Chapter 1 Clean-Up (Full Version)

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Acient J -> Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 3:41:20)

quote:

The clean-up of Chapter One has begun! Ghost has been hard at work this week and the Intro quest for the game, "A Hero is Bored", has been updated! The coming weeks will see some serious bug smashing and stream-lining of the Orb Sagas. Join us on the forums to help!


Since the DN and Newsletter thread are mostly about the other releases, I thought I'd make this thread to streamline the suggestions for Ghost.

Major Things

  • A definite order to the Chapter 1 quests
  • A way to squeeze in at least some of DragonFable's old wars (like the original Undead War)
  • Should we use a level requirements, locks, or a combination?

    Here's the order to Chapter 1 that I've been working on:

    The Dragon Egg Saga - add Dracolich (Ash) to the chain, right before The Hatching
    Friday 13th I
    Thursday's Story
    Warlic's "Save Lymcrest"
    Wind Orb Saga (Either Pirate or Ninja)
    Light Orb Saga
    Darkness Orb Saga I
    Ice Orb Saga
    Nythera's Main Quests (up to the Storm War and the Avatar fight)
    Energy Orb Saga
    The Great Fire War
    Bacon Saga (Zeuster)
    Water Orb Saga
    The Spy of Falconreach
    DragonsGrasp
    The Ravenloss Saga
    Darkness Orb Saga II
    Willowshire
    Chapter 1 Finale

    As for whether or not to use locks: I'd say that's a definite YES.

    For those of you who don't know what locks are, using locks means that players would have to play Chapter One in the order it was released. Following my above storyline chain, players would not be allowed to play through the Bacon Orb Saga until they had played through the Great Fire War - they would not be alllowed to do that before they played through the Energy Orb Saga - et cetera.

    I support this for many reasons:

  • Chapter One makes sense that way
  • We don't want to confuse new players (and possible DA-buyers) by a messed up storyline
  • There are too many cross-references in quests (E.g. the Necropolis is mentioned in the Ice Orb Saga) for another order.

    The problem with using only level requirements is that players can do, say, the Dragon Egg Saga, and then farm Voltabolt for a while and skip way ahead in the storyline. I do like level requirements, but working alone they serve poorly.


    Minor Suggestions of My Own

    To make things a little more balanced early in the game, I think the Alchemy levels should start at 1 instead of 5. This would mean that HP Potions start out healing 40 HP and MP Potions start out healing 80 MP.

    FAQ tagged by Ghost ~LANDIS



    • Crash Dummy -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 5:11:28)

    I agree. I just started playing again, and it's pretty confusing.



    Ninjaty -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 5:14:01)

    I do agree that there should be requirements for entering the different quest chains, but I only think these requirements should consist of 100% main story related content, so Thursday's Story and Warlic's "Save Lymcrest" should be cut. They seem more like side quests to me, and side quests are, as part of their nature in all other games, completely optional and not required to advance.

    I don't think the Storm War qualifies as main story related content either, so that should probably go too.

    As for the suggestion you put at the bottom, I'd have to disagree there too. The game is not meant to be 100% balanced restricted so early on. Players should be given at least some advantages during the first few levels, to ensure that they don't hit any unbeatable quest barriers too early. Personally, I don't think there should be any farming involved in getting through the first few chains. The levelling within those quests should be more than enough to get you through without problems. Stats shouldn't really come into play during those chains either. Let it be a slowly evolving proces.



    CodeM -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 5:25:55)

    quote:

    To make things a little more balanced early in the game, I think the Alchemy levels should start at 1 instead of 5. This would mean that HP Potions start out healing 40 HP and MP Potions start out healing 80 MP.


    Disagree. When you complete Oaklore and reach FR you are already 5 or so levels. So I think that Alchemy from level 1 makes things harder, not easier, and now THAT would be out of balance.

    Also I agree with Ninjaty - Thursday and Warlic should be probably cut.. Storm should stay, as it was one of major events in game. :)

    Tomix's chain should be locked until Fire war - there we save Tomix and he is introduced first time. Also, there should be Mogloween event available, since there we find out, who is Greed.

    I'd like to add, that there should be Lady C until the finale in Sunbreeze Grove. It is spoiling and confusing for new players, if there is Elysa since the beginning and Lady C is seen only in some quests.



    BlueKatz -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 5:54:50)

    Maybe we can have a Guide NPC?
    Twilly helped me a lot when I first play DF as he showed me what to do with Egg Chain.

    Maybe Twilly somehow get coded like Quest Log and tell us what to do next.
    Or maybe NPC in every Zones give us hint where to go next



    Joulz -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 6:10:07)

    I am pretty confused too since I just came back playing DF..
    I don't know what storyline should i do first e.e



    Baron Dante -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 6:12:16)

    quote:

    I do agree that there should be requirements for entering the different quest chains, but I only think these requirements should consist of 100% main story related content, so Thursday's Story and Warlic's "Save Lymcrest" should be cut. They seem more like side quests to me, and side quests are, as part of their nature in all other games, completely optional and not required to advance.


    Thursday's story contains the first mention of the Master, so I feel it's important.
    Save Lymcrest is an imporatant part of the main storyline, as is the first part of Nythera... Nyhtera as also mentioned as main storyline. (Lymcrest saveage and Nythera are also on the Story section of Quest Log)

    But, as locks aren't wanted apparently (I do agree on them being), I feel we could go with the route MechQuest did. After reaching the main area (Soluna, and in DF, FR), there is a way to see what content is still left undone. Quest Log kind of does this, except it doesn't.

    This could be done using the board with all travel and such, having somekind of billboard for "unfinished jobs". This would also explain how do we know where to go for things to begin with.


    Anyways, there is a few huge issues with story to begin with. Somewhat important story content are left in rare wars (Which should be fixable by War memoriam, unless they were part of an chain to begin with, to which they can be implemented, or worse, seasonal. Seasonals are quite difficult, as you really can't just make them available all year along, so that Libraseum will come in handy. Though, Frostval should be with Loremaster Maya, as she is the person to write those things down.


    AND LASTLY: For the love of all holy, make the Sho'Nuff Havoc quest available even when you only do Ninja. (Currently, Pirate is required, thus making it the canon version). And add some way of having the WBP thing happen in Ninja side too. (Possibly some tidbits to the pirate side, as Ninja side has things not revealed in Pirate chain, so I think we could keep that and add something to PirateKordana's speech about something relatively useless, yet related to the backstory)



    ElectroGoat -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 6:22:49)

    I disagree with locks. Since I started playing DF quite late, the fun of choosing your own path was what made DF enjoyable for me! If I got stuck on, say, Sek-Duat, I could just shift and start the Darkness Orb Saga. I could explore Lore and not be restricted, and talk to many people, same. And crossovers were like mysteries I had to solve which helped me not get bored with the game! AE prides itself on allowing the players to practically make the game for themselves.
    So, I would be sad if they included locks.

    EDIT:
    quote:

    Maybe we can have a Guide NPC?
    Twilly helped me a lot when I first play DF as he showed me what to do with Egg Chain.

    Maybe Twilly somehow get coded like Quest Log and tell us what to do next.

    That's a good idea. Insert a 'Call Twilly' button into the QL which temporarily teleports you and Twilly to the Moglin dimension [:D] where he gives you directions on what you should (SHOULD, not must) do next.)



    Baron Dante -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 6:50:46)

    ElectroGoat: Well, while it is very good to have the freedom of choosing, it's not like everything would be locked. We can argue that quest chains have locks. To allow freedom, they shouldn't.

    Because some things just don't make sense unless something else is done first (Which is why some side-chains should be locked up to a certain point).


    I personally would love to have to visit places again and again to see if it has been unlocked yet.



    Also, now that I'm writing this, let me ask one question in general: Is it possible to have quest that aren't unlocked yet have ??? as their name on the button? Those names can spoil a lot. I noticed this when looking at the Final Friday 13th, with Dragon drakath and Titan Drakath there.

    If you ask me and my limited AC knowledge, it is doable.



    Dragonlord John! -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 7:28:55)

    quote:

    The Dragon Egg Saga - add Dracolich (Ash) to the chain, right before The Hatching
    Friday 13th I
    Thursday's Story
    Warlic's "Save Lymcrest"
    Xan Invasion
    Wind Orb Saga (Either Pirate or Ninja)
    Light Orb Saga
    Darkness Orb Saga I
    Ice Orb Saga
    Nythera's Main Quests (up to the Storm War and the Avatar fight)
    Energy Orb Saga
    The Great Fire War
    Bacon Saga (Zeuster)
    Water Orb Saga
    The Spy of Falconreach
    DragonsGrasp
    The Ravenloss Saga
    Darkness Orb Saga II
    Willowshire
    Chapter 1 Finale


    The Xan Invasion is important as it tells you who the character is. What his relation to Draketh is and more. I also think we should put a Friday 13th war with Mysterious Necromantess (sp?) as we need to have some idea of who she is before playing the Darkness Orb saga.

    I would suggest that the level required to start the Orb saga is rather high. Something like level 25. That would make people explore other options.



    Baron Dante -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 7:30:39)

    John: Incorrect placing for it though.

    It is before Lymcrest savelure. And before it was also the (currently in War Memoriam too) Friday the Beach war.



    Acient J -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 7:46:58)

    I think Ash would make a good guide NPC. He could deliver letters from major NPCs.

    Also, I fail to see how locks would restrict the game to the point of making it unfun. Just because you can't do the main quests doesn't mean you can't go exploring. ;) When you run into a bump that you just can't overcome, new paths make themselves known. You could go weapon-hunting, gold-farming, or you could come to the forums for advice, or you could poke around Lore looking for fun side quests to complete. Then when you think you're ready to take on that once-impossible quest, you can try again.

    Also, Chapter 2 is going to be up for everyone to play, even if you haven't completed Chapter 1. Keep that in mind.


    P.S.: The Xan War goes in between Valencia and Robina in the Dragon Egg Saga.



    Tristar Nexus -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 7:48:37)

    I always thought that it would be nice to inset the fire war before entering Falconsreach. It would be pretty cool if you fought a war in one of the older versions of Falconsreach and at the wars end (once the town is destroyed) you get put through to the (rebuilt) current falconsreach. Only problem being that people may lose interest if they aren't allowed into the games main hub fast enough.

    The other war related thing is that every war should be inserted as an optional quest into the saga lines at the corresponding spot. Kind of like the side challenge with the Doom walker in the necropolise sage (except between button heights instead of right next to a button).



    Acient J -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 7:51:56)

    I like the idea of actually playing through the Xan War. (As opposed to a "flashback"-type war for something that supposedly takes place in the present.) But why should other wars be added only as optional? They should become ingrained to the storyline.



    False Reality -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 9:46:37)

    This is truly a perfect idea. Streamlining is exactly what dragonfable needs, and the staff have a history of doing a terrible job incorporating wars ingame. But I don't see why the storyline must be done in that exact order, after all quite a bit of the content can be played at the same time and still make sense.



    dragon deamon -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 11:55:21)

    Locks? IF they took it to far it could ruin the game for alot of people.



    Dragonlord John! -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 12:03:14)

    @Acient J - I would love it if they made that once you completed a set number of quests Falconreach would come under attack in a war, and the town gets updated to how it was during said war. It only goes back to normal after you complete at least 10 waves and the boss fight.



    Vanman -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 12:06:54)

    willowshire tower should be right after dragonegg just the tower for it esablishes that something importaint is missing and have geo show up until we do the quest that we figure out geos origins



    steel blade -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 13:10:33)

    How about the point where you are told to gather the orbs before Sepulchure? I don't remember a cutscene/quest about that. All I know is just going directly Sho'Nuff. But, it was stated at the DNs, which doesn't count.



    Memory of a Nightmare -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 13:26:51)

    We definitively need locks! And the story should progress with the characters! The huge pile of bones in the water below Guardian Tower shouldn't be visible by players who haven't gotten that far yet! Lady Celestia should still be in Sunbreeze Grove until the point...things happen, you talk to her at the beginning you know! And a character shouldn't be able to play the finale before the rest of Chapter 1! LOCKS NEEDED!

    Yes, I mentioned this about story progression again. Have the staff ever mentioned anything about planning to fix the story progression issue, is it possible?
    I just can't let it go because DragonFable is awesome, but the failed story progression ruins the game for players who weren't there from the start! (I didn't really play from the start either!)



    Dragonman -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 13:38:44)

    Yes use locks.

    No to level tiering though, meaning, don't change the Pirate/Ninja to a level 10 storyline with level 10 monsters. I know that was an idea floating around a while back.

    Basically turn a non-linear game into a linear one.
    We need a storyline board like the one MQ has. that would be helpful, if we have locks.



    Knitty1121 -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 14:02:04)

    I know is that when I was playing through for the first time, I would get stuck on a particular quest in a chain, and be unable to finish it for quite a while (Zhowdown comes to mind, I had to level up quite a few times before I could beat that boss!). So I would go and start another quest chain. Yes, some of the crossovers confused me at first, but I figured everything out eventually, and if I had had to stick to that quest chain until I managed to complete the problem quest, I probably would have quit.

    But some locks are definitely needed, like Memory of a Nightmare said. I hate it when I find a new game, and I have no idea what's going on, and don't really know where to start finding out.



    Voodoo Master -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 14:11:45)

    Yes, use locks! Please! Any other option will make lvl 20 characters capable of getting to the final battle against SMUDD. And that will be just... odd.



    Veranex -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 14:15:52)

    I think using locks for the story wise sounds okay, or atleast something like MQ with the board telling us what things we still need to do, as that helped me level up most of the time. Or like someone said, have an NPC give you hints or something you should go to do before you do something else story wise. Atleast it will remind you what quests you have and haven't done. ^^



    Baron Dante -> RE: Chapter 1 Clean-Up (9/18/2011 14:51:39)

    MoaN: They are planning to make it so that new players see Celestia till her death and such.

    Also, you can't play the finale immediately. It has some locks.


    Everyone that says locks would be a bad idea because of some quests being too hard: I have a few points for you,

    Firstly, many RPGs need level grinding of some extent to complete areas. (Unless you are an absolutely amazing player that is).
    Secondly, it's not like everything has to be completed in a very exact way, as many side-chains will unlock on the way, and can be completed whenever something else is undoable.



    Now, one thing that bugs me is Yulgar and the Fire War. It's told in a past tense by Yulgar, which is kind of bad, as it happens at a certain point of the timeline, namely after Ice Orb (As we know who Gal is, and it is implied Akriloth is alive then). So, new players can't really just "hear" of it due to it's placement, and more importantly, how they suddenly get Primal tattoos.

    Then there is the whole issue of Yulgar moving. I think this is the reason it is told in the past tense, as it wouldn't make any sense otherwise. As we know, doing certain things may allow the change of an NPC and such (What they are going to do with MS and Celestia), so I asked about this at one point, and I pretty much got the reply that having Yulgar in FR till the quest is impossible.

    I'm doubtful of that. All they would have to do is to change where the door sends you to. Instead of sending you to Lim, it will send you to Yulgar, and have that pointer change upon this quest. (Or rather, have the Yulgar's Orb take over until the end of the Fire War)

    Now, I'm almost positive it can be done this way, but an official word on why it couldn't would be neat. ;)



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