RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/12/2011 21:09:24)

@PD This thread may mainly be for getting the opinions of people and what may be OPd so the Balance Team doesn't have to scour through everything. Also, they're human and can make mistakes. There are standards being worked on by the Team though. They just need time to be perfected. After all, "AQ didn't get all its Post-Sweep Balance Formulae made in a day"(Or "Rome wasn't built in a day" for you quote sticklers).

@gold I would understand you whining about being blocked if you were a BH with Max SA and a Dex build for Multi Shot getting blocked all the time. But since you're a Str TLM, you shouldn't complain about getting blocked since that's the only thing that makes you lose(besides obscene amounts of crits).

@speedy The Staff are working on new Ultimates and AoE(Multis) for the new classes.




goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/13/2011 16:39:51)

quote:

I would understand you whining about being blocked if you were a BH with Max SA and a Dex build for Multi Shot getting blocked all the time. But since you're a Str TLM, you shouldn't complain about getting blocked since that's the only thing that makes you lose(besides obscene amounts of crits).

ok, im a tlm, we're rejected by others. thats fine.
how about when i was a merc?
i got blocked just as much.




Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/15/2011 16:13:00)

They say the block chance for the mercs classes and the mage classes is 40% and with higher dex you suppose to have a greater chance at blocks but the strength Tact mercs with low dex are blocking as well as deflecting more than ever before another thing I noticed is when I increased strength to the highest I could go I went first every time but when I decreased it the strength tac merc went first or second in 2vs2 matches every time when it is support that is to make that determination but really either should not make that determination because it is just rewarding bad behavior.

Well to bring balance the block chance of the mage classes should be increased since those classes don't have hybrid armor or shadow arts.




goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/15/2011 16:30:38)

quote:

Tact mercs with low dex are blocking as well as deflecting more than ever before another thing I noticed is when I increased strength to the highest I could go I went first every time but when I decreased it the strength tac merc went first or second in 2vs2 matches every time when it is support that is to make that determination but really either should not make that determination because it is just rewarding bad behavior.

i love how everyone points at tac mercs for he luck factors when really its just how the RNG is set up.




Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/17/2011 11:01:39)

Balance with robots:

With too much power granted by enhacments variety of builds have minimised, why? Games these days are all about survivng powerful attacks or pulling them of quick enough.


So I think this is a great way to inject variety back into the game and create many counters for builds to lower the chance of oped builds rising or stop them continuing to rise.
For each Bot Ill state a positive and a negative effect.

Please note, for the balance to work properly all bots need to be released at the same time.

Robot idea 1.
Power Drain Bot.
Special abailty:ONCE PER GAME, drain you enemies power making thier attacks for the next 2 turns 50% reduced as well as drain 25% of their rage.
Positive Effect: Counter STR Builds, and create the vital extra turn builds need to work rather then be destroyed in 2 secs by a power abuser.
Negative effect: May be abused by extreme tanks.

Robot idea 2:
Defendor bot.
special: automatically stop you oppenents robots special from working when its used (does not work agianst robots with passive specials). each time it does it sends your robot into cooldown and your oppenet gets another turn but does not gain an extra warm up.
Positive effect: stops tanks abusing high defences, stop str builds removing intim from aussult plus may be useful for defence agianst new bots specials.
Negative effect: may stop you from using your normal robot attack when you need it.


Robot idea 3.
Effector bot,
special:passively Reduce the chance to have negative side effect by 75% ( side effects are wepon extra such as prostbite/curse or stun guns stun.)
Positive: Stops these effects being abused.
Negative: Some players may not have wepons with side effects.

Robot 4.
Paraliser
Special: ONCE PER GAME casts paralise which paralises the oppenet making them unable to use attack skills for 3 turns (strike, gun, aux and robot can be used)
Positive: Counter for power builds based around high attack skills.
negative: may not be useful.

Robot 5
Bouncer bot
special: passivley defend the user by granting them a 50% chance to defelct your oppenets stun, onto themselves.( essentialy makes your opponent stun themselves but damage is still on the intended person)
Positive: stops abusing of stun.
negative alot of builds dont use stun attacks.

Robot 6
Anti luck bot
Special: passively reduces all your oppenets minumum luck chances by 50% (eg block minumum is 4% it would now be 2%)
Positive: helps those that dislike luck
negative may be abused by certain builds.


Hopefully these robots will create variety and counters to stop or maybe slow Oped builds/classes.
Note that these robots work on the basis that the oppenet doesnt know what robot they are using or vise versa.


If all these robots were released at one time people would have to devlep strategy to win, and use back up plans rather then often hoping for first turn and power attack your way to victory.






Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/17/2011 15:38:27)

I initially created this thread for a discussion about weapon special connect percentages. I felt if all of the specials carried the same base rate, it would provide more balance and more novelty.

For more background thoughts on this topic, pls. review this thread.
http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=19895729




Technical Time -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/17/2011 17:57:53)

Mercenaries are really weak now due to nerfing the TLMS, one of the factors is that they almost have the same skills AND all nerfs was pointed on TLMS which later on affected all classes but mostly on mercs.

SO STOP NERFING, JUST BALANCE THE CLASSES.




FrostHS -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/17/2011 18:30:03)

^Yea really. Nerfing solves nothing, just effects the other classes with related skills >:l




Rui.. -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/18/2011 12:12:47)

could we have tact mercs tech replaced with blood sheild and reroute removed in-exchange for a bunk/zerk/ str buff?




Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/18/2011 12:35:37)

^ Then the will be basically the same as normal mercs...

Then need to loose hybrid for Defence matrix so at least it will seperate them from the orignal merc class then people may actuly want to go merc because they will actuly be diffrent rather then TLMs having all the good skills mercs have plus more.




Dendavex -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/18/2011 13:15:17)

you can't remove Reroute,frenzy and poison grenade simple reasons these are new skills towards the So called TACTICAL Mercenary
Hybrid should be changed for TLM or removed and only for Mercenary and Defense Matrix will bring us into the TLM opedness for months
I'd recommend making a new passive for TLM and new ultimate skills for the 3 new classes




goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/18/2011 22:33:15)

give static charge to the regular mercs to buff them.
merc is the only class that cant regain energy and that puts it at a huge disadvantage with all the energy drain skills ingame.




drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/18/2011 22:34:06)

@Above

How about giving Mercs Assimilate for Atom Smasher?




goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/18/2011 22:35:58)

@drinde
no, atom is their best choice to fight high energy builds.
they only have 1 good passive. and their skill combo isn't so good unless u put huge numbers of str (or support) in which then it leaves u with very low defense.




Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/19/2011 9:41:19)

^ I wouldnt include Assimilate and reflex as proper mana regians since when drained you cant recover your mana soley based on these skills.


Mercs are fine they dont need a regain, mercs are not at a disadvanatge its just TLMs are at a major advanatge overshadowing the orignal mercs are ther skills are very similar expect TLMs also have bonus better ones.




Gepard Acht -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/19/2011 10:06:01)

well bh and bm cant regain ep , you cant call reflex boost an ep re-gainer as it will need at least 12 ep to use and recovering the 12 ep alone would be difficult




Wootz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/19/2011 10:23:19)

quote:

@speedy The Staff are working on new Ultimates and AoE(Multis) for the new classes.
/quote]
Is there comfirmations for the AoE skills?




goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/19/2011 17:00:02)

quote:

^ I wouldnt include Assimilate and reflex as proper mana regians since when drained you cant recover your mana soley based on these skills.


Mercs are fine they dont need a regain, mercs are not at a disadvanatge its just TLMs are at a major advanatge overshadowing the orignal mercs are ther skills are very similar expect TLMs also have bonus better ones.

the only class with assimilation, also has reroute.

and they are at a major disadvantage. for str builds, unless u stun the CH, ur basically screwed and ur going to get 3 turned.
the same goes for tech mage. for merc to have an effective offense it either goes support or str, and both of these keep a low defense making others beat them easily.

most BH can throw up a cyber shield, or reflex to regain energy while having increased defense and block

and reflex does count as an energy regainer.
i seen players get as much energy back that they could basically loop reflex boost or have enough for a heal, stun, emp, or smoke.




Wraith -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/19/2011 17:48:13)

^Define 3-turn-screwed by CH.

I have a STR CH. I was against a SuperCharge mage, who blocked my malf and static, hit a 60+ on SuperCharge, and deflected my gun.

Lol much?




goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/19/2011 18:17:09)

@wraith
well lets see, 93 str.
malf, strike, strike.
but like i said, for an effective offense u have low defense. so i will probably have lower dex. meaning i wont be blocking u anytime soon.




edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/22/2011 22:10:30)

Frostbite is overpowered.




8x -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/24/2011 6:26:38)

I have an idea for nerfing str builds, just make guns damage go up with dex instead of str. It will give str abusers less gun damage and defensive players more gun damage. Heal nerf stopped/nerfed support mercs/tlms, this might stop/nerf str builds.

I want to hear your opinions.




Arcanis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/24/2011 8:45:25)

Quite interesting actually.
Aux- support
Bot-teh
Primary AND gun - str
??? - dex.
Only stat that has no direct,no energy cost attack. Skills based on it yes. Would be interesting to see if gun-on-dex could work.
Naturally,at the time its more important to sell as many bombs as possible,so that can all wait.




RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/24/2011 9:19:39)

@Rakdos
I thought of the same idea , but having guns powered by Dex would just make CH , TM and Merc weaker because they can't increase Dex , making BH even more superior , TLM by the second .




Wraith -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/24/2011 11:01:19)

@GoldSlayer1: Do you realize how much Dex SuperCharge Mages have? Like 5 def more...

And then they have good support.

And then luck is stupid.

Need I say any more? I mean have the developers heard of fairness? If a certain build can kill me 100%, as well as most other builds, it's OPed.

Geez, the Heal nerf was not the best.




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