RE: The Gap (Full Version)

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AQWPlayer -> RE: The Gap (8/13/2011 14:30:24)

@Digital X
I can imagine your gun damage doing ??-??+33+10 damage and your aux doing over 20+38 damage o.O




Isabella -> RE: The Gap (8/13/2011 14:50:00)

In all honestly, i like to use a mix of varium and non-varium items :)

-tops of battle leader boards for today :)-




Synbad Syndicated -> RE: The Gap (8/13/2011 16:20:16)

I remember holo repeatedly asking for some form of intensive farming for high level gears as they do in aqw. so why not replace the requirements of varium and expensive amounts of credits with tokens for enhancements. seeing as how enhancements breaks the game unfairly for those who play.




Digital X -> RE: The Gap (8/13/2011 17:03:55)

@AQWPlayer:

Gun: 12-15 + 33 (+9 in battle due to Deadly Aim)

Aux: 21-26 +38




edwardvulture -> RE: The Gap (8/13/2011 18:15:47)

Ok. We have to stop posing these "situations" where a non-var beat a varium, because even if you did, you stand no chance against a full-fldeged strength abusing TLM.

I'm talking about
26-32 +33 primary and decent defenses WITH high life.




frogbones -> RE: The Gap (8/13/2011 18:19:31)

Exactly, Edward.

That is the most OP build in ED right now, slightly ahead of The Wall builds.




Shadronica -> RE: The Gap (8/13/2011 19:09:23)

Everyone should be able to afford to enhance all the weapons and armor that they buy. So much emphasis has been placed on enhancements it has become the most pivotal problem in EpicDuel. It has caused a huge socioeconomic status gap which should not be so blatantly obvious in a game for children. I beg the developers to go back into the think tank to come up with a better solution to fix at the very least this one problem.

If everyone could afford to enhance all their gear it would not only provide a fairer game for all but would allow us the freedom to experiment with different builds and weapons therefore providing more opportunity for creativity once again.




Isabella -> RE: The Gap (8/13/2011 19:32:50)

So assuming they dont have varium, ED should hand enhancements to non's for free? i mean u can already buy them for credits.

i wish i could get everything handed to me on a silver platter




Shadronica -> RE: The Gap (8/13/2011 19:52:48)

I don't mean that they should be handed out for free of course Isabella but I don't think that the current format with the enhancements is fair on anyone ... varium or non varium ... since the enhancements have only increased the "gap" and caused anxiety to all.

To me a game that places so much emphasis on the rich and famous does not belong in the category rating that this game is. Children should not be subjected to feeling like third rate citizens of any community and in particular for an internet game which is meant to be fun.

Of course varium players should be expected to have an advantage too but not in the way that has become so elitist.




frogbones -> RE: The Gap (8/13/2011 21:22:39)

I was able to enhance all my gear on my Tac Merc alt, as well as being able to get the Assualt Bot. Unfortunately, I am one of the very few f2p who is able to do that.

Therefore, I 100% agree with Shad. If it were easier/cheaper for Non Variums to enhance all their gear, this would significantly shorten the distance from one side to another across The Gap.

If I could "like" your post, I'd spam it all night!




kwj3 -> RE: The Gap (8/13/2011 21:42:49)

^ I would've liked your post, but this isnt FaceBook


Enhance ments for credits at the first time 3k credits= around 900 1v1 matches at lvl 33 with all wins at regular credits

Enhancements for Varium for the first time 50varium= not even a dollar $$$

Why dont they make it around 500 credits for the 1st one and at least 5000 on the 10th one
Now we save money and you can go think of a new stuff people would probably waste varium on, or at least make some hardcore items that cost varium.












One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: The Gap (8/14/2011 11:53:54)

Srry ive been offline for afew days time to rejoin the fun

@Civic the Gap is 15 levels thats alot from my Varium standpoint and my F2P standpoint


@Shad if the price was dropped and the average F2P would be lessened by like 6 levels into the more managable form of 10 levels between us which would be great




Mumba -> RE: The Gap (8/14/2011 15:15:05)

I think that the price for enhancments should go down. I have a non varium acc and varium acc, the gap between non varium and varium is massive its very hard to get credits. People say arcade but when im fighting strength and support abusing tacts its impossible to get credits.




One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: The Gap (8/14/2011 16:12:34)

Ive put alot of thought into this over many alts(it takes a Day to a Day and a half to get to lv 20 on an alt)

and heres my finding you can get the money for Enhancements IF all you do from lv 10 till your token broke is arcade with a really cheap 1v1 build(Hybrid/Max Plasma/whatever works for BH) and IF your really lucky in the arcade other then that its rather hard to get teh money for current max enhancements at high levels besides the incredily boring NPC farming everyday all day




Joe10112 -> RE: The Gap (8/15/2011 5:30:58)

I find the Credit Price for enhancements is ridiculous...I mean, 3500 credits for one slot? And only 50 varium in comparison?
1 varium -> 70 credits? if I buy varium, I'm totally using this exchange rate and blowing 500 varium on 35k credits. That's a great deal I think.

The gap is getting bigger and biggger...becuase variums don't spend too much varium and enahnce their items to the max, while nonvars don't enhance at all kuz its too costly...




TurkishIncubus -> RE: The Gap (8/15/2011 13:13:23)

The Gap With My Perspective


I read most of the posts and i wanted to make this post about how i see the gap and how it should be.First of all i like to speak with numbers , cause numbers give the reality unlike words , words can be deceptive.

I want to start with the stat gap , i think there is not remarkable difference."What you think?" Lets see:

A Full Varium Player With Rare Weapons: Eggzooka(27 stats) , Stun Blaster (27 stats) , Delta Destroyer (36 stats) and Founder Armor(26 stats) in total 116 stats.

A Full Varium Player Without Rare Weapons (removed only Rares , Limited Rares are included):
Frost Cannon(22 stats) , Charfade's Blaster(26 stats) , Azrael's Bane(34 stats) and Bunny Borg(24 stats) in total 106 stats

A Full Varium Player Without Rare and Limited Rare Weapons: Frost Cannon(22 stats) , Azrael's Bane(34 stats) , Frostbolt Blaster(25 stats) and Desert Marine(20 stats) in total 101 stats

A Non Varium Player Without Rares or Limited Rares : Carrierzooka(21 stats) , Marauder Boomstick(20 stats) , Mjolnir (31 stats) and New City Guard(18 stats) in total 90 stats


Lets Do The Calculations:

The Maximum difference a Full Varium and Full Non Varium is 116-90 = 26 stats : The Varium Player Should Have Founder Armor which is Ultra rare and also has to get atleast 3 - 10k Varium to get those weps. It makes 150 $ at minimum , so 150$ for 26 stat diff "XD" ridiculous this is a 2D Flash Game (no offense Devs) and the player payed atleast 150$ to get only +26 stats?! they should give the win directly to the Varium Player "XD"

What if 2 players start playing ED today ( i assume that they can reach Seasonal Rares) : Ok! , lets do an experiment imagine that 1 Non Varium with unlimited credits and 1 Full Varium with unlimited varium started playing ED today , The stat difference will be 101-90 = 11 stats "funny" the difference between a payed player and a non payed player is 11 stats.

Now i assume you convinced that there isnt a stat gap between Non Varium and Varium player.

The Real Reason Of Weak Non Variums


1)I belive i proved there isnt much gap between Varium and Non Varium in "Lets Do The Calculations" but there is still a problem , they are still too weak :/ , Why?! , Why they are weak ?
In my opinion the first reason is reaching 90 stats is very very difficult. To reach 90 stats a non varium player should have 307,105 credits "WTF" , if we take an average non varium plays 60 wins(if he/she cant do or dont have time to do 60 wins per day than he/she never be successful and we dont need to discuss this) a day it makes 160 days ":S" which means half of a year.
In my opinion there is nothing wrong in here.In half of a year an average non varium can be almost equal to a varium player but "when i think like a non varium" its seem much difficult and varium players keep winning also 10 varium players can defeat me in a row than in my opinion most non variums become angry and quit from ED or dont keep their 60 wins per day.

(The ones dont give up can be like : JariTheMighty , New Hope ( she is also 1st in alltime 2vs2) , Woochi and many more ... )

2)Non variums dont have weapon variety , to reach 90 stats a non varium cant do a good build ex:Str build or Supp build , the weapons i choose to make 90 stats realy cant form a good combination.

Example: If a Non varium Merc wants to do a supp build he/she can have max +36 in supp with high requirements but a varium player can have more than +50 and variums dont have much requirements.

Benefits and Harm of the Varium:


  • Gives small stat advantage (max: +26 min:+11)
  • Gives time advantage (a non varium should play 160 days to have +90 stats but a varium player can reach +101 stats in seconds)
  • Having more variety in Weps
  • Having less requirements
  • Too expansive for a 2D Flash Game



Benefits and Harm of the Non Varium:


  • Need to play much
  • Lack of variety in weapons
  • High weapon requirements
  • No money spent

    Reasonable Buffs for Non Variums that i think:


    • Reducing Prices of Credit Enhance
    • Releasing more non varium items


    Note: ik that i said i will not write to this thread again but i wanted to clear my ideas from arguments that i made with other ppl , also this seem more clean and understandable.




AQWPlayer -> RE: The Gap (8/15/2011 15:26:43)

quote:

The Gap With My Perspective


I read most of the posts and i wanted to make this post about how i see the gap and how it should be.First of all i like to speak with numbers , cause numbers give the reality unlike words , words can be deceptive.

I want to start with the stat gap , i think there is not remarkable difference."What you think?" Lets see:

A Full Varium Player With Rare Weapons: Eggzooka(27 stats) , Stun Blaster (27 stats) , Delta Destroyer (36 stats) and Founder Armor(26 stats) in total 116 stats.

A Full Varium Player Without Rare Weapons (removed only Rares , Limited Rares are included): Frost Cannon(22 stats) , Charfade's Blaster(26 stats) , Azrael's Bane(34 stats) and Bunny Borg(24 stats) in total 106 stats

A Full Varium Player Without Rare and Limited Rare Weapons: Frost Cannon(22 stats) , Azrael's Bane(34 stats) , Frostbolt Blaster(25 stats) and Desert Marine(20 stats) in total 101 stats

A Non Varium Player Without Rares or Limited Rares : Carrierzooka(21 stats) , Marauder Boomstick(20 stats) , Mjolnir (31 stats) and New City Guard(18 stats) in total 90 stats*

Lets Do The Calculations:

The Maximum difference a Full Varium and Full Non Varium is 116-90 = 26 stats** : The Varium Player Should Have Founder Armor which is Ultra rare and also has to get atleast 3 - 10k Varium to get those weps. It makes 150 $ at minimum , so 150$ for 26 stat diff "XD" ridiculous this is a 2D Flash Game (no offense Devs) and the player payed atleast 150$ to get only +26 stats?! they should give the win directly to the Varium Player "XD"***

What if 2 players start playing ED today ( i assume that they can reach Seasonal Rares) : Ok! , lets do an experiment imagine that 1 Non Varium with unlimited credits and 1 Full Varium with unlimited varium started playing ED today , The stat difference will be 101-90 = 11 stats "funny" the difference between a payed player and a non payed player is 11 stats. ****

Now i assume you convinced that there isnt a stat gap between Non Varium and Varium player.

The Real Reason Of Weak Non Variums

1)I belive i proved there isnt much gap between Varium and Non Varium in "Lets Do The Calculations" but there is still a problem , they are still too weak :/ , Why?! , Why they are weak ?
In my opinion the first reason is reaching 90 stats is very very difficult. To reach 90 stats a non varium player should have 307,105 credits "WTF" , if we take an average non varium plays 60 wins(if he/she cant do or dont have time to do 60 wins per day than he/she never be successful and we dont need to discuss this) a day it makes 160 days ":S" which means half of a year.
In my opinion there is nothing wrong in here.In half of a year an average non varium can be almost equal to a varium player but "when i think like a non varium" its seem much difficult and varium players keep winning also 10 varium players can defeat me in a row than in my opinion most non variums become angry and quit from ED or dont keep their 60 wins per day.
*****

(The ones dont give up can be like : JariTheMighty , New Hope ( she is also 1st in alltime 2vs2) , Woochi and many more ... ) ******

2)Non variums dont have weapon variety , to reach 90 stats a non varium cant do a good build ex:Str build or Supp build , the weapons i choose to make 90 stats realy cant form a good combination.

Example: If a Non varium Merc wants to do a supp build he/she can have max +36 in supp with high requirements but a varium player can have more than +50 and variums dont have much requirements.

Benefits and Harm of the Varium:



Gives small stat advantage (max: +26 min:+11)

Gives time advantage (a non varium should play 160 days to have +90 stats but a varium player can reach +101 stats in seconds)

Having more variety in Weps

Having less requirements

Too expensive for a 2D Flash Game*******



Benefits and Harm of the Non Varium:



Need to play much

Lack of variety in weapons

High weapon requirements

No money spent ********

Reasonable Buffs for Non Variums that i think:



Reducing Prices of Credit Enhance

Releasing more non varium items
*********



Note: ik that i said i will not write to this thread again but i wanted to clear my ideas from arguments that i made with other ppl , also this seem more clean and understandable.

*There you are using a merc/tac merc as an example. In other words, the most overpowered classes. Furthermore, you are assuming all those items are fully enhanced, and even you know how long it takes to fully enhance everything.
**That is not the maximum difference, it is the minimum because you are assuming the non varium has fully enhanced his primary, sidearm, auxiliary, and armor.
***First, they pay to have 40-50 stat advantage or more. Second, they pay to save the hundreds of hours of time spent on farming credits to fully enhance items. Third, the stat advantage will only be matched by a non varium player in more than an year.
****The varium user simply payed some cheap cash to get that advantage, while the non varium user gave up months of his life time to just be competitive on a "2D flash game" as you said.
*****A smart person would rather use his time doing better things than to try to be competitive on a "hopeless game". Notice that I used "" because this game still has hope, but it is like a man standing at the edge of a cliff, about to fall down.
******You can't really say "many more". It's more like "a couple more".
*******I agree (but that doesn't mean I stand on the varium side)
********Along with "no money spent" comes "easier to quit the game"
*********I agree




Epic Pwnser -> RE: The Gap (8/15/2011 15:40:47)

Turkish, that was a very comprehensive explanation of the gap. /clap clap.
quote:

Reducing Prices of Credit Enhance
Releasing more non varium items

^And yes, this is what should be done.
Except that ED doesn't do regular updates each week all the time. And particularly this one, which has been delayed over a week already.
Who in the right mind would get
quote:

307,105 credits

as a non-varium regular player.

It just doesn't make sense if you look at it from the free-player perspective.




od -> RE: The Gap (8/15/2011 15:51:08)

@turkish incubus

That 300 k price is only for 1 set of weapons, and most people want at least 1 energy and 1 Physical weapon, so it would be 600 k credits just for enhancments.

My perspective on the gap is, if i am fighting a preminum player with a low resistance build ( I'm a str Mage) or one without max enhancments, I have a fair chance (30-40%) of winning. however if I fight one with a good build, it's a free loss for me.




Sipping Cider -> RE: The Gap (8/15/2011 18:43:33)

@TurkishIncumbus

quote:

Benefits and Harm of the Varium:

Gives small stat advantage (max: +26 min:+11)
Gives time advantage (a non varium should play 160 days to have +90 stats but a varium player can reach +101 stats in seconds)
Having more variety in Weps
Having less requirements
Too expansive for a 2D Flash Game



Benefits and Harm of the Non Varium:

Need to play much
Lack of variety in weapons
High weapon requirements
No money spent


You are dead on the bulls eye with that. Currently, that is the dueling situation put into the simplest detail. You forgot to mention about all the non-dueling varium features, but that is not really a problem for the non-variums, since they can still enjoy the game through dueling if they ignore these other features.


Here is how I would like the list to look like this in the future:

Benefits of Varium

  • More variety of weapons
  • More stats (3-4 per weapon)
  • More in-game exclusives


Benefits of Non-Varium

  • Does not have to pay money
  • Can still win without enhancements
  • Gets a small variety of weapons



For this list to take place, the timing factor of enhancements or enhancements as a whole would need to change. I think that weapons that are really new and powerful should not have the option of enhancing it, but as time goes on and new and better stuff gets released, the weapon gets enhancements so it is equal to the new weapons.

This way, a sword that comes out with 34 damage and 30 stats will equal a sword with 30 damage and 28 stats that came out a few months ago because it would have enhancements. Also, this would keep all the weapons equal in a sense, and enhancements would not increase the power of a weapon beyond the power of most others so it would make it harder for varium weapons to out-score non-varium weapons by tons and tons of enhancement/stat points.




One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: The Gap (8/15/2011 19:29:46)

i enjoy how most Variums say an average F2P can fully enhance gear well this simply is not the case and saying the minority(Merc) can equal the majority(BH and TM) in the ability to win enough normal fights to make buying enhancements an option or to stay long enough to farm for full enhancements at the current game style is crazy to say the least.

Present day ED is you go into battle 7 out of 10 will be a TLM(fully enhanced with limited rares or otherwise) which is pretty much equal to a free lose 2 out of ten is some other class(with varium and possiblity of limited rares or flly enhanced) and 1 out of 10 is a F2P/low level your chances of getting up to that 300K credits mark to get full enhanced gear is slim

lets say you farm everyday 15's for 10 hours a day no power hours becuase thats a varible im not able to add correctly
1 npc is 32 credits
15 npcs is 480 credits
for 10 hours now your up to 4,800 credits in one day
300K/4.8K=62.5 days

so thats a bit over two months by the time you have the money for new enhancements chances are there is new gear out already for you to use setting you back in your credit totals

and dont give us the you dont have to get new gear line becuase when new F2P gear comes out its atleast 2 times better then our old gear i promise you




Shadronica -> RE: The Gap (8/15/2011 20:48:01)

Yes see it is a formidable task to expect non varium players to keep up with credit enhancements. Even if you are a varium user and wanted to pay for enhancements with credits is hard enough especially with the release of new and better weapons and armor. What chance is there for a non varium user to be able to enhance all the gear they want to be able to use?

The enhancements are cramping everyone except for moderators and the people with a disposable income.

You see even new varium players can enter this game with around $200 to buy all the latest gear which enables them to smash older varium players that have experience but not all the latest gear fully enhanced. Therefore it puts off a lot of older varium players from playing since they don't particularly want to see their win % diminished.

By its very nature the problem with enhancements is limiting EpicDuel itself.




igfod13 -> RE: The Gap (8/15/2011 22:46:18)

Since we all agree that enhancements is the problem, I'm going to add in my own two cents again with some personal anecdotes.


I don't want to speak for others, but for me, I don't think its reasonable for me to fully enhance myself any time soon. With an inventory that's overflowing with 50+ boosters from valery, I'm probably above average, but not great. I currently have 12 enhancements. Fully enhancing my current weapons will cost me 186k credits. With 70k currently in my pocket, I'm still very reluctant to enhance to get 14 more stats. Why?

1. If I fully enhance everything, I will have no flexibility in my "weaponry". I'm stuck using Frozen Horror Staff even though I have slightly better Celtic Clover Staff. All because I fully enhanced it. It is EXTREMELY hard to switch weapons after you fully enhance them. The reason I'm not enhancing Marauder Boomstick is because I know I will soon be using the soon to be buffed Halloween Gun. The reason I did not enhance Seraph was because I was waiting for a newer armor, and sure and behold out came Imperial Mage. It's this reluctance to enhance that lowers my total number of stats despite me having the ability to "lower the stat gap".

2. I still want to use my credits for other parts of the game. I want to buy more weapons. I want to change class. I want to waste all my money and get that Artillery Master cheevo. All these things are within my reach, but they're probably not gonna happen very soon because I "need" to enhance. And I "can't" enhance because I'm waiting for "better" weapons which will come "soon" enough for me so that its not worth enhancing the current weapon I have now.

3.
quote:

In half of a year an average non varium can be almost equal to a varium player

I've played this game for a bit over half of a year. I am living proof that this is DOABLE. I play quite a bit, but not excessively(I still have time for school, sports, friends, hobbies, MLP:FiM). BUT if you look at the 2 reasons above, I'm not there yet. If I was in a rush to fully enhance my weapons, I would be running around with Caden's Wrath, Hyper Talon, Seraph Armor, and Neutron Blaster, with 76 stat modifiers. That's still a good 40 stats from a varium player's maximum potential, and 30 stats away from an average varium player That's still an 8-10 level difference from the AVERAGE varium player against a FULLY ENHANCED non varium player that has started 6 months ago rushing to fully enhance everything. It's unrealistic. I'm probably better off waiting and not being fully enhanced with my 70 stat mods right now. This "non-var way of thinking" is probably smarter.

4. Many of you speak of new hope and jari the mighty, and how they are so successful. I want to point out that they have played for a long time, and they have played A LOT. Could I be as good as them? Maybe. Will I? Of course not, I don't have that amount of time. I can't say this for others, but I play this game semi-casually. I'll stay up super late with my faction if we're trying to do something, but I'm not going to get 75 wins a day every single day. Its kind of too much and unrealistic. I'll get 200 wins a day once in a while, but its not sustainable. Spending 3-5 hours every day doing boring npcs probably means you're pretty addicted.

I also want to point out the use of caden's wrath and mjolnir in these stat calculations. People with caden's and mjolnir will be hitting 10 less damage, and very often that will be a "3".

-okdude




One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: The Gap (8/16/2011 12:59:49)

To contunie above i use Caden's wrath and im very reluctant to press the strike button becuase i know i will be kicking myself and my enemy will be laughing at my damage but thats is one issue with F2P gear the best stat mod have god awful damage where as the best stat mods for a Varium are most of teh time teh best damage wise too so there are many factors to this gap
enhancements
the gears power
class against class
skill(which is rarely if ever used anymore)
bots(afew F2P's have Assult but that doesnt hold a candle to Gamma which alot of Variums have)

thats just off the top of my head if i sat down for say an hour and played ED i could go to list more but also if i sat down for an hour to figure these out more then likely i could be a statistic in my own calculations

are we going to make a new gap when this hits 10 pages or is it just going to have to die becuase of the new rules




Synbad Syndicated -> RE: The Gap (8/16/2011 15:15:27)

i suggest making a new one after the buffs/nerfs comes.




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