INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (Full Version)

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Lectrix -> INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (5/31/2011 21:03:45)

Ok, this isn't funny anymore. My Tech Mage is growing restless; his armor's collecting dust and he longs for the thrill of a 2v2 duel. So why isn't he dueling?

Mercs are overpowered.

Before you Mercs all begin to complain and insist that you have your disadvantages (like Shadow Arts *eyeroll*), hear me out.

Mercs are overpowered, both in 1v1 and 2v2 (though Bounty Hunters keep their power in check, for the most part, in 1v1). But in 2v2, Mercs are clearly the dominant Class.

Mercs have dominated 2v2 for as long as I can remember (and I've been playing EpicDuel since the day it merged with Artix Entertainment). In fact, they've dominated 2v2 for so long that I don't even need to write up a new post from scratch; I have Quotes from previous Threads. The following is a collection of just a few of these Quotes, which, collectively, form my argument.

quote:

Funny, despite all of those Merc Nerfs, Mercs are still the most powerful Class in the game. After all, you guys don't have half of your Skill Tree restricted by a Class Specific Weapon Requirement


quote:

Let's take a quick look at our current, main Merc Builds: Support, Strength, and 5 Focus Tech. Support Mercs have devastating Auxiliaries; coupled with a quick Rage, they're far from weak, even without their Energy. Earlier, someone (I forget who) mentioned that Strength Mercs don't rely on Energy; it simply speeds them up. 5 Focus Tech Mercs are dependent on their Bots; with their tanking abilities, they can easily win a battle without Bunker Buster.


quote:

Mercs are the best suited Class when it comes to countering Bounty Hunters. Hybrid Armor gives them a passive Shield against Smoke Screen. Intimidate weakens Strength Bounty Hunters. "Skills" like Bunker Buster and Artillery Strike can't be blocked by Shadow Arts (Really, I'm getting sick of complaints about Shadow Arts. It can only give Bounty Hunters a 10% CHANCE to Block. The key word here is "CHANCE". Shadow Arts is certainly not as reliable as Hybrid Armor.).


quote:

"Mercs don't have debuff Skills"?!? That's why Artillery Strike, Bunker Buster, and so many of your other Skills are Overpowered?!? That's why all of your Builds work out perfectly?!? HAH! Do you think we Tech Mages and Bounty Hunters WANT to waste a turn applying a Debuff while you use your overpowered Bots or Auxiliaries on your first turn? Why don't we get Overpowered Resistance and Defense ignoring Attacks that can be effective without a Debuff? Why should we waste a turn?

I am DISGUSTED with Artillery Strike and all of your other mindless "Skills". Why should we have useless Multi Skills? Because we have Blood Lust or Reroute? Give us Hybrid Armor, and we'll happily trade in our Multi Skills. I'll even throw in Supercharge; who needs the pathetic excuse for an "Ultimate Skill"?!?


quote:

In terms of 2v2, Mercs have everything laid out neatly in front of them; Tech Mages and Bounty Hunters have a harder time finding a good Build. Clearly, we don't have Balance. If you still insist that 2v2 Mercs aren't overpowered, then please explain why there are so many Mercs in 2v2.


EpicDuel's a great game. But in a game so heavily based on PvP, Balance between Classes should be a priority. For those of you who can claim that we do, in fact, have Balance, then answer me this:

Why are there so many Mercs in 2v2?

Comments, ideas, and/or suggestions? What do YOU think?



StriderAigis -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (5/31/2011 21:04:43)

I feel like this topic ha been brought up like 1000 times already?



Hiddenblade -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (5/31/2011 21:34:05)

i agree mercs are OP when i spend 1 turn using smoke they can easily use bunker and easily crit 40 or more. then next turn i use aux,etc it mostly deflects cause of support. and then what? of course they use ARTILLERY STRIKE when mages and bounty's multi cant even compare to mercs, with all there support they still have an a attack there aux and aux does around 40-50. Mercs complain they dont have blood lust,reroute,etc its still HARD for us to defeat mercs. Because of there massive support mercs can EASILY heal over 50+ they dont even need to try they can outlast us,defeat us, and rip through our defences the OTHER classes need a buff.



RKC -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (5/31/2011 22:19:56)

Mercs mostly have un-blockable skills, can ignore some defense and has a small chance to crit. Hybrid armor is a pain, a merc can buy a energy armor and can apply hybrid armor at the same time, they can defend them self from both attacks.

When they have a gamma bot they can be defensive and offensive at the same time which is almost impossible to put down.

Intimidate can screw up any mid STR build (For me this skill is the most devastating skills of all)

They say that shadow arts is very advantageous but they rely on chance and mercs skills dont rely on chance they are sure hit skills.

I dont want to play a game that relies on chance. I'm a BH.



BlueKatz -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (5/31/2011 22:35:49)

This topic is always true so people never argue much about it :D



tigura -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (5/31/2011 23:57:06)

You mentioned this at the beginning of the post but Ill just add on. You said that BHs keep mercs in check in 1 vs 1. This is because of tech abuse. Mercs use 5 focus tech builds with great effectiveness. I find that as a mage, a high dex 5 focus build (and for BHs any build with moderate dex and SA) stops merc 5 focus builds by blocking 30 damage bot attacks. But in 2 vs 2 mercs rule. This is because art strike improves with supp, making mercs with supp abuse deadly in 2 vs 2



Luna_moonraider -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/1/2011 0:20:28)

^ deadly 2v2 support mercs but once they are out of energy they are like sitting ducks.



Lectrix -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/1/2011 0:22:02)

quote:

I feel like this topic ha been brought up like 1000 times already?

1001, last time I counted. And there's a reason for that... right? If Mercs aren't overpowered, then why does this topic continue to resurface, over and over again?

@RKC: Right; Shadow Arts gives you a CHANCE to Block. 10% chance to Block, or a guaranteed +12 Defense (or Resistance)? Gee, that's a tough decision.

@BlueKatz: The funny thing is that Mercs still seem to argue... and the Devs seem to be listening to their argument [>:]

@Luna: Tell it to the Auxiliary Weapon.. and the Rage Meter... and the insane chance to Crit, Deflect, resist Stun, etc...

Then again, 2v2 battles with Mercs don't tend to last long enough for Mercs to run out of Energy, do they?



goldslayer1 -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/1/2011 0:41:50)

quote:

Mercs are overpowered, both in 1v1 and 2v2 (though Bounty Hunters keep their power in check, for the most part, in 1v1). But in 2v2, Mercs are clearly the dominant Class.

if u looked at the daily boards a couple months ago, there was a BH doing 80-85% daily on the 2 vs 2 boards.
merc cant achieve that easily.

str mercs aren't as "OP" as u say they are.
sure we can get 40-50 wins an hour BUT AT 70-80% Bh can do that at 95%
mages "UP" more like the players not being smart.
when i was playing as a str BH 90% of the mages i fought didn't know how to use defense matrix right.
or the right time to heal. dont just blame the class the players have fault in it too.
and for support merc
an EMP will screw up ur art. therefor ur only good wep is the aux (has a 3 turn cooldown)
if ur smoked or malfed ur screwed if u cant finish ur enemy in the next 2 turns.

5 focus merc, well what do u expect? its 5 focus, 5 focus BH is more Op than 5 focus merc.
support BH isn't so bad either. both defensive skills can both be increased by support.
simple huge ammount of dex, 95 hp, the required energy 5 focus and the rest on support and shadow arts
and u got urself 95%+ 5 focus dex support bh. (beats the living fudge out of heal loop if u didn't know)

quote:

Mercs mostly have un-blockable skills, can ignore some defense and has a small chance to crit. Hybrid armor is a pain, a merc can buy a energy armor and can apply hybrid armor at the same time, they can defend them self from both attacks.

3 skills out of 12 isn't much unblockables. ill name more that are blockable. double strike, berserker, maul, intimidate, atom smasher 5 blockables and 3 unblockables. "mostly un-blockables" huh?


quote:

deadly 2v2 support mercs but once they are out of energy they are like sitting ducks.

yup thats EMP for u.

quote:

Intimidate can screw up any mid STR build (For me this skill is the most devastating skills of all

str BH still manage to win. any str bh with assault bot will win.

quote:

They say that shadow arts is very advantageous but they rely on chance and mercs skills dont rely on chance they are sure hit skills.

I dont want to play a game that relies on chance. I'm a BH.

3 of them are sure hit skills. 5 of them are blockables
strength mercs have to rely on the luck that u dont block them for the blockable skills.
and ur "chance" with shadow arts seems to be working alot, specialy in the 5 focus department.

quote:

Tell it to the Auxiliary Weapon.. and the Rage Meter... and the insane chance to Crit, Deflect, resist Stun, etc..

support merc vs support tech mages is a loss for the support merc. usually because the support tech mages will crit more on the support merc.

i played mercs as str bh, support bh, 5 focous strategic support BH, str 5 focus bh (works alot better than u think)

quote:

I feel like this topic ha been brought up like 1000 times already?

it has been brought alot, but alot of those people who bring it up weren't a merc themselves.
like those who say str merc is OP but they get 70-80% un like str bh that can get 95% at the same rate.



Wraith -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/1/2011 0:45:33)

Meh...I have a support build somewhere in Bat. Strat., see that and say mercs are OPed. Any build espescially STR ans sup mages beat me,



Lectrix -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/1/2011 2:30:20)

I knew you would be showing up sooner or later, goldslayer. *Sigh* I guess it might as well be sooner.

1. According to you, the Bounty Hunter was on the 2v2 Leaderboards "a couple months ago". Before (and after) that, I've seen only Mercs, Mercs, and more Mercs. But I don't care about the Leaderboards; they mean nothing to me when thousands of 2v2 Battles have shown me that there are way too many Mercs in 2v2. Why? Mercs are overpowered.

2. It seems like "Mercs mostly have un-blockable skills", because they tend to abuse their Unblockables more often than Bounty Hunters or Tech Mages. These Skills also tend to be highly effective... which is unfortunate, for those of us who have to think to come up with equally effective Builds.

3. Not the EMP Grenade argument again... I think I have a Quote for that too...
quote:

EMP Grenade basically uses up a turn, so that your opponent can perform a weaker attack; nevertheless, your opponent still attacks (AND increases their Rage Meter).

Some Mercs are carrying Energy Boosters these days. EMP Grenade --> Energy Booster means you both wasted a turn.

Also, since when have Tech Mages experienced a "quick Battle"? Their Battles are only quick when they're annihilated in two or three turns (usually by Strength or Support Mercs...).

Edit: You're forgetting the other advantages that Mercs gain with high Support, including decreased Deflection chance (increased in terms of defense) and increased Critical Hit % (decreased in terms of defense). Also, it is unlikely that an EMP Grenade will drain a Merc's Energy completely, leaving enough Energy for Skills like Double Strike, Field Commander, Intimidate, or Field Medic (and we all know how powerful a Support Merc's Field Medic is).

4. Intimidate isn't the only Merc Skill that can cripple Bounty Hunters.

5. With 3 Unblockable Skills AND 2 Unblockable Weapons (which you apparently forgot about), a Merc can easily win a Battle without resorting to Blockable attacks. If you Mercs are STILL complaining about Shadow Arts, you're simply having bad luck. Then again, I have bad luck almost every time I encounter a Merc. They Crit, Block, Deflect, Stun, ignore Defense, etc. Need I say more?!?

6. "support merc vs support tech mages is a loss for the support merc. usually because the support tech mages will crit more on the support merc." Ok, this one doesn't make sense at all. Why would a Support Tech Mage Crit more often?

7. 2v2 is Merc territory. I've tried, again and again, to survive in 2v2 as a Tech Mage. But if a Merc is involved in a 2v2 battle, I know I've already lost -- just because I'm not a Merc. And I will never be a Merc. NEVER. I've seen enough Mercs as is; for me to become a Merc would be for me to betray myself. I've seen enough Mercs to know that Bounty Hunters and Tech Mages are weaker than Mercs... but stronger in mind.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/1/2011 2:45:04)

The reason they seem strong because 2 reasons ,

1)
quote:

"Mercs don't have debuff Skills"?!? That's why Artillery Strike, Bunker Buster, and so many of your other Skills are Overpowered?!? That's why all of your Builds work out perfectly?!? HAH! Do you think we Tech Mages and Bounty Hunters WANT to waste a turn applying a Debuff while you use your overpowered Bots or Auxiliaries on your first turn? Why don't we get Overpowered Resistance and Defense ignoring Attacks that can be effective without a Debuff? Why should we waste a turn?


We realy waste 1 turn with debuffs , they have % ignore % critical skills that hits same or higher without a debuff(1turn waste) , Also the ridiculous thing is bunker buster has 20% def ignore + 25% critical chance , i can understand the % ignore but why there is crit chance??? Simple tech abuse build hit too much.

2)Mercs have 0 useless skills , Hunters has VenomStrike,Multishot and Mages has Supercharge,Plasmabolt,Bludgeon,PlasmaRain as useless skills.What is mercs useless skill??? None they can use all skills with different builds.



jegaggin -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/1/2011 4:14:13)

STOP SAYING MERCS ARE OP. I'm sick and tired of people saying we are OP -.-. I think I believe people who say we are OP have never used mercs properly, for long periods of times through the ups and the downs. I also believe that most people who say we are OP in 1v1 are wrong and right. Against tech mages its pretty strong, against bounty hunters we lose most of the time. (if you use a physical hitting build).



MrBones -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/1/2011 8:44:27)

How about having only one character classs and force people to have the same built.

You are all mad



Xendran -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/1/2011 8:46:34)

^Irrelevant. You don't seem to grasp the concept of balance. Also, you yourself are a mercenary.



DillBagel -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/1/2011 10:05:46)

Bounty Hunters are still the most effective 1v1 killer. I have BH and Merc varium players.



jegaggin -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/1/2011 10:18:07)

seeeeeeeeee^ proof -.-



The Shadow Dragon -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/1/2011 10:41:15)

In non-varium term's, then yes, it is extremly overpowered

In varium term's, its balanced.

My point is: Varium's are OP, Merc's are OP. Fair enough.

Not varium? Then you can call it OP'ed.

My solution would be change some of merc's skill's (Especcaly Alitery) to dex improving skill's (Would work great with

Slayer) And nerf Varium's ALOT. I mean, nonvar's havnt gotten anything since march

And before any merc's flame this, ima support merc myself. So there's no need for flaming.



Luna_moonraider -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/1/2011 10:41:50)

@ turkish

yes we do not have any useless skill. hmm them wat i blood shield in my books it is kinda useless cause we have hybrid. Also again i say this a simple emp makes mercs not able to use their super skills.

@people who thinks emp does not stop merc

u guys should play a merc and vs a super tech bh with strong emp, strong robo,strong smoke and throw in a few points in sa. 1) mercs will be forced to use thier unblockables and remember unblockables comes once ever 3 turn. 3 turn is actually enuf to kill a merc with gamma bot when he/she is smoked.



PD -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/1/2011 11:16:05)

I'd like to see some actual Skill Value numbers supporting the idea that mercenaries are overpowered before coming to said consensus.



spectra phantom -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/1/2011 12:22:10)

merces have many useless skills and we dont have debuff skill

uselss skills:

doubles strike
maul
atom smashe
blood shield

AND NO DEBUFF SKILL!



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/1/2011 12:26:10)

Yes this is very true.

@Spectra Maul(20% Defence Ignore and 40% Stun Chance),Atom Smasher(Takes energy based on STR high STR equals high energy steal) and Double Strike(More % of extra damage) are useless you say? Say that after you face a STR Merc. BS is very effective if you need extra res for you or your partner in 2 vs 2. None of those skills are useless.



ajs777 -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/1/2011 12:31:26)

lol spectra no debuff skill????? try intimidate....you know... that skill that lowers STR
anyway maul and atom smash are very VERY useful if you use then right, i agree DS is kinda lame, but blood sheild is VERY effective if your about to die in a 2v2 and you sheild your partner



Firewallblast -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/1/2011 13:38:48)

OMG!!! I am tired of all of these threads please state what skills are too good. Personally I've seen only a few mercs with BS and especially Intimidate. Atom Smasher is 2nd compared to all other energy away skills and bh's can achieve a good lvl 10 atom with a lvl 1 emp. U say hybrid is unfair i think blood lust and reroute are on unfair bloodlust is perfect for str bh's any one with a brain could c why str bh's are betr than str mercs. Reroute gives u an endless nrg supply so ur never left without nrg. Hybrid is only for defense since as far as I'm concerned u can't change what kind of shield u want b4 the battle. Bludgeon useless 2 reason y it isn't 1) When a merc actually switches hybrid u have bludgeon and a robot to support u 2) some ppl don't no the power of bludgeon with an str mage. Artilery Strike is OP and so is Bunker with the right build I use atom smasher it works wonders on these builds really an emp would destroy them. Mages UP?!?!?!?! I blived that a couple months ago but now I see the truth they are not UP they have comeback and are only worsened by the fact that some ppl still live in the past and say mages are UP because of no heal loop instead of making builds. Also Lectrix u just confirmed u have nvr been a merc so u can't really prove ur points with base in fact. Also none of u are going to listen to this and probably find comebacks to all the points I just made and then when this becomes unpopular another thread will be started and ill post this again...

Helloguy I hope u dont mind but Im going to quote u. Oh and heads up this is a mage.

quote:

In the beginning of this month I class changed for the first time. I became a BH, I loved being a BH but then realized that focus BH's struggle allot. Support BH's have LONG battles.

I became merc about 2weeks ago so I can get slightly more wins in Juggernaut, and I realized BH's can really pack a punch even when it comes to support merc. Support merc or MOSTLY only good at 2vs2 or 2vs1.

And of course I was mage for over a year. Being a Mage is as much trouble as being a Merc or BH. Mages are limited to many builds as for Merc and BH's have MANY MANY successful and fun builds. I made an AMAZING Multi shot build for BH's. All I did was spam dex max out Multi,Bloodlust, And shadow arts. There's NOTHING to it, I used common sence and it won me the juggernaut badge. I did about 900 wins in bounty and the rest in Merc. :) the game is balanced (Between Variums)

Now with Non-Varoums,it's another story.



Tiago X -> RE: INJUSTICE! (In other words, Mercs are Overpowered) (6/1/2011 14:37:24)

Now, try to face a 5 focus dex like me. >:D



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