If this was a Nerf, then pigs can fly. (Full Version)

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Nexus... -> If this was a Nerf, then pigs can fly. (7/14/2011 23:39:13)

...and here is why:

Alright so let me summarize this balance update:

CYBER HUNTER: Is pretty much the same. 7% more then before really is not going to make that big of a difference. (CH needs another passive just like every other class in the game has one.)

TACTICAL MERCENARY: Got a small nerf. One of their passive needs to be taken away in order for the class to be anywhere near beatable. (A small decrease in poisen damage/frenzy % and a club requirement is not acceptable)

BLOOD MAGE: Got nerfed in amidst a failed attempt to make it slightly better. (One of BM's key skills was taken in the process)


Conclusion:

The developers did not implement ANY of the suggestions players have been giving. They spent more then two weeks preparing a balance release, and we got some minor tweaks, some of which hurt the already weak classes rather then helping them.

In the future the developers should go to the community for answers, as it appears there testing team of 6 can't get the job done, or at least hasn't got it right yet...

Discuss what your expectations were, compared to what the developers ended up doing. Is the kind of "rebalance" you had expected? Doesn't it seem like the developers are a bit shy to nerf/buff any of the classes? Why could this be, and why did it take them two weeks to release such minor tweaks to the classes?

EpicE4
**Note** Please no flaming. If you have a problem with what I have written hear you may express it analytically. That is you may provide a reasonably detailed response as to why you feel I am wrong, and how you are right. I don't want to see anything like "TLM was nerfed, now quit your complaining."




Laces -> RE: If this was a Nerf, then pigs can fly. (7/14/2011 23:55:23)

It did not turn out to what I thought it would be..mainly because I didn't expect balance in this update as we were told what changes were going to be made as testing was progressing, but that didn't happen. This was a pathetic 2 weeks. They definitely need to goto to the community more as we know better then them because we play the classes for a longer period of time, while they code and release content. They are not fully to blame as they can't play the classes for a long time to figure it out. Yet they to need to take more suggestions and actually listen to us. Titan nor NW has posted on this forum (Other then the announcement section) for a long period of time as Cindy can't explain everything to them. They need to do so to understand how we feel about this and how to get it done right. But I believe the main reason why they took 2 weeks is to make sure what they were doing was right, which in theory is the correct thing to do, but they failed. So again, they are not fully to blame for the bad balanced "acts" but they need to do a better job of coming on the forum and physically looking at what we post with their eyeballs.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: If this was a Nerf, then pigs can fly. (7/15/2011 0:03:26)

I think it's better to slowly acclimate classes towards balance rather then fly right off the hook and overdo it. The update was a *small* step in the right direction. Also, Reflex boost > Assimilate but they should find a way to work both skills into the class. But it clearly didn't "hurt" the class. Reflex boost is an excellent skill. And Static Charge needs to be passive, then the CH class will work.

@Laces If you haven't already please read the "Old forum vs New" post by Nightwraith. It will help put the "community" thing in perspective.



Mohandas Gandhi -> RE: If this was a Nerf, then pigs can fly. (7/15/2011 0:06:01)

Please do not flame the Devs, they did everything in their power to satisfy all three parties. Let's not judge them, they did a wonderful job here.



mehmehmehmeh -> RE: If this was a Nerf, then pigs can fly. (7/15/2011 0:08:54)

quote:

Please do not flame the Devs, they did everything in their power to satisfy all three parties. Let's not judge them, they did a wonderful job here.


Yes they did.

I especially love your way of giving supporting details on your well written essay.



Nexus... -> RE: If this was a Nerf, then pigs can fly. (7/15/2011 0:11:14)

Can't agree with you here Giras. The longer they wait, the longer an extremely OverPowered class can ravage this game. Its pretty obvious (in my mind at least) what needs to happen given the response from the community. One of TLM's passives needs to be greatly nerfed or taken away all together. Hybrid is to powerful a passive to be paired with another. That is why Mercenaries only have one passive in the first place *derp* Also, reflex is a fine skill but not in a strength build. Assimilation is easily as useful in a strength build, if not more useful, because it is based on strength and has the ability to take away an enemies heal or main attack. Also, Nightwraiths explanation really wasn't that great of one at all. If they don't have the time to check the forums and respond, and take our ideas into consideration, they need to hire more staff. I agree with you about CH though...


EpicE4



Baron Dante -> RE: If this was a Nerf, then pigs can fly. (7/15/2011 0:12:48)

quote:

The longer they wait, the longer an extremely slightly OverPowered class can ravage this game.


Felt the need to fix that.



Ashari -> RE: If this was a Nerf, then pigs can fly. (7/15/2011 0:23:28)

@Giras: Yep, the idea wasn't to overdo it from the very beginning. This is just the start of the balance adjustments, and there might be more coming very soon, possibly early next week once the effect of these changes are seen in full effect.

Reflex Boost was added to Blood Mages to add some flexibility to their builds as well as provide some Physical Defense. From the start, Blood Mage was pigeon holed into a single type of build. They didn't really have an alternative to Strength builds. Having an offensive class is a nice idea, but in practice it didn't work out so well. Blood Mage still needs some work -- it lacks a real cohesiveness as a class, but that's something that can hopefully be fixed over the next week or two.



Nexus... -> RE: If this was a Nerf, then pigs can fly. (7/15/2011 0:24:29)

quote:

The longer they wait, the longer an extremely slightly fairly OverPowered class can ravage this game.


Can we agree on that? Reroute + Hybrid + Poisen make it a bit more then "slightly" in my opinion...

@Ashari
Why did it take you guys two weeks to start releasing these tweaks? If things continue this way we might have a resolution by christmas....maybe. I don't understand why you couldn't have released these tweaks a week ago and then been ready for another round of tweaks by today.

Whatever.

EpicE4



Giras Wolfe -> RE: If this was a Nerf, then pigs can fly. (7/15/2011 0:30:55)

@Nexus Oh, its you!

I think I understand better now why assimilate was a good skill for the class. But the class has three dex based spells. Just replace one of them with reflex boost instead.
Unfortunately, you're gonna have to wait a few weeks for that now. Depressing.

I actually agree with you here. Eliminate hybrid armor from the class and give us a physical version of blood shield instead (reflex boost or defense matrix would work fine, too.) Then restore frenzy to how it was before the update. As a tactical mercenary, I would be perfectly happy with such a fix.



Nexus... -> RE: If this was a Nerf, then pigs can fly. (7/15/2011 0:33:28)

^

That sounds fine with me :) Glad we agree.



edwardvulture -> RE: If this was a Nerf, then pigs can fly. (7/15/2011 0:38:00)

^Yes Blood Barrier is gaining popularity



Remorse -> The Balance Update, What should of happened (7/15/2011 0:39:35)

This is what happened!
quote:

Tactical Mercenary

* Frenzy now requires a Club and healing effect is slightly reduced.
* Toxic Grenade's Poison damage reduced by 2 to put it more on par with Venom Stike.

Cyber Hunter

* Static Charge's effect increased by 5% at each level.

Blood Mage

* Blood Mage's Assimilate replaced with Reflex Boost to provide them with a means to improve defense and blocking.
The effect??
-Cyber hunters still useless,
-Tac mercs still Oped,
-And blood mages are nerfed when they needed a buff...

This is what should of happened

Tactical mercs
- Hybrid is now swapped with defence matrix. OR:
quote:


Tactical Mercinaries: Replace Hybrid Armor with "Blood Barrier," and restore frenzy to it's former state.

Blood Barrier: Sacrifice HP to increase Defense an equal amount for 5 turns.
Level progressions:
1: 5 HP to DEF
2: 7
3: 9
4: 11
5:13
6:15
7:17
8:18
9:19
10: 20 HP to Def
......IDEA BY : Giras Wolfe

Cyber Hunters
- Ethier: 1. Hybrid swapped for Defence matrix, OR 2. Static charge becomes passive with Lower conversion %s

Blood mages
- Reflex boost is swapped with overload and plasma cannon instead of having bonus chance to crit now has bonus chance to stun (so they have a stunning move)
The effect ??
-Tac mercs seperated from the orignal mercs Giving use to the orignal class and makes the Oped combintaion of high HP tanking plus heali looping harder
- Cyber hunters get a decent passive that can always be used each battles
- Blood mages arent crippled by removing their mana drain making them the only class without one..



bighobbo -> RE: The Balance Update, What should of happened (7/15/2011 0:40:48)

Blood Mages would still be underpowered. They need a big buff in my opinion, and this is coming from a CH.



Remorse -> RE: The Balance Update, What should of happened (7/15/2011 0:44:37)

^ hmm, ho about deadly aim requirements are removed?? fair enough??

Or! How about Shadow arts swapped for deadly aim between Blood mages and Cyber hunters?



Giras Wolfe -> RE: If this was a Nerf, then pigs can fly. (7/15/2011 0:44:57)

^Oooh, I like the name! However, I think the skill should be more like +20 def at maximum for -20 hp, so it would be useful at both low and high levels.



Buffy A. Summers -> RE: The Balance Update, What should of happened (7/15/2011 0:46:30)

Most Level 33 Tac Mercs Are Currently Using Delta Maul (Club). So That Requirement On Frenzy Is Not A Big Deal At All.

This Update Was Only A Minor Tweak At Best.





Remorse -> RE: The Balance Update, What should of happened (7/15/2011 0:48:44)

^agreed !



king julian -> RE: If this was a Nerf, then pigs can fly. (7/15/2011 0:52:21)

blood mages got what they wanted a defense ability and look now they have 2 stat boosting moves!!!!!! Thats a rely good buff in my eyes.



TTG Sean -> RE: If this was a Nerf, then pigs can fly. (7/15/2011 0:52:55)

LOL King Julian You OBVIOUSLY Don't Know Mages.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: The Balance Update, What should of happened (7/15/2011 0:53:59)

Here's my two cents:

Tactical Mercinaries: Replace Hybrid Armor with "Blood Barrier," and restore frenzy to it's former state.

Blood Barrier: Sacrifice HP to increase Defense an equal amount for 5 turns.
Level progressions:
1: 5 HP to DEF
2: 7
3: 9
4: 11
5:13
6:15
7:17
8:18
9:19
10: 20 HP to Def

Cyber Hunters: Make static charge passive, at a reduced %. I'm thinking 30-35% at max.

Blood Mages: I agree with remorse's suggestion, except do you REALLY need a stunning skill? Not all classes have a boosted % to crit skill, why should they all have a stunning skill? Leave plasma cannon as is.

The effect: as remorse said.



king julian -> Becareful what you wish for. (7/15/2011 0:55:15)

IM hearing conflaming about assimilation being taken away well look blood's did get what they wanted a defense ability and now we have 2 stat increasing moves and 1 improves the OTHER this was a fantastic buff the dev's gave them.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: If this was a Nerf, then pigs can fly. (7/15/2011 0:56:42)

^That is, he obviously doesn't know *blood* mages. But yeah, you really need both skills.



TTG Sean -> RE: Becareful what you wish for. (7/15/2011 0:57:27)

They Put Reflex in on the Wrong Skill.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: Becareful what you wish for. (7/15/2011 0:58:35)

You guys should look into a high support reflex boost followed by technician build. But BMs should keep both skills and bump off an annoying spell instead.



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