RE: The Gap (Full Version)

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Deimos... -> RE: The Gap (8/7/2011 23:42:30)

In aika everyone has a chance.



xxomegafaustxx -> RE: The Gap (8/8/2011 0:08:39)

@Count von Tilly

I'm glad that you feel that way as I also harbour the same feelings towards varium users who chant mechanically "yes, nonvariums can compete: all they need to do is this and that and then poof! Problem solved, get used to it". In the line of reasoning and thinking in this context, it is trivial and sometimes imporper to impart one's feelings and emotions into the equation of logic. But as yourself, I am in a state of dissent. Nonvariums are becoming towel rags, discarded again and again on the floor for the sole purpose of free and easy wins. We're being ignored so greatly that it is hard for us to compete in the platform varium users have created and ecologically coincide in a competition for healthy selectivity.

They point they are not considering is that it is a hard life for a nonvarium player. To understand, here's another analogy.

ANALOGY The way I like to think about it is, if one could envision in their mind a cart a horse and a man, nonvariums could be represented as horses pulling it whilst while the horse performs its duties, is lashed several times by its wealthy owner who continually maltreats him. The man known to ride the cart uses varium (the whip) and uses varium to slowly injure the horse until the horse can no longer sustain itself or the man he is pulling. The cart represents the community of players both the horse and man are socially contracted to as both must go in the same path of development to reach their destination. They are going to a specific destination that rewards them and where both can find fulfillment. But as he continues to lash the horse, he doesn't understand the animal's suffering because he himself is not a horse. Enraged, he tells his horse to move faster and is angered by the horse's incompetence, telling his horse he is feeble, weak and that it should be stronger. He tells his horse also that there are very few horses that are weaker than him and that the horse should aspire to change, evolve and become better to the man. But the problem with the man's reasoning exist this very standing flaw. You can't change the horse's ability to pull the cart but the man must CHANGE his! Instead of abusing the power of varium, lessen it (lessen the GAP), give the horse more breathing space to move and time to recuperate.

Also consider for those who have a dog, how do you teach him new tricks? By yelling and screaming to the dog jump and do a somersault off that table? By hitting him constantly, punishing him to do a certain thing? No, the owner, if he/she is smart and enlightened becomes the dog, understands the dog's level of understanding and begins by doing the trick him/herself. The owner literally becomes and acts like a dog for the very sake that the dog can understand how the trick is executed. A good owner does not punish or abuse the dog rather, slowly teaches him by acting the part out for the dog. The dog learns from the constant repetition of the owner and learns the new trick. Similar to varium users, what I see now is "Do this and that and this!" which isn't going to help the dog in anyway. To be successfully, both must UNDERSTAND EACHOTHER ON THE SAME Level! Like the owner of the horse who should understand the horse's suffering and the owner of the dog who must literally "become the dog" to teach it new tricks, we must take these steps as a community so that we can develop !

And what does it mean by UNDERSTANDING AT THE SAME level? It means that varium users understand the suffering of the nonvarium community; that they understand how it feels like to be a crummy nonvarium and get trampled everytime by over-powered varium users and feel that they share the same responsibility of the dog and horse. In most cases, owe the horse and dog and apologize.

Only till then can both find satisfaction. Only then will the cart move faster and allow for the community to flourish based on friendship and understanding and the owner be pleased by the dog's faithfulness, loyalty, and it's ability to learn and be playful.

Judging the horse just because he is weak isn't helping the horses as a community. Initiation in the form of being emphatic and understanding towards the nonvarium race are vital and crucial steps to maintain this delicate relationship: that is the cart-horse and man analogy. This is also true with the dog, you must understand it's capacity to learn and must gradually help it. Here's another quote you should consider:
quote:


We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done. ~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Kavanagh, 1849


It's funny how many of us nonvarium users have commented it to be very difficult. I myself I commented a number of times. But how many users, players and peoples does it take to change a varium user's mind?! (no pun intended)

But with the same crowd of varium folk judging our weakness and faults actions and ignoring our dissent, its even harder to get this message across. Ever heard the phrase "Actions speak louder than words"? It means that actions and words are required to create healthy communication. Verbally, you say we are weaker but have not taken any action to remedy this problem. How is maintaining a spacious gap between nonvarium and varium players going to resolve our weakness? So I challenge you, take action and stand up for what is right!

If varium users could understand this very very simple analogy, I faithfully have rested my case.

Off Topic: Haha, you'll do fine on the actually test. I'm sure you'll manage lol.

And yes, I am also considering many things in my Career. I thank you for your praise in my writing skills but I feel that I still need to improve. To answer your other question, I don't play ED as actively as I do. I've help other nonvariums improve their build and socialize with my friends. Other than that, I don't have the same drive for playing this game. It was greater in my youth and now, I find it just unfair. I also feel that kids just like me and adults should not be ripped off on this mere flash game, spending close to $100.00. That's a serious laughing matter. It is also true I am spending too much attention on this petty game and that I'm wasting energy on this but untill have burned every ounce of brain to contend with this matter, I'm not gonna give up. And if this does become a losing case, I will resign my knowledge for those who can't see enlightenment.

@Deimos

Funny you should say that. In ED, the chances are very miniscule. It's impressively less miniscule for a nonvarium player as myself. Either I purchase varium to compete or get crushed ever single time. But as I stated, it should never be the case! Varium is a voluntary option! In AQworlds or Maplestory, do you need to buy and buy just to compete and enjoy the game? In Aika which I would believe to be a very successful game, does one need to purchase features that will enable them to compete? If in Aika, everyone is given a chance, why not. . .and I stress WHY NOT ED?

Am glad that you brought that up because it's totally opposite to the current ED situation. It's crystal clear in my eyes.

~I Favour Rationale and Reasoning
"Anonymous Lv.33 Nonvarium Mage"

And if you haven't, to users of this forum, please read my posts prior as I have made conscientious regard to this issue.





Sipping Cider -> RE: The Gap (8/8/2011 10:43:53)

So here is the big problem:

How to close the gap, while still getting the same amount of varium purchasers or getting even more varium purchasers?

If the gap in battle gets closed between varium and non-varium, then people will have less incentive to purchase varium since purchasing will not give them as much of an advantage. Of course, one thing that might happen could be that more free players might start playing and give the Varium's more of an elitist feel instead of just being yet another varium purchaser. Currently, I would say there are more varium users than non-varium users at levels 30-33. When ever I fought at these levels with varium I fought other varium users most of the time and I did not feel as special for purchasing, since it seemed everyone else had.

If the gap were to close even just a little, lets say credits become easier to get, then many more non-varium players would start playing and pretty soon the varium players would find themselves swamped with many non-varium players which would mean more battles against non-variums which should mean more wins and thus lead to more satisfaction. Unfortunately, this still does not solve the problem of getting people to purchase since the have not felt that satisfaction yet and with a gap close they would see that they can already beat varium users.

When there is a possible way to get the same amount of purchasers while closing the gap, this will be the only way for the gap to close, unless Epic Duel becomes an advertisement sponsored sight so they would want as many people to play as possible but I think the decision is not up to them but up to Artix Entertainment.



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: The Gap (8/8/2011 13:04:27)

im going to bring up some numbers here becuase numbers are what i do best
Most common Varium gear ATM
Delta *insert name here*
Tesla Armor
Eggzooka
Stun cannon
total stat value=114 stat modifers

Best F2P stat giving gear i can find that works on one class
Caden's Wraith
Imperial Mage
Marauder Boomstick
Overlord Cannon
total Stat value=85

now lets get down to the average player
Average Varium has full enhanced gear so there average stat value with that gear stays at 114
Average F2P has 1-3 Enehancements total so if i remove all enehancements points but 2 on F2P gear the total is 61 Stat modifers total

so lets so some simple math
114-61= 53

So the average Varium user has 53 more Stat modifers which is equal to 13.25 levles they also have 2 more Defence or res which is equal to another 2 levels so all in all a Varium user has 15.25 levels on a F2P



od -> RE: The Gap (8/8/2011 13:10:15)

^ actually, a var player can get 114 stat boosts using the gear you showed, so the gap would be more like 15 lvls.



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: The Gap (8/8/2011 13:12:26)

thx od i did all the math in my head and i guess i dropped 10 somewhere so i prolly forget Delta enhancements all fixxed now



xxomegafaustxx -> RE: The Gap (8/8/2011 14:24:07)

@theSunguardian

*Before reading this post, please read post 68

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=19419689&mpage=3&key=�



So, you pose a very interesting question: How to close the gap, while still getting the same amount of varium purchasers or getting even more varium purchasers? Well such an answer is simple.

As you already stated in your post, having the GAP smaller will provide more incentive to old and new players alike as it creates a ecology for each to successful compete. Seeing that you are a varium user yourself, you have noticed that the competition begin to steadily raise. And voicing your opinions, you have quoted that it doesn't make you "feel special" rather, assimilates you in the moreso identical varium crowd. So why is this the case?

The incentive is created within the users of the community to compete in the PvP atmosphere. Of course, lessening the GAP will make varium users weaker but won't weaken them enough to compete healthily! And even so if such would be implemented, lessening the gap, they will still have the upper edge in battle (being always 4 or 5 levels higher) in comparison to the fully enhanced nonvarium player. And if there is a surge of more nonvarium players, the incentive is much greater! And why is that? I would argue that it doesn't make the incentive much smaller but it enlarges it because naturally, people want to be rewarded and special amongst the average population of users. This only occurs in a larger community and not a smaller one and as you stated yourself, value a feeling of being "special" or unique than the average.

Of course on would argue that if the GAP is smaller, the incentive to purchase is smaller because nonvariums would not feel the need to pay if they can compete with varium players. But I want you to think outside the box; I want you to think about ED's future as a community and not just yourself. And what does that mean? It means that in term, varium players will develop and evolve as well as a community. And I would argue, with more players coming into the ED platform, more would want to purchase varium to obtain that slight edge against the average. This is all because a community's strength lies in the numbers within it that support the game, not just a minority of varium user who continually undermines it's development. How is it that in just one year, ED has had the same amount of peoples playing it whereas AQworlds, after one year, has soo many!

That is because they value free players as well. The incentive to purchase should derive from one's ability to choose to be "special" amongst the average or remain average. In due time, if more players come with a smaller GAP, the likelyhood of varium purchase is much greater as more and more people come into the game. Look at AQworlds, you don't have to pay money just to compete, you can stay as a free player. But there are many out there who want to feel and be better; thus, they purchase such features. I would also argue that AQworlds has as much users who purchased such features to the users who have not.

As of right now, the incentive to purchase varium is not to compete but to survive. Being trampled as a nonvarium player, it is hard to survive because of the huge stat marginalization created by the GAP. Because of the GAP, less players come in which seems to amplify a greater difference between the amount of varium users in comparison to nonvarium users. And since varium non longer is the voluntary option of a player to enjoy the game but survive as a character, the incentive to continue and enjoy the game gradually diminishes over time. THAT IS WHY ED HASN'T AS A GAME DEVELOPED! Even with the intro of soo many features, the amount of users has been the same, even after Alpha and Beta!!

For once, I would like to see all servers full for a change. The only way this can occur is to lessen the GAP.

And I want to draw the very same cart-man-horse analogy again so that it sticks in this forum.

For the community to develop, the horse and the man must work together. What many people don't realize is that in actualization, it is the horse that is pulling the community via the cart instead of the man! That is simply because the horse should be also valued: strength also derives from the free players who provide incentive and monetary challenge to the higher tier players. Strength derives from a community of players who avidly support their similarities and not their differences.

Which also brings another interesting fact: Name one flash online game that is comparable to ED in term of price? Price in the form of how much is required to be essentially spent to compete and enjoy the game's platform? Name one game or any game that exceeds the $100.00 spent by varium users or requires players to purchase money just to compete in the game's atmosphere. I'll put $200.00 bucks on the table and bet you no one can answer this question correctly.

And after a few moments of waiting, I resign and take my money back. The reality is, no one can win my bet because sadly, ED topples all game's to be the most "EXPENSIVE FLASH GAME TO COMPETE" for the average American. Perhaps even the most expensive game for the elite and average varium player just to compete! Or perhaps, the most expensive FLASH GAME IN THE WORLD!

Look at World of Warcraft: Amazing graphics and visuals and a challenging PvP Atmosphere for only just $15.00 a month! It's quality in comparison to ED's flash game is far more superior and less expensive as the money purchased in the game can sustain itself whereas Varium in ED can't. Also to add, a game such as World of Warcraft highly is successful and continues to gardner the support of many avenues around the world as seen by many playing the game daily. Exampled in another flash game is "Stick Arena" where for a player, it only costs them a mere $5.00 a month just to unlock a plethora of features! ED, since all the features are literally chained with each other and the price is usually on par at $50.00 or more. Which also raises our attention to AQWorlds, ED's big sister, which has an amazing amount of players marketing more people to come in the online multiplayer frenzy.

So how does this relate to the question: How to close the gap, while still getting the same amount of varium purchasers or getting even more varium purchasers?

Because with less nonvarium users coming in, it creates it harder for the higher class to constantly compete. I don't need to be a genuis in "supply-side" and "demand-side" economics but the fact is very simple.

With more nonvarium users, the price of varium becomes cheaper to provide incentive for a majority people to spend on the game. The demand for varium is greater, and. . .
With less nonvarium users, the price of varium becomes larger because the demand of varium is much smaller and the incentive to provide for a majority of players is totally different. It is different because currently, nonvariums are out of the picture because they themselves can't compete! Which correlates to an increase of price of varium as the elitist must keep in "cheque" more and more varium spending to compete in the PvP atmosphere!

Hopefully you get this, I'm not going to repeat myself again.

@One Winged Angel1357

Thank you for providing such a statistic. If you don't mind, I'll be using it as ample substance for my future arguments.



Thunder Lich -> RE: The Gap (8/8/2011 14:32:36)

Everyone has a chance but nonvariums are waaaay behind in stats and power.



redxtra -> RE: The Gap (8/8/2011 15:38:31)

like this is the only game where F2P ppl cant compete against P2P
i can name so many games where the gap is so perfect between F2P and P2P

aqw members, the most they get is the use of pets and access to member enhancements which are just a lvl higher then non-mem. ac user and members get access to more weapons and items that non-mem cant.

S4L AP users get access to new armor and colors and stronger weapons but also non-ap users can get the same out of a random box that any1 can use so no1 is OPed or anything

but in this game like u have to buy varium everytime a promo offer comes out, new weapons pop in the shop, events, and for LQS just to keep up with the action. i mean whats the point of having F2P game if u have to pay to keep up with every1 else. like when ever they do raise the lvl cap theres gonna be more weapons and probly another promo in which P2P ppl are gonna break their neck to get.which widens the gap even farther. because a non varium player has less weapons to buy in the store alrdy like once u hit lvl 33 theres nothing u can do if ur non-var because theres only like 2 class weapons for each and then a few swords ,swords and aux.



Sipping Cider -> RE: The Gap (8/8/2011 15:49:50)

@xxomegafaustxx

You brought up another good point that gave me an idea. If the gap were to close, would people actually stop purchasing? My answer to that is no. Varium players will buy more varium for that two extra stat points, that one extra damage, or that extra 5% chance to stun. I myself have done this, and have seen lots of other players do it. So even if there was not much of a gap, then I wonder if the income for epicduel would actually change. My thinking is that those who purchase need little incentive at all.

As for this being a very expensive game, I agree it is spending. However, it needs to be spendy for it to function (server costs and food for Devs so they work hard). And with World of Warcraft, the $15 dollars a month price is the minimum, but if you want all the awesome features you buy expansions and upgrades and stuff. So in a way, that $15 dollars a month is the free players compared to how much money can be spent on it. One thing that I would like to see is the Compeititive life of a weapon so when you buy a promo it stays competitive for a year at least.



Cinderella -> RE: The Gap (8/8/2011 17:26:45)

@Faust- I've read though all of your walls of text, I think you could have gotten your point across in many fewer words. Speaking concisely will benefit you greatly in the future.

I agree that we need to tighten the gap between premium and free players, but from my perspective, whenever we release credit versions of premium items, or even bring free items closer to premium items, it turns into a huge nightmare for us. So, keep in mind that there's a challenge for us on how to close this gap while not alienating our premium players.

The planned balance changes will go toward tightening that gap, but they're not the be-all-end-all solution to balance.



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: The Gap (8/8/2011 19:17:02)

@Faust not a problem man thats why i post stats so no one else has to figure it out



xxomegafaustxx -> RE: The Gap (8/8/2011 20:19:37)

@theSunguardian

Of course and I entirely agree with you. What many varium users don't realize is that lessening the GAP will provide greater incentive. Greater incentive for both varium and nonvarium users and enjoyment to play the game. Take it for example, Flath who used to play ED. A prominent varium user and perhaps the best among during his time. Fast forward and he's not playing any more. Exampled by his inactivity, it can also show a growing disinterest for the game. My founder in my faction has been currently inactive for a period of 88 days (no joke) and surprisingly is a varium user. The ED community as a whole has not grown in the period of one year! It has still been the same in spite of the features the game has developed to "entice" newcomers. However, the newcomers of ED will soon fall victim to this GAP: Either one must commit to stay competitive or purchase varium.

Yes it needs to be spendy to provide the ED team and the developers but the incentive for varium purchase should be voluntary and not forced. In world of WarCraft, one can remain a "free user", enjoying the game's platform and not ever unlock premium features. Here on ED, the incentive is moreso the only alternative to survive in the platform as the competition between both free players and premium players is so largely augmented.

@Cinderalla

First off, thank you for "tanking" my lengthy posts. I'm trying my best to condense my arguments but sometimes I find it lacking in substance. Other than that, I'll aim for shorter posts and try not to use too many analogies.

Of course in your position, it is hard to implement and introduce new features because they are constantly being subject to criticisms on both sides of the spectrum of the ED community. Even if the majority avidly support such a release, there's always going to be the crowd who dissaprove of it. As you stated prior, there exist a challenge for how you close the GAP while not alienating the premium players. But if you read in my earlier posts, I have stressed greatly how the nonvariums are being alienated as a community. Of course you as a moderator and developer would worry about the premium users as they give you capital and money for making new releases and such. But if you only focus on such users and not the nonvarium users, you would do yourself a disservice. And I don't need to explain myself: If you need another reading look back to both the horse and worm analogies.

And it's not the first time that this "alienation" has happened. It has happened far back in the early stages of Gamma.

I totally agree that there is "not going to be-all-end-all" solution to balance. As I said earlier in my posts, I stated that lessening the GAP is just one step and that we as a community need to take multiple steps! So I'm not blaming the devs, or course it will pose as an immense challenge. But it's not the devs that must feel this way, it's everyone who plays this game.

Other than that, I completely go for you. If I was a developer or mod of this game, I would have shared your opinions 100%.






IsaiahtheMage -> RE: The Gap (8/8/2011 21:58:48)

@omega I completely agree with you I had to stop reading some of your post a page back because it was hurting my eyes. I aplogize for not reading it all but I am sure you are still trying to get the same point across. I admire your constructive and intelligent rage. Lol. Its good to see Cindy has responded to your post. Like you said as a Non-Varuim everything is fine once you hit level 27 and 28 it becomes a fight to survive. You eitheir because of frustration quit or you give in to the GAP and become a Varuim user meaning one less Non-Varuim in the higher levels. I am a lvl 32 TLM I am ONLY getting by with all the Varuim users because I am a Oped class. Without TLM I would be totally destroyed by all the high lvl varuims running around. Like I was before as a regular Merc that is when I use to mostly NPC to survive lvl 27 to 30 and above.



edwardvulture -> RE: The Gap (8/8/2011 23:06:19)

Tbh I only read 3 or 4 of omega's posts, I mean I ain't reading dis much for a computer game. If I could tell all the f2ps something, J'd say drop out of real battles at level 25. Come back when your level 31 and NPC during power hour.



xxomegafaustxx -> RE: The Gap (8/9/2011 0:27:43)

@IsaiahtheMage

I completely feel your situation. I also thank you for your praise on my reasoning and intellect but in all honesty, I'm merely stating simple facts. My arguments are just a bunch of statements cohesively tied together to prove a solid rebuttal. Anyone can do it and you can also.

You speak it crystal clear. It's hard for the nonvarium and varium communities because both must survive in ecological imbalance that the GAP has created. And why is this so? It is because for a nonvarium user, it is simply a struggle to survive and a poverty to compete amid the higher leveled varium tier. And for varium users, it is a struggle to prove victor amongst the higher crop of players who have essentially made it harder and harder to compete. It is because of that, varium users must adopt different builds and classes which translates into alot of money spent. I don't have to be a varium player to understand their situation; that GAP is enough evidence to tell me so.

@edwardvulture

Well, at least you read 3 or 4 of my posts; there are those who just glance at it and give it the cold shoulder. And you don't have to read all of it, if you get the point then at least, both me and you are satisfied.

Of course for f2ps players, you can give them the suggestion that yea, farm during power hours and don't enter real battles and so forth, you should do this and that to win to become successful. But doesn't that totally detract from the PvP platform experience? The gamer should not be obliged to follow such a path of action and feel that, to be successful, they must return to embracing a daily ritual.

In the mind of an average nonvarium it's more like "Yea, can't really play 1v1 so I'm gonna NPC. Once that's done, maybe 2v2 and 1v1 a little little during power hour. I'm gonna freak out if I see another uber varium user because it's been the "up-teenth" time and I'm gonna lose anyways. Now, to farm up those credits. . . or get varium-the easy way out"

Edward, a user who plays the game shouldn't be compelled to do certain "chore" in order to remain competitive. This results into boredom and lost of interest in the game. Also, the user should have freedom and not be necessarily be pressured to remain competitive in the PvP atmosphere. Being competitive is a choice: you can play more and farm more and get the best equipment and whatnot.

It is the build, the skill and expertise of the player that are the instruments of how one can compete, not how much time they spent or money on the game. Of course with time, one grows with more and more experience. But that experience should translate into one's ability to compete. It shouldn't undermine or compromises it but rather reinforce it. The best builds and unique builds should be rewarded; not just those who purchase varium.

And also to add, I am a nonvarium mage and I understand where your line of thinking derives from. But I rarely play this game anymore because there is no incentive! Yea, I can farm during power hour and then, after facing 10 NPCs and beating a couple people, I get easily bored. And to topple that, if I ever need to farm for credits, it's the same ordeal! I go only during power hours and after monotonous battles, lose interest very quickly. Even the varium user might feel the same way too.

All I'm saying is to enjoy the game, one doesn't need to feel the urge to follow a set of actions-it's a personal obligation. And if you do tell all the f2ps like myself drop out of the real battles and do so forth, they're gonna miss out on the PvP experience! How bout if they don't like playing a crummy computer that talks trash and garbage all the time and want more from the PvP platform?

Edward, I'm going to say it again. The enjoyment of the game should not be forced, it should be creative. Was ED meant, as a nonvarium player, to be played with a computer?

But you are right, nonvariums must take that course of action. And it is because of that, they will no longer do 1v1 or 2v2ing as much as they did during being lower than a lvl 25 because they are forced to take such action. Such play results into a less enjoyable interface to the user.

To be honest with you, I was a level 25 who used to 1v1 all the time, up until I hit 26 I felt totally intimidated by the varium crowd. I was FORCED to play 2v2 which I disliked. It has made me go to a different avenue to ultimately be successful despite of my urge to enjoy 1v1ing. And after 5 lvls of very boring 2v2, forcing me to change my build nd constantly change it to be a "breadwinner" in 2v2, I reverted back to 1v1. I spent a lot credits for this change and during that period in time, I was really unhappy with the game's platform.

Why, because in order to remain competitive, I was forced to do something I didn't like to do. Edward, how about those who enjoy real battles? How about those players who want to battle 1v1 but are too weak to because of the large gap between nonvarium and varium players? I never liked 2v2 and I feel that all nonvariums feel the same. At one point in your life, you probably could no longer 1v1 and had to 2v2 because you lost to the varium crowd easily.

And you 2v2d because you hoped that the odds would be with you and not against.

I ask you, as a nonvarium user, has that brought you any satisfaction? To me, it didn't. I didn't like to be forced to remain competitive but that was my personal obligation. Either I lose all my matches to 1v1 or accept my destiny.

The GAP has essentially chocked the opportunities of nonvarium users who are limited to compete. Seeing that you're a nonvarium user,are you ever bored of fighting like 20 NPCs a day and losing to varium folk? You may win some seeing that you're a great nonvarium player but think about the less nimble nonvarium players who are less fortunate than you. And if so, how many nonvariums like us, are willing to commit to this arduous ordeal?

How many nonvarium players at the rank of commander or warlord or even emperor prowl through the streets of ED? It's a rarity.



edwardvulture -> RE: The Gap (8/9/2011 0:55:16)

^It wasn't always like that. f2ps had a shot in real battles before enhancements, and thats what i did to level up. I enjoyed 2 on 2. I can't say that anymore because my alt (POW3R) gets sucked into juggernauts and yes I become forced to do NPCs.

But the thing is I can compete, just have to reach cap and enhance some and get the best rares.



xxomegafaustxx -> RE: The Gap (8/9/2011 1:07:55)

But Edward, look at the big picture. Of course after enhancements, nonvariums became a tad bit stronger but it is because of it, has enlarged the GAP because varium users can do it likewise on a larger scale. In my 20-so 1v1 battles I do everyday, the typical nonvarium opponent I encountered below 30 would have no enhancements whatsoever, didn't even have updated armour or close to very low grade armour and a horrible horrible build. Sometimes, even starter weps!

It also takes time, enhancements don't happen in a day, it happens in months of farming. You can do this because you are commited and accept the difference between nonvarium and varium users. For the average nonvarium player, he doesn't know what he's up against: he doesn't know what to enhance it, when, what to get, what are the best weps, etc. Because you have way more experience seeing that you played early Beta, you totally mesmerize their limited knowledge on builds.

You can't compare both the two. You have been playing for a far greater time whilst they have only been playing a couple days. How do they know what to do and what's good for them? Of course you may add, that if they lose, they will learn from experience. But it takes a lot of losing to realize that your build isn't the breadwinner and few players, when they lose soo soo much, become discouraged to continue playing. That's why rarely, you see nonvariums who continue playing at lvl 33.

It takes time to reach your level of understanding because you've been through it all but to the average nonvarium newcomer, they haven't. I'll bring what Ashari said again about this issue, hopefully you see where I'm going with this discussion:

quote:

The first problem is the difficulty in getting to that veteran non-Varium level. New players rarely manage their credits wisely and by the time they reach the 30s, they are usually very broke. Fully equipping a non-Varium character with the best equipment and buying max credit Enhancements takes a very long time. This uphill climb is only made longer by the losses they face against Varium players who can immediately get the best equipment. This just leads to many players getting frustrated and quitting before they can gear up to become competitive.


And just to add, think about it as when you were a complete noob before. When you first started the game. When I did, I had a terrible castor build, with an overflowing 70mP and horrible defenses. It took me about 500 loses just for me to realize that the build really sucked. For the average nonvarium folk you're giving advice to, they don't fully understand what it means for them to become competitive. When I reached lvl 30, I began to realize that and is was only because a varium player said that I had extra stat points in my build.

Stat points? I had no clue what I stat even was at the time LOL.



Ashari -> RE: The Gap (8/9/2011 1:13:19)

quote:

ORIGINAL: edwardvulture

Tbh I only read 3 or 4 of omega's posts, I mean I ain't reading dis much for a computer game. If I could tell all the f2ps something, J'd say drop out of real battles at level 25. Come back when your level 31 and NPC during power hour.

And that's exactly the problem right now. With the large population of level 30s and higher, once you hit level 25 you hit a wall. Those levels shouldn't be a walk in the park to get through, but they also shouldn't force people to resort to farming NPCs for 5 levels in a PVP game.

Anyway, you don't need to keeping ironing in that there is a problem omegafaust. It's pretty clear that the gap is too big at the moment. [;)]

What I'd like to hear is what Varium players feel is a fair advantage to have. As Cinderella said, it isn't easy taking away the advantages that Varium players now feel they are entitled to. If the gap is made too small, then players will feel that their Varium isn't worth it or that they were cheated. If it's too big, we have this problem instead.



xxomegafaustxx -> RE: The Gap (8/9/2011 1:27:58)

@Ashari

Haha, well first off I've been using your quotes overboard in almost every single one of my posts. So if I haven't, I want to thank you for allowing me to use your evidence with much flexibility.

quote:

Anyway, you don't need to keeping ironing in that there is a problem omegafaust. It's pretty clear that the gap is too big at the moment.


Well yes it is big lol and its good that a least we have reached some solid agreement on this issue. But it hasn't reached the skull of many varium users or supporters of the GAP. And yes, the GAP should be optimum providing enough difference to distinguish the performance of a varium purchaser from the nonvarium user who should obtain an advantage. But like I said, the advantage shouldn't compromise the ability of a nonvarium to compete.

All I'm asking for, and I'm sure the nonvarium community as well, want is a 20 stat point difference and no more. It worked in Alpha and early Beta, and why not now? I don't remember and varium users complaining, they were still at the height and peak of their powers.

And that's just one proposal, I'm sure the forum will spew with many.

@edwardvulture

My apologies for going overboard on your last two posts. I probably overlooked your sympathy for nonvarium users who enter the platform.You're looking out for them and at lest, are proactively giving advice to them to face this trauma; to face this GAP. Likewise because of your posts, I have drawn new inspiration from them. I'll continue to elaborate more concisely and will consider your thoughts more thoughtfully. Hopefully, you too shall do the same.



Sipping Cider -> RE: The Gap (8/9/2011 10:30:43)

quote:

What I'd like to hear is what Varium players feel is a fair advantage to have


I think I would be ok with an extra damage from primaries, extra 3 stats from equipment, and then more in-game specials. As for enhancements, I think that system needs some work on it but for now I would like 3-4 extra enhancements. Of course, I might be considered one of the more non-varium wing variums, as some of my favorite characters are non-varium.



jegaggin -> RE: The Gap (8/9/2011 10:51:32)

i believe you should be able to do as many npc battles as you want but they wont count in your 1v1 battle stats. I think thats a good compromise. That means people will be able to cruise through those levels and get to have a real fighting chance at variums (or more of)



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: The Gap (8/9/2011 11:30:22)

Im going to call a flashback to say 1 year ago
one year ago on my main i was an avid 2v2 user, mostly becuase i saw i had like 300 2v2 wins and almost 1K 1v1 wins, so i took off down the road of fighting as many 2v2's as i could in a single day and many of those days i was ranked between 5-10 on the daily leader boards for 2v2 wins and for a F2P TM to be up on those boards was interesting becuase alot of Varium users were bigger bigots then now and i got called some nasty things.

But the gap was not as large as it is today and useing the Exact same gear i use right now i used then, maybe thats why im getting the crap beat out of me, if i tried to go for Daily 2v2 tomorrow i would most likely go unranked and possibly without more then 20 wins from a days worth of fighting to show becuase of the power those Variums have, that 14.5 levels i calculated earlier, and then the power difference of a Merc/TLM over a mage it all leads to a show of Variums power in this game.

Someone somewhere will eventuly say F2P's should evolve or die as it is the motto of ED but in this case it is not Evolve or Die its conform or die. Or the other personal favorite NPC from 26 to 31 which is a total of 35400 EXP and if you discount power hour and only fight NPC's your level or lower that would take 2950 so pretty much every F2P at lv 31 would be a hero with no real skill to show for it.



Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: The Gap (8/9/2011 16:45:09)

I will say this is goes to my vote as possible "Threads of the Year" It addresses many issues of the true balance problems and the hidden challenge of a game that has little non-pvp varium features.
I want to thank everyone who had posted on this very sensitive topic.

xxomegafaustxx , you put much heart and care into your postings here. I believe and feel when these issues are addressed with system that is full balanced from lvl 1 and equally for each level there after, this game will gain a real following.

Sadly, most players who play will stop at lvl 25-28 due the varium stat overload, and loosing with no chance in competing.

I will add this thread as supplemental information to a thread I created with small amount of feedback due to not many knowing an answer or secretly enjoying the difference in non-varium/varium status.



xxomegafaustxx -> RE: The Gap (8/9/2011 17:18:08)

@LambO *In the post from "Epic Duel is Unfair"

Sadly you're not seeing the point of this.

And if you thinking "paying was a whole lot better", I as a nonvarium player decided not to take such a path. Why? Because to become competitive, I have to pay. It shouldn't be like that, varium is a voluntary purchase and should never be forced. In AQWorlds for example, do you need to play to remain competitive? You can stay as a free player for as long as you want and never be PRESSURED to play.

Please read my articles in "THE GAP" to gain a greater sense of enlightenment.

@IsaiahtheMage *In the post from "Epic Duel is Unfair"

You hit the nail on the coffin on this one. And I like to further add that yes, the game may have restrictions in terms of the age category and whatnot or "advised to be 10+ or older", but one's age should not correlate to one's ability to play the game! And in greater rationale and sense, also how one enjoys the game. An adult or a teenager can find this game on the same scale for enjoyment as an adolescent teen 10yr-old who finds the same very game appealing. And this is interpolated only because you have kids like me and adults playing the ED interface. The ED game was not "exclusively" built for and older audience. It may have "targeted" such an audience initially but does not have the power to necessarily engage individuals who are older and younger that want to play just because they find entertainment in this game.

And let me add, it's not the age of a person. Arguable, it's how much one has the chance to experience the game's platform. Everyone can testify to this to: Everyone who starts the game was a complete NOOB at first. That is because we didn't understand the mechanics of the game fully that were appreciated in the game's platform. For a older and matured individual, they can experience the change faster whereas the younger individual who is less mature may not. But what I'm saying is that both can evolve and adapt in the game's platform and it is through time and experience that they can compete in the PvP atmosphere.

Let me add that experience defines how one can compete but not entirely. But in the case right now, the person who is a complete Newbie doesn't understand why he is punished because of experimenting or fully experiencing the game's platform. The average nonvarium player below lvl 30 can't foresee the struggle and unfairness ahead in the higher levels and continues what he's doing. And he's not ignorant, it is the game's platform that has created such "ignorancy".

And this happens in every game not just ED.

@JZaanu

First off, thank you for your support! But I would have to say that you're threads are much profound in knowledge. I have drawn much inspiration from many of your rational arguments which has truly benefited my skilsl to justify my contentions. So, I'll be sure to vote your threads as the best of the year as each of them are truly enlightening.

Yes, I plan to spread this message. What many don't understand is that like nonvarium players, they to are victims in this ecology for competition. They are competing against the too higher elite players forcing them to stay competitively, they must purchase more and more varium. Other thatn that, I totally 100% agreed to what you have said and spoken.




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