The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (Full Version)

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He Who Lurks -> The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 8:44:09)

Why don't we add a 3-4 turn warm-up restrict on the skill? High strength Mercenaries that go first won't be able to stun on the first turn and than Berserker which will more than K.O an opponent. It's a small de-buff but one that doesn't seem to have any repercussions to any of the other game elements. Just would like to know what you think.



Nebula -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 9:02:36)

Small debuff? You call a 3 turn warm-up a "small debuff?" That destroys the build, not balance it.



He Who Lurks -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 9:07:28)

^Please explain how a 2+ turn warm-up destroys an extremely sneaky build in it's entirety.



Nebula -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 9:13:37)

Just gives the opportunity for a Strength Merc to get EMP'd and then have no way to use their skills.
In all honesty, I feel EMP needs a cooldown. It just destroys builds far too easily.



He Who Lurks -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 9:27:28)

Your being bias and blaming the elimination of a build on a single class without taking into respect the actions of a "build" not class, which makes the game not quite as enjoyable for the rest of the classes; Techmage, Mercenary, and Bounty Hunters. You cannot outweigh the priority of balance when this argument me and you have started is based off "Build v. equality for all classes". High strength Mercenaries are just one build that causes problems for all classes, you can only state that the only danger a 3 turn warm-up of mace-stun can cause is loss of energy due to a single class, and to put more it accurately, build.

I await your next response so I can address a few more problems.



8x -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 9:47:40)

I was using high str build for some time now and berzerker isn't really that great, I find combos like lvl 4 double + lvl 6 intimidate a lot more usefull.



xXx83xXx -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 9:50:23)

Maul; 1 turn warmup
Berserker: no warmup

Problem solved.



drinde -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 9:51:41)

Berserker without WarmUp does'nt help. Maybe jus put +1 WU to Maul...



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 9:57:42)

@ He who lurks

You are forgetting that in doing so, you are also punishing other non-strength builds that use maul. Moreover the whole point of strength mercs being a fast-kill build will be nullified with the maul warm-up.



He Who Lurks -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 10:06:16)

Maul is usually used as a last resort for players that incorporate it within their build, not only that but average strength mercenaries very rarely use maul. Again, we're talking about the priority of build v. classes.



saaaaaaaaaaaaa -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 10:32:28)

r u joking???!
there AREpeople who use it.
maybe just take away the defence ignore and put a WU or a CD



He Who Lurks -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 10:40:03)

Why are you putting so much emphasis on "ARE"? I never stated they weren't any. And also, so your saying that you agree with putting a cool-down/warm-up on Maul and your even contemplating about defense ignoring being removed? Indeed this would work well. Perhaps just remove defense ignore and add an extra warm-up to maul and stun than strike build would be less menacing. I acknowledge you sa.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 10:40:25)

...did you just say that the average strength mercs 'very rarely use maul'? That's completely contrary to the current situation. Maul then Berserk is the most widely used combination for strength mercs. Besides no other stun skill has warm-up, so it would be greatly unfair for one to be implemented for maul, especially since it is also the only blockable stun skill.

And what exactly is the priority of 'build vs classes'? That if one build has the capability to easily defeat other classes, it should be removed? Strength mercs actually have a lower win% than 5-focus mercs and bounty hunters, and support mages. Should all these builds thus be nerfed?

Moreover, using your 'build vs classes' basis, is it really fair to nerf a class just to nerf a certain build within that class?



helloguy -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 10:46:47)

Just because you keep losing to them doesn't mean you have to suggest such a stupid idea. 3-4 turns in more than enough time for any class to kill them. Next time don't make a thread if it's just going to be full of stupidity and nonsense.



He Who Lurks -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 11:15:59)

@Helloguy, Why can't we discuss balance without being so disrespectful towards each other? Helloguy, I'm without bias when it comes classes and I don't like to toot my horn, but I have one of the most unique and powerful builds to date in EpicDuel. What makes strength Mercenaries so OP'd is the ability to stun than more than likely have 100% chance to kill. Remember, when your stunned your unable to block.

quote:

...did you just say that the average strength mercs 'very rarely use maul'?


@Silver Sky Magician, I'm sorry for the confusion but by strength Mercenaries I meant Mercenaries with average strength, not necessarily trying to relate to high strength Mercenaries.

@Helloguy, of course because I lose towards them I want to work towards a better solution for all of us, it doesn't make sense to not find a problem within a gaming element, but than suggest a "fix" towards that gaming element.

@Silver Sky Magician, by the priority of builds v. classes, I'm talking about how balance could be greater to classes, than worry about one build that abuses strength to limit. It's obvious that Mercenaries are at an all-time high with strenght builds at the moment and nothing has been done to de-buff them. Smell the coffee and open your eyes. I've been in ED's community for a long-time and I'm smart enough to know that very very very rarely a player has been able to abide to one's logical argument, but I know the staff happen to have their eyes on the forum and it's nice to see them to put my suggestion in-game. I know how to balance EpicDuel as 3 of my suggestions have already been added, 2 of which have dealt with balance.

Your only argument is how one build shouldn't be de-buffed for the enjoyment of other(the other builds/classes of this game). We're trying to balance the game, not break it.

So far, my arguments seem to be the most valid along with several others and those who I feel just show favoritism. Feel free to continue discuss strength abuse with me. In fact, I though of a new signature thanks to you.

~If you have created a solution towards balance, and those who are against your solution simply state that it'd destroy the build in it's entirety, well congrats because it may be working.

Eh, I'll work on it (;.



button33 -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 11:23:17)

Explain this.
When mages had heal loop, everyone complained. They said mages are OPed.
Well now in return, we are complaining that mercs are OPed. 2 hit KO's are not fair.

So when we complain that mercs a OP, you guys say that they are not OPed at all. They just have a good build.
Let me tell you this. Anyone can make a strength build on a merc. It's a no-brainer.

So stop arguing and admit you are OPed, because everyone knows you are.



Nebula -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 11:30:05)

I'm just hoping Bounty Hunters don't recieve a 4th nerf this year...

Heal Loop Mages weren't actually OP'd, from my point of view, they were challenging but really I think people just didn't like the long battles. Now Mercs are causing battles to be incredibly short. Mercs are more powerful than most other builds but the annoying thing is that everyone just says "nerf them" and won't think of a good solution.



SCORPIOZZz -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 13:15:56)

Guys 1st i own str merces unless they get lucky az they have 28 support and they start 1st and stun other then that they are dooomed
2nd ( stop nerfing other and start buffing ure class ) if it gets a 1 more turn noth will happen they will just gun first and this would help them more they will like always get berzerker on rage so NOOO !!! bad idea !!




LunarWarlord -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 13:49:33)

i dont realy agree with that, they should put a req. they need to meet. like for bloodlust, you need 40 tech to max that out, they need to do that for merces. to control str builds, like they did with bounty hunters.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 18:32:29)

Stop trying to make this game unbalanced.Putting a require on that skill be unfair to non STR mercs while TM and BH get a no warm up stun ability.Not to mention if they made Beseker a 3 turn warm up then it would have to be unblockable and be just like Masscre and it would need to be a 4th tier skill to be balance with the rest of the classes so your idea fails.Come up with another one.



Light Stridr -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 19:00:14)

Give Maul a Tech/support requirement. Done.



goldslayer1 -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 19:12:42)

i guess someone doesn't understand what speed is.
with str merc u win fast but u also loose fast.
instead of complaining about str mercs being "OPed" make a build that can counter it. because as far as im concerned BH is more OPed than str merc.
wanna know how?
alot of bh can go at 90-95% winrate and be almost just as fast as strengh mercs while strengh mercs are mostly 80%, 85% if they encounter newbs who dont know how to play.
also how about the dex BH?
i seen dex bounty with 120-150 dex
they block every single time
not only do they block but they also tank, cause if u do hit them. its gonna be a weak hit.
it comes to the point where u can only kill them if ur rage attack hits them.
ohh and since they also have decent support they have like lvl 5 heals which can heal about 50-60 hp.
look at the problem from all sides before saying something should be nerfed.



zenix -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 19:25:14)

quote:

Original from Light Stridr
Give Maul a Tech/support requirement. Done.

Let's have a look.
Stun is at line/tier/level 3. Artillerie is also. Maxed Artillerie has a dex-req of 42. Now we give Maul a support/tech-req. Maxed also 42?
Now, looking at Str-Mercs, they usually have about 30 support or tech. If they had to raise this stat to 42, what would they lose? 3-4 Damage. Maybe 4-5 on Maul.
And then you have to consider that few Str-Mercs are maxing Maul, completely taking down this idea, 'cause losing 1-3 damage wouldn't matter at all.

These "Maul, Stun *muahaha* Zerk" Mercs are a Problem.
And these "Maul, No Stun ? *doesnt matter* Zerk" Mercs are also getting evil.
Maybe i'm just dumb not finding the right strategy, as my quarrel is currently the Tech-Bot-BB abusers. But the Str-Mercs are definitely a Problem - with a capital p - and currently growing up like out of everywhere.

Do we have a new "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" phase as we had with Heal-Loop? This is what it seems to me [8|]



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 22:34:41)

@ He who Lurks

I don't feel that you have directly answered my questions above. Could you do so again in addition to the questions below?

What exactly do you think is the problem with strength mercs? Is it their high win percentage, their too-quick kills, or the fact that once stunned, no one has a chance against them?

It's probably the last point, and I think that while most builds may not be able to adapt to the extremely unenviable circumstances, there are some builds that can. 5-focus mercs and high-HP support mages have reported to be able to easily defeat strength mercs. It's a more daunting task for bounty hunters if they cannot block maul, but I think that with high HP, bounty hunters could reflect the success of high-HP support mages in dealing with the strength mercs.

Moreover numerous other builds, as mentioned in my earlier post, have a higher win percentage than strength mercs, and quick kills are merely the defining characteristic of these mercs.

This brings us back to the question: what is the problem with strength mercs?



goldslayer1 -> RE: The High Strenght Stun Than Berserker Tactic A Bit More Balanced (3/26/2011 23:48:56)

quote:

This brings us back to the question: what is the problem with strength mercs?

there is no problem. is just that they dont like dying fast or winning fast.



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