RE: Epicduel -- Balancing the Battles (Full Version)

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Xendran -> RE: Epicduel -- Balancing the Battles (5/26/2011 17:52:50)

Goldslayer, this is my thread, and i already explained, FOCUS damage is not *changed*, it is *removed*.

Playerlevel -2 does not replace focus damage, it replaces robot damage. I'm not explaining this to you again.
First you say i made them too strong, now you say i made them too weak when in reality they are EXACTLY the same power as primaries and sidearms except some primaries and sidearms are +32 instead of +31.

And mages not wanting to raise their energy because of reroute? Maybe reroute should add a small amount of secondary energy then.

There. Is. No. Focus.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Epicduel -- Balancing the Battles (5/26/2011 18:08:30)

quote:

Goldslayer, this is my thread, and i already explained, FOCUS damage is not *changed*, it is *removed*.

Playerlevel -2 does not replace focus damage, it replaces robot damage. I'm not explaining this to you again.
First you say i made them too strong, now you say i made them too weak when in reality they are EXACTLY the same power as primaries and sidearms except some primaries and sidearms are +32 instead of +31.

well basically the lvl - 2 damage is replacing the extra robot damage. thats what i meant idk why ur taking it the wrong way.
but u never said anything about removing the robots extra damage range (the 11-15 on gamma bot and 10-14 on assault bot)
mathematically (if u exlained it right) if robot damage is every 4 tech + the robot damage thats already included + lvl - 2 damage. = too OP
if its just robot damage every 4 tech + lvl - 2 damage then its basically useless to use robot builds since ur cutting out 10-14 damage on it.

and i know there is no focus but the damage that focus gives atm, would later be replaced by lvl - 2 damage
i hope u understood that now



Xendran -> RE: Epicduel -- Balancing the Battles (5/26/2011 18:17:48)

Im not cutting out 10 to 14 damage, because i made it so it increases every 4 points of tech instead of every 5.
And i did say removing the damage range, read the first post in its entirety.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Epicduel -- Balancing the Battles (5/26/2011 18:21:09)

@xendran
well then by removing the 11-15
ur basicaly subtracing 5-7 damage on average. by adding it its increased by 5-7 on average.



Xendran -> RE: Epicduel -- Balancing the Battles (5/26/2011 18:22:01)

...And what's the problem with that? Considering you're no longer limited to 45 45 45 45 builds, you can have higher base tech if you want a robot oriented build

Every stat boosts a type of damage.
Every type of damage is 100% identical in their stat scaling.
Therefore: All weapon scaling is balanced. Weapon stats and base damage is a different issue, but the stats that power them in terms of damage modifers become equal.



od -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 18:22:56)

I think support needs a lil buff in your charts since primaries can be used every turn but auxes can only be used 1/4 turns



Xendran -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 18:23:33)

Auxes are offset by the fact that they're unblockable, they have drastically higher base damage and that their stat also increases healing skills.



goldslayer1 -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 18:24:31)

removing the damage range on every attack/def/res would be great that way theres a definetly no luck facotr by the rng
instead of 20-24 def it should be just 20
this way when u hit the rng doesn't screw u by having the enemy's larger size of the range do more defending making him survive by 1-2 hp.
and also people who dont know how to calculate damage get a better idea on how to calcuate



Xendran -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/26/2011 18:26:14)

I believe the damage range is a good thing, as it allows you to either focus on going for your max damage, or always considering the option that you might hit your lowest range and the enemies highest range. It adds a higher level of on the fly thinking combined with risk vs reward scenarios. all in all, more fun.

EDIT: Updated with Level-Scaling agility Beyond level 30.



gmurray -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/27/2011 3:18:22)

@Xendran this is my build if this happened
For Merc
Hp99
Mp45
34+6= 10-12
32+21= 19-23+ 9 +12
84+60=43-52
35+22= 14-17

Skilltree
m-1-m
1-0-m
1-0-0
2-0-0

Weps
Frostbane
Charfades Blaster
Eggzookas
Desert Marine p




Silver Sky Magician -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/27/2011 5:04:52)

@Xendran

Why is there a need to implement a 1-turn warm-up on assimilation? I understand that maul and EMP can completely ruin builds, especially if that player starts first, but assimilation's effect is more like causing minor chaos to the build. In terms of build-ruining, it is secondary to atom smasher, which was not given a 1-turn warm-up.



1999Rex -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/27/2011 5:31:57)

I had 1 look at that and was like, What is that. I will read it now. -.-

Still dont really get it...[8|][:-]



edwardvulture -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/27/2011 5:41:04)

So are stat dimishments still in place?



Polandor -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/27/2011 9:04:50)

I like the idea for stats, and the damage explanation of robot.

I would still like agility clarification with a Lv 33 example, with 94,110, and 120 hp.



tigura -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/27/2011 11:03:36)

Looks good to me :)



Remorse -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/27/2011 12:28:24)

I love everysingle idea made here , my favorite is the robot idea as it also allows a form of some penalty for using boosters to make it slighlty more even compared to those who dont, 100% support and i hope it'simplanted.



Xendran -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/27/2011 14:45:30)

Polandor: if you see the max hp values, what you do is you increase them by 2 for every level above 30. this way when there is level 50 we wont still be stuck with the same hp as today.



Polandor -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/27/2011 16:29:48)

I get it good idea, and it does scale well for level above lv33.

And it only a minor change that, would do a major change toward making the game more balanced.

P.S.
I would use the same agility HP for all 3 class. Since we are trying to balance the game.



Xendran -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/27/2011 16:32:48)

Classes with an odd number of hp simply cant reach even numbers so thats why its different



Thylek Shran -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/27/2011 17:30:44)

Here my thoughts about your suggestion Xendran:


Strenght:

Adding stun resistance and deflection makes strenght very overpowerded and weakens support alot.
Especially for Bounty Hunters with Shadow Arts and Mercs. Everybody would make a strenght build then.
Parting stun resistance and infliction to str and tech is weird enough and technically a problem.


Dexterity:

Making sidarms based on dex and parting them from strenght is a very interesting idea.
More logical would be tech because why should a gun make more damage when the
reflexes are faster ? Deadly Aim is the sharpshooter skill for precision.


Technology:

What is energy base and max ? Resistance ? Or binding the energy pool (mana) to tech ?


Agility:

Very low health points (<76) should give +2 instead of just +1 def/res or just set zero here.


Endurcance

Dont understand what this should be. A new stat that is bound to health points ?
It would also fit to stun resistance.


Minor Skill / Miscellaneous Tweaks

Maul: 1 Turn Warmup (Up from 0) good idea
EMP: 1 Turn Warmup (Up from 0) bad idea
Assimilate: 1 Turn Warmup (Up from 0) neutral
Block: Reduces 50% Damage (Down from 100) bad idea - Block is block so 100% but it could be adjusted to have min and max like deflection. (2%, 25%)
Critical: Ignores 50% Defense / Resistance (Down From 75) good idea



Xendran -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/27/2011 17:35:34)

Block to 50% damage ties it with Crit's new 50%, rages 50% and deflections 50%. It prevents dex from being overpowered.

Strength gets stun RESISTANCE only not infliction.

Strength builds would also now only have one superpowered weapon, and its blockable. Max strength would take away all their unblockables as well as their second damage type.
Also, you're assuming all skills get left the same. I have some tweaks to the more powerful skills that are goign to be updated fairly soon. This includes things like massacre and berserker. (No im NOT nerfing everything)


EDIT: Going to add the chances for luck rates soon



Thylek Shran -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/27/2011 17:41:29)

quote:

Strength gets stun RESISTANCE only not infliction.

I know and this would be a problem because stun is often used as anti-strenght.
Versus strenght builds and Field Commander.



Xendran -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/27/2011 17:43:45)

You make a valid point, now comes the issue: Which luck factor would it be switched with? Every other luck factor combined with strength overpowers it, and stuns arent all that common either way (stuns are exceptions to some of the luck factor rules due to the way they work)

EDIT: Strength builds will have to deal with their lack of ability to change to another damage type, making shields especially effective. They also have to deal with their lack of unblockable weapons. Incredibly destructive single element damage in exchange for lack of versatility.
A strength+dex build would be much better off, however they would not have obscene bonuses like the strength builds you are used to.



goldslayer1 -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/27/2011 17:57:33)

@xendran
then str/dex 125 hp BH will still be standing strong.
their dex will be high so they block and have strong side arm, and their reduces their chance of getting stunned
their tech is better than str merc's tech so str bh will have better chances at stunning, and its unblockable.



Xendran -> RE: The Epicduel Stats Balancing Discussion (5/27/2011 18:07:49)

goldslayer: thats not a problem with the stats, that's a problem with the skills, which is why im going to adjust some skills too.
ALSO: Dex and Tech have recieved minor damage nerfs in exchange for minor defense buffs

Technically with this setup, every class has 7 main setups:

1. Offensive Single Stat gouge. Sacrifices all defense for incredible damage. A glass cannon.
2. Defensive Single Stat Gouge. Allows very heavy damage and one very high defense modifier however lacks consistency as damage must wait to cool down.
3. Dual Stat Offense. Fairly strong and fast, some versatility. Uses Strength and Support.
4. Dual Stat Defensive. Tank and slow, some versatility. Exchanges power for defense.
5. Dual Stat Balanced. Uses a mix of an offensive stat and a defensive stat. Large amount of versatility.
6. Tristat build: Extremely versatile, leans toward either power or defense, capable of using large amounts of the skill tree. Sacrifices some speed and KO power for versatility.
7. Balanced Build: Maximum versatility, however has an extreme sacrifice in speed and KO power.

However, each of these common build descriptors can be tweaked and modified to fit anybodies tastes.

EDIT: Just an fyi as to why support seams 'weaker' than other stats, it's because support is a global Healing modifier which gives it defensive properties for every class. Healing is hard to handle because you cant just take intno consideration the value of the hp you get, but the fact that it also gives you opportunities to utilize your other stats. This is why i have support the way it is, it "supports" the other stats by allowing you to utilize them further by being a global healing modifier



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