem i could write a book on, then where does that leave ED a year from now if not afew months from now.

Ill take a wild guess at this the older players(Beta alpha) will have left thus pretty much removing the origanal feel of ED becuase the people who helped bring this game where it is today could not get the admins to change some things that clearly show problems



Shadronica -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (4/4/2011 21:09:33)

Absolutely Doc.

Our game developers are only young themselves and I feel they have implemented many things that has made this game deviate so much from a friendly PvP game right through to downright frustration to see the continuing deterioration.

I have been privvy to a lot of secrets on this game and I just don't see any consistency with either the battle engine or with the punishments for certain players activities.

I feel that this game got way too big for our admin and Artix would have done well to give them an older/more mature adviser to help them make better decisions.

So between weird battle predicaments/outcomes and some fairly savage players allowed to flaunt corruption and now the dev's allowing this f4f spam situation I would say it is far beyond being fixable since the dev's will not reverse anything.

Angels Holocaust made a lot of sense with her post regarding deletion of our losses or at least from public view. This way everyone could basically just be like everyone else in one of AE's games apart from leveling up and showing your win content.
It certainly would take away a lot of the egocentric nastiness that is so commonly displayed.

That or we could all sell our accounts to you know who and she can have the game all to herself. lol






x666satan666x -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (4/4/2011 21:20:02)

^ if we got rid of loses and made this game just like all the other ae game then it would be just that, other ae game, not epicduel. in this "supposed" pvp game loses should matter. without loses whats the points in any of these. the fun aspects in this game are making fun builds to win, or to have fun. if i makes an insane build with 45 health and 200 dex i know ill lose. but i had fun going down in flames. with out that people would spam str to 200 and fighting would mean nothing.



Wraith -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (4/19/2011 21:45:00)

OK. Assimilation...is EPIC. I use a customized version of Celestine's build, works perfectly. 5 energy is enough to wipe out any "perfect energy" player.

That is all I have to say.

Wait, not all.

Celestine, thank you.



T.600 -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (4/27/2011 9:06:26)

Game is pretty balanced right now. :3 I'm joking luck is out of hand, each battle is decided by luck -.-



Arath -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (5/14/2011 20:15:07)

Gamma bot is making the game unbalanced. Robots are far more powerful than using a str-based weapon.
So players just focus their stat points on tech. With the addition of the ouble attack,the use of gun or weapon becomes obselete.
Consider this, you can have a gun attack, an auxillary attack. But two robot attack(gamma bot) in a turn?
Remove double attack from gamma bot and replace it with a special abilities.
With that being state, robots are becoming less effective as you level up.
The reason is because it is much harder to increase the damage of robots than it is to auxillary.
Every 4 points increase the damge of auxillary then 5 after 52, 6 after 87. For robots, every 5 points increase the damage then 6 after 55, 7 after 85.
There is no problem with the stat progression, that is not the point.
The problem or difference between auxillary and robot is that the damage of auxillary increases as you level up(if you buys a new one).
But for robot, it remains static and the maximum at 30 if all stats have atleast 45 points.
Robots are weakening each time you level up.
The solution is that focus should be remove, add a level-based robot but increase the requirments(it is the same thing as focus).
In conclusion, gamme bots are overpowered at lower level while robots are flawed



Polandor -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (5/15/2011 14:52:06)

2vs1 currently is really bad, here how to improve it:

* 2vs1 need a new button, so only ppl who want it choose it.
* Increase the team lv, facing a lv 33 to 26-29 (instead f current 22-26).
* a new Leader board for juggernaut consecutive wins (daily)
* Add an option to make a team for 2vs1.
* After each juggernaut win on the same day make the battle harder, example for a lv 33:
26-29 (0 win)
27-29 (after 1 win)
28-29 (after 2 consecutive win)
29-29 (after 3 consecutive win)
29-30 (after 4 consecutive win)
30-30 (after 5 consecutive win)
30-31 (after 6 consecutive win)
31-31 (after 7 consecutive win)
31-32 (after 8 consecutive win)
32-32 (after 9 consecutive win)
32-32 (after 10+ consecutive win)

Those reset everyday, this would make it a challenge, it will also make room for new juggernaut (when someone has 9 consecutive wins, it would ensure less waiting time before a match begin.

*Juggernaut should always go 2nd if facing two lower level player. (26-29)
* Exception to the above rules, give 50% chance to go first if facing a team with a level -1 of the juggernaut
* Exception to the above rules, give 33% chance to go first if facing a team with a level -2 of the juggernaut
* Exception to the above rules, give 13% chance to go first if facing a team with a level -3 of the juggernaut

Lv 33 face two lv 22-26. it a 100% win to any descent lv 33.
You could put 3 or 4 lv 22-26 vs one lv 33 and the lv 33 will still win.
It also a I win button, for those who pay 1200 varium.
It a I lose button if a lv 22-26 try to play a regular 2-2 battle and end up vs a juggernaut.
You can say just don't play 2-2, right ?
Well a lv 22-26 has a lot of chance of facing a higher level in 1-1 and also lose.
The new 2vs1, is actually removing a 2-2 mode for many players.

2vs1 need to be challenging, not a free wins.



Wraith -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (5/15/2011 14:56:11)

^Stop copying and pasting Polandor. We make our own choices. Stop trying to boycott Juggernaut and make people not buy it.

Right now I am gonna go buy a Upgrade Card so I can get it. I will say whether it is good or bad when I do 2vs1.

ByeBye!



Crovile V2 -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (5/15/2011 15:21:53)

I do feel it really funny now. Balance is something that cannot simply exist. Coz we aren't meant to be equals. And if (in the next 5 years) we all become equals then what would be the point in having a duel ?



Ashari -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (5/15/2011 17:09:51)

Please don't post in month old threads. That is considered bumping a dead thread and is not allowed.

I think this thread has served it's purpose. This discussion started well over three months ago and the situation and overall balance of the game has changed quite a bit since then. Most of what's been said no longer applies due to all the balance changes we've had since February. Please create a new thread if you want to discuss current balance issues.

Locking up.



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