(HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (Full Version)

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Drakkoniss -> (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (9/16/2011 21:51:37)

Finally, I have been able to write this... sorry it took so long. The Prologue isn't finished, so don't post yet in the story thread even if you are a writer, and make sure you have permission later, too, even if you are. ( http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=19616251 <- The link, which I forgot to post on here earlier...)

Please post questions and commentary on the story here... but if you want to have a conversation about where the story is going, are a writer, and actually want answers instead of just speculating, please talk to me in-game or via PM.

Please don't spoil it if you are one of the writers and someone else doesn't know part of the storyline... Well, unless it's a secret, I suppose you can, but don't just go blabbing about how the story ends or any of the major plot points. XD




Shadowlord9k -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (9/16/2011 22:23:41)

Wait the storyline has a plan? I thought we were winging it.




star screamer -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (9/16/2011 22:38:45)

Who are the writers?




Drakkoniss -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (9/16/2011 22:50:41)

Quite a few people. Velmur, me, Zafara intends to work on it with us, hopefully Clown, perhaps... Jae, if she gets the chance... I believe Shadowlord9k intends to as well.

Many other people intended to help, and probably still will. I will also be cooridinating this with Gray to make sure it works in the timeline.




Shadowlord9k -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (9/16/2011 22:53:34)

Drakkoniss: Yes I am helping with it, I think the final list was...15 people or something. I know Velmur has the complete list, so you should go ask him.




delta blitz -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (9/16/2011 23:37:22)

@drakkoniss:please remember the fact that I came back too late and I'm now in disguise watching over you guys.(read the last few lines of the Hero of Loneliness if you are unsure).




Drakkoniss -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (9/16/2011 23:58:44)

I know, DB. I hope we will use your character in a way that would please you. Thank you for the permission, btw, although using you was a given... XP




UnityDestroyer -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (9/17/2011 0:38:23)

I am one of the writers.




Clown the Jester -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (9/17/2011 7:48:45)

EXCITING! I hope Mr.Modo can be as warm and cuddly to this city as I always been. HEE HEE HEE!


quote:

Quite a few people. Velmur, me, Zafara intends to work on it with us, hopefully Clown, perhaps... Jae, if she gets the chance... I believe Shadowlord9k intends to as well.

Many other people intended to help, and probably still will. I will also be cooridinating this with Gray to make sure it works in the timeline.


Drakkoniss...heh heh heh...you know I'm game. All ya gotta do is ask with anything you so wish me to do...and I'll do it.


Heh heh heh. I CAN'T WAIT! CAN'T WAIT!


WA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!




Arachnid -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (9/17/2011 11:42:42)

Heh...Heh heh...Heehee...Ha...Hahaha....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

~Lady Zafara




megakyle777 -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (9/17/2011 12:36:20)

Since I will probably be busy with College work, I would be gratefull if someone could find the time to write a chapter about me. Noone has to mind. Just if they has time or some spare ideas. I think many writhers here know my foes and backstory, or can use what they know to make a good one.[:)]




delta blitz -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (9/21/2011 19:14:29)

@megakyle: trust me you aren't the only one who has college work to do [>:]




Clown the Jester -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (9/24/2011 8:22:57)

Fantastic new chapter Drakkoniss...I love it. Absolutly love it.


This modo seems like a tough cookie. Lets see if he can crack even Drakkoniss....Heh heh heh.


Love your persepective of the final stage of the game in Comedy and Tragedy. Aboslutly spectacular.


Can't wait to see what happens next.




Drakkoniss -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (9/24/2011 9:23:31)

Oh, perhaps not as warm and cuddly, per se'... I think you'll like where I am thinking of going with it... Maybe we can talk about that in-game, or something, and see if we can figure out a few things...




Clown the Jester -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (9/24/2011 11:33:15)

Heh heh heh...I'll be there when I can. WA HA HA HA HA HA!




Drakkoniss -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (10/24/2011 22:13:46)

Ok... I have writen a somewhat short second part for the prologue... That will actually be the end of the prologue, however, the fight I intended to write will actually be in chapter one, which I shall probably be writing tomorow... The author of chapter two has already been decided, which reminds me that I need to ask Vox to move this to collaborations...

Oh, and sry, Clown, I intended to write this over the weakend, but many things happened... I also meant to write chapter 1 today, but I had Blue Screen problems initially, and also a longer school day than I normally do, which reduced the ammount of time I had to write things. I also wanted to make sure I was able to concentrate well when I wrote ch. 1, and I am being distracted atm... That is one of the reasons the second part of the prologue is comparatively short and not too well writen in my oppinion, but whatever.

If you wish to comment on it, feel free to do so, I guess.




delta blitz -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (10/24/2011 22:35:59)

@drakkoniss: indeed I will [>:]




Argeus the Paladin -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (10/25/2011 3:48:58)

Alright, let me have a shot at this particular chapter.

First thing first: You seem to be suffering heavily from a writing disease known as ellipses cancer. There are ellipses everywhere, more than any other punctuation mark in both your work and your comments. It almost seems as if you never use a full stop, ever, as a conscious style choice.

This is not a good thing. An ellipsis is usually just reserved for sentences left unfinished, unfolding situations or other dramatic pauses as a rule. Which does not happen on a sentencely basis, if you catch my drift. You can't have something akin to a dramatic pause once every sentence. Not only does that read extremely unnaturally and breaking the flow of narrative, it also greatly waters down the sheer impact of the ellipsis itself, to put it gently. As a result, the whole chapter itself reads like the incoherent rambling of an overdramatic narrator with a questionable sanity than a proper narrative. I know how this could be a conscious style choice to get the point across that the narrator is in fact insane, but even so this gets old really fast and, frankly speaking, is quite annoying.

The second major qualm I have against this particular work is the sheer amount of grimdark for grimdark's sake. This is what happens when you wantonly include too much violence and dramatic bleakness too quickly without giving them enough substance or justifying logic, especially the latter. Like this, for instance.

quote:

No jobs; Dwindling food supplies; People were leaving, and many were already gone forever...


Let me just pick apart how many things are wrong with this sentence on a logical basis. First, where do jobs come from? They come from things that need labor - in other words, as long as there is something that requires work to be done on, there are jobs. So do these exist in the setting? Oh, yes it does.

quote:

but the damage was far too vast.


Damage require labor to repair, doesn't it? And when the hypothetical civilian and productive infrastructures of this city are repaired, what would they be used for? Why, to house more people and produce more goods and services, of course! And if that is to happen, why, is that not the beginning of a labor market? As I said, the idea of unemployment is strictly a product of a saturation of the labor force - as long as there is work that need doing and people that wish to work, unemployment literally cannot happen.

The part about dwindling supplies I also don't buy. What do people do when there is not enough food to go around in real life? There are two possibilities that would cause a food crisis: either there is not enough land that supports the kind of agricultural activities to feed that many people, or insufficient people working in agricultural endeavors owing to lack of incentive. The law of demand and supply means that as long as there are demands for a product as vital as food, there will be ample incentive to, by way of the invisible hand of Adam Smith, get into agricultural production. On the other hand, lack of agriculturally productive land might be a valid reason, but here you are implying the setting as a wasteland with not very many people and a lot of land that is (as I can see from the passage itself) uncontaminated by radioactivity, dark magic, or what have you. There is literally no reason for people to not start regrowing things, raising livestocks and rebuild their lives.

quote:

Of those who actually stayed in the city, it was a daily fight for survival. You either killed or were killed; Steal or die of starvation.


Once again, this makes little sense on several aspects. First, there exists nothing that stops them from leaving. No magical barrier around town, no Trade Federation blockade, no 3000 rad-per-second radioactive hotspots at the chokepoints, no Simo Hayha spawncamping outside, and as you said it yourself - people have left. If the life in the town is that miserable, people aren't going to stay if life outside is better, also by way of the invisible hand. The population in the town would therefore decline until the point where it is stable, the people can support themselves and they don't have to engage in self-destructive activities on a settlement level as you mention. Second, the "kill or be killed" mentality does not make a sustainable community. The nature of most human, especially at points of crises, tend to be constructive and cooperative rather than disruptive and confrontational. The latter only emerge in times of despair where there are literally no other options for one's survival except to kill and rob, which, as I have pointed out above, is hardly the case in this city. People have every possibility to work, to reform land, to grow crops, to rebuild their lives and to stabilize as a community. Both of this suggests that, if the situation in the city is as bad and desperate as you paint them as, the community would have for long dispersed and find work elsewhere.

My biggest advice to you on this part is this: Before you partake in any serious worldbuilding, ask yourself - would the scenario you have in mind make sense on a logical standpoint? Would what you are planning for the characters consistent with the nature of human sociology? Would your settings be sustainable from an economic-political standpoint? I would strongly suggest that you do researches accordingly to hammer out those parts that you don't feel very sure about. That way, you would be able to prevent yourself writing scenarios that are thoroughly unrealistic as far as human nature, economy and sociology are concerned.

This, BTW, is also a major criticism against Warhammer 40K, just to show that yes, established authors and settings can make this error too.

If you need any help fleshing out the setting further, I am willing to lend you a hand. Give me a call if you need my assistance.

Good luck with your work, and battle on!




Drakkoniss -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (10/25/2011 18:42:12)

Yes, yes, yes. I already realize my writing style is different from the norm.

When I comment, it is used to indicate either indicision or pause between parts of a sentense, or to indicate the passing of time while I am reading, and thus, the changing of subject for the new statement.
In the most recent chapter, it was to both indicate melancholy in the nararative and the passing of time. The passing of time specifically was a large factor in the second part of the prologue, as it takes place over 3 years' time.

In the first part of the prologue, you will notice, they are still present. This was due two two different things: one, the anger was clouding his mind, and his thoughts were skipping back and forth into different subjects, and secondly, the extreme pain he was suffering at the time. Technically speaking, it occurs in flashback, but the point is still there. His memory was foggy from the pain; He was dissapointed with himself about the whole thing, due to the ending, and that increased the melancholy brewing within him as we was retelling it.

As I said, this is all in flashback. Those were both very dark times, and if you read Comedy and Tragedy, the first part of the prologue (barring the last bit [the part with Modo]) was actually the climax and last chapter aside from the epilogue of that story, but told from a different perspective. I refuse to take any of the grim violence out of that, because it would take away from the substance of the story if I took away from the foundations of it. This is meant as a sequel.

The second part was grim and dark because of the grim and dark nature of what happened. In the aftermath of C&T, the city was left a bloody shell of what it once was. The people were very desperate, whether to leave, or whether to just survive. I also drew from the fact that in Opperation R.E.B.O.R.N. (the sequel to Comedy and Tragedy that is being written by Gray Silhouette at the same time as this one, but takes place 2 years after this story's events), the Tradertown shown in the game was mentioned to have come into existance due to the "Chaos Riots" as the events of the previous story are called.

By no jobs, I was not meaning litterally no jobs, I was meaning that, while they did have construction work to do, there was virtually nothing of the previous economy left. Many, many, of the people of the city were slaughtered. Those that were working on rebuilding had very little to gain from it save the hope for tomorow they would gleam from doing such work, and that doesn't fill your belly.
With the money needing to be spent on materials, and the food resourses dwindling and being diverted to the shelters as well, life was very hard.

Many of the survivors also were injured, which added to the strain on the resources of the surviving people.

The govornment of course did help, at first, however they eventually stopped doing so with the continuous raids from those who decided to stay in the city (many of whom were escaped criminals from L.O.C.K.D.O.W.N., a prison founded to be able to house smashers specifically, although many who were not smashers were kept there, as well), who preyed on the other survivors for their resources.

Those continuous raids caused the govornment to lose faith in the rebuilding of the city, and they cut funding to the project. Volunteers from the civilians were also wary of coming to their aid as well, with the violence and the fact that their labors were slow, and did not easily or swiftly bear fruit.

Even trucks bringing food from elsewhere ceased coming as more and more of the survivors gave up and left. It was too dangerous in their oppinions, especially with the fact that there was little to no profit in return.

Also, I have not been clear in my statements concerning the actual ammount of people who survived. Very few did: in the lower end thousands.

Oh, and when Wiiman destroyed the thousands of nuclear bombs Clown had summoned out of nowhere (by use of reality bending, mind you), he did it by blowing them up without causing a nuclear reaction by means of magic. Because of the fact that C&T says they were destroyed with explosions, and the fact they were heading out in every direction, yes, I am guessing large chunks of the city were contaminated by radioactive materials, which offers yet another reason most would not want to stay there, and the govornment eventually gave up on the project.

Oh, yes, and these were city goers. Very few, if any would have any knowledge of agriculture, having probably lived there all their lives, and as I said, the majority of them had the sense to leave, eventually.

In response to your comment on them being able to leave: Most did, as I said, however, as I also mentioned, many were escaped criminals with nowhere else to go, or decided to stay in the city due to other reasons for not leaving, such as friends and family being among those who stayed, the fact that they may not easily be able to find a job elsewhere (this is the united states in 2011-13 or '14, here. The economy is shoddy elsewhere, as well), ect.

And no, kill or be killed is not an ideal situation for society, and in normal circumstances, I would say that it wouldn't make too much sense, however, with limited resources to scavange, and the fact you could die if you do not find a meal in such an uncivilized wasteland, along with the fact that you also have your gang to worry about (if you are too squeemish to kill for food for the rest of them, they very well could hate you, or abandon you entirely).

Yes, it is the case for the "times of despair" bit. Most of the people have been killed in the city. Many of the survivors will have probably turned canibal for food at least once, with all the bodies lying around, if they were desperate enough (that is only in the first short time period, but afterwords, it is still a viable option to survive).

Also, they were working together, to be fair, but humans in many cases just can't get along. Fights will break out; alliances will be made, ect. It is just like forming a little group of friends. You will have common goals and oppinions in many things, most likely, and you very well may hate another group of people.

@The bit about most of them having disperesed if the situation was bad enough: Yes, and as I said, most of them did. It's not as if their were tens of thousands of people roving the wastes, fighting each other. There were probably only one thousand still living there, at the very most (probably a very liberal estimate; I am guessing the real ammount was probably arround 200 or so), by the end of it all.

Oh, and the reason they coveted gum so much is that your body feeds itself on sugar. A good piece of gum could last for hours, and while it doesn't have much in the way of nutrients, it will help you survive. A person can live for quite a bit longer in the desert if he has a pack of gum than otherwise. Days more, possibly, if you work it out well enough.

I apologize for not making these things clear in my story (with the exception of certain things pertaining to what occured in Comedy and Tragedy). It was very late, I was tired, and I was very distracted. I made it clear in my post announcing the fact I released a second part to the prologue that I did not think I had writen that part very well.

And yes, I would like commentary on my story in the future from you, with pieces of advise and the various faults you find in my work.




Argeus the Paladin -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (10/25/2011 21:47:08)

Ah, there's the problem.

A rule of thumb in writing speculative fiction is that you should make your setting as clear as you can without compromising/spoiling the crux of the story. After all, speculative fiction like these is all about creating something that differs in a fundamental way from the society we live in. Which is why you have to clarify those parts of the setting that deviates from what we know.

Which leads to another problem I forgot to mention in the last comment: You seem to "tell" a lot rather than "show" them, especially in the second part of the prologue. In particular, you just tell the readers what the city's situation was like from the point of view of an omniscient author so that we, as readers, will have to take your words for it. This is a cardinal sin in writing for a multitude of reasons. Here, it compounds with what I said above - when the readers have unconsciously adjusted to your writing from an omniscient narrator point of view, they would still very unconsciously expect you to inform them all there is to know about the setting. And when that doesn't happen, well, it leads to all the confusion just now.

A sound advice to take care of that predicament is by starting to show. Stop telling us that the town is like this or like that - show us what it looks like from inside out. Show us the people. Show us the day-to-day activities. Show us the looting and the marauders if need be. Show us everything that proves your point that the city is a hellhole rather than telling us it is a hellhole.

As for the formatting, let's look at it this way. Dramatic pauses and the passage of time is extremely common in professional literature, and yet very few writers, if any at all, use half as much ellipses as you do. The logical conclusion to draw from here is that there are ways other than abusing the ellipses to get your point across. Shorter sentences, for instance, conveys a sense of abruptness and urgency, while longer and dragging sentence implies the opposite. Slowing down the pacing or showing more of a character's internal struggles would also convey a sense of melancholy and somberness well enough. Or, if you insist on using a punctuation and formatting technique to get your point across, you could try adding paragraph breaks where you would use an ellipsis, since paragraph breaks usually implies a beat.

If there is anything else I can do to help, please do not hesitate to ask. I'd do what I can to offer advice.

Good luck and battle on!




delta blitz -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (10/26/2011 18:23:01)

@drakkoniss: it seems me and you should cross writing styles, you don't have grammar issues but your details are lacking, while in my case it is the exact opposite. I remembered that I'm suppose to be writing a chapter in the story due to the fact that my character is still walking around in disguise, so I hope you don't mind if I add a bit more of my style into it when the time comes.

Also I once again I ask for you commentary for my story.




Drakkoniss -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (10/26/2011 18:30:51)

Yes, I realize the fact that I was not personalizing all that I was writing, nad showing it from a point of view of the people. I did this because it's a prologue.

It is meant to tell you what happened between the last story and the current one, which will be told from a person to person basis. It will be from the point of view of the people who are acting in the time it takes place. You will hear about what is happening to the other people, as the characters see what is going on, and take actions which will effect the others.

The only reason I was not going about it on a personal level, rather than a societal one, is the fact that it is intended to be a prologue which tells you what happened, and is not meant to actually be the story of what happens, itself.

I will edit the prologue's second part to make it more clear about what the actual things that happened were, and the reasons behind the events.

Also, the reason from an author's point of view that I did not specify specifically all that was happening in the fight with Clown was the fact that the actual fight at the end of it in their story already encompassed all the detail and emotion that was needed for such a scene, and my version of it was just to catch up anyone who hasn't read C&T, which they should have, considering this is its sequel, and thus they should know the circumstances behind that fight.

The reason that my character/the nararator (for the moment) seems to know so much to a point it almost seems omnicient in the fight with Clown the Jester (at the moment Super Clown) is that he is a super genius. He has an incredibly high intellect, and was able to calculate his moves in a way that it would cause the best possible outcome. He had been doing that with Clown since before the story even began, causing him to become facinated with him, making alot of his focus and drive in doing things center around fighting him (which sortof semi-backfired, considering alot of the situations he caused were large disasters he engineered to test and challenge Drakkoniss's heroic resolve and ability), and then during his time as Super Clown, even, causing him to focus his attentions on causing me/him agony, instead of using his power to, for example, devestate the entirety of the United States in one day or less, and causing him to focus on the city as time passed and the search for a way to defeat him continued.

That, of course, is not shown in the actual story C&T, but it is a semi-well known part of our mythos of what was actually happening, among the HS authors community. The reason for it not being show is that the story was from the point of view of Gray Silhouette and Clown the Jester, with the exception of 3 chapters (if I remember correctly), one being the last chapter other than the epilogue, which has our fight which is the same as the one in the prologue; another is the fight between Drakkonic Evil, David Blitz, and Super Clown; The last is the single chapter of Comedy and Tragedy which I wrote, which illustrated what my character was doing just after the escape of the villains from L.O.C.K.D.O.W.N., and when the canibal clowns were rampaging in the streets (it was the same time, to be fair). The end of that chapter takes place at a slightly later point in time, but whatever.

And yes, I do admit I may have to work on my writing style a bit, but then again, I am still somewhat of a novice at writing stories.

...

I shall try to fit commentary on your story in at the end of the day, DB. I have a few other things to do... and I usually do put quite a bit more detail in my writing, to be fair.

...

There I edited the second part of the prologue ot include more details.




delta blitz -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (10/26/2011 18:45:45)

@Drakkoniss: I didn't to come off as rude my friend, what I meant to say was your more straight to the point as a writer than I am. I pefer dragging out my details in order to allow my reader's to feel the scene a bit more. The only reason I can understand your story is because I am apart of C and T but anyway, I'm sure no one would mind if you add a bit more of sadisticness to your writing (I'm really wouldn't mind)[>:]

Edit: Disregard my above statement the changes you made has proven my words completely incorrect. Have a nice day X3




Drakkoniss -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (10/26/2011 20:00:06)

lol

I actually edited it even further, DB. I would also like you to note that I didn't assume you meant offence by it in the first place, nor did I take offence anyway. I am confident in my ability to write in detail, yet still remain actiony enough for my tastes.

If anything, it is my ability to capture other people's characters' emotions and personalities correctly that I am uncertain of.

I had to go away for a bit to cook my dinner, and I wanted to make sure what I had writen got in there, just in case.

And you're right. I probably could get away with a bit more sadisticness (if you read my chapter in C&T, which involved me slaughtering 100 Canibal Clowns at once, you will find this funny), but after a certain point, what I could write (and I am very inventive in my ideas of causing pain and suffering) would eventually cross the moral event horrizon.




Clown the Jester -> RE: (HS) The Advent of Modo discussion. (10/26/2011 22:12:58)

I find the story fantastic.


He's still prolouging so you wouldn't expect it by his point of view because he isn't even there at the setting. So the narrator's informing of the city would be more tell than show. This is a prolouge.


Alot of the story would make sense Argeus the Paladin if you read Comedy and Tragedy


The story is gritty and dark not for the sake of being dark but for the sake of keeping the same mood that Comedy and Tragedy and Operation R.E.B.O.R.N. had.

Also Paladin, what you said about how there wasn't anything keeping the people in the ruins of the town, I think there was.


These people had lost their family, homes, jobs, everything. Some did leave the city. Others were physically incapable, didn't want to leave their homes, and others stayed to make profits.


The lack of labor was explained in Operation R.E.B.O.R.N. due to the many gangs fighting to keep Super City in a state of lawless chaos.




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