RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [EpicDuel] >> EpicDuel General Discussion



Message


Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 5:38:39)

^

I did read it,

Does that mean that suddenly we have to stop posting ideas???






TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 5:56:51)

After trying TM im 100% sure that there isnt any balance problem, the reason there is alot TLMs is because most pro players changed to TLM when new classes released and others just coppied them.

TM=CH=TLM>BH>BM=MERC

when i was playing with TM i could beat TLMs and TLMs could beat me so thats called balance and if i can win TLMs CH can also do it or even better.

cindi told they gonna nerf TLM and buff TM so class balance will be

TM>CH>BH>BM=MERC (idk where TLM will be after nerf)

class balance will be more messed

NOTE: Pls dont get angry to me this is just my personal idea and dont forget this thread is not "Nerf TLM" there can be any other posts related with balance.




Jekyll -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 6:18:32)

^Just to add, blood mages will get buffed along with the tech mages. She mentioned "mages' skill trees"




TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 6:27:59)

^ maybe BM can be equal or better than BH, i cant be sure before buff




AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 6:40:49)

@TurkishIncubus
quote:

TM=CH=TLM>BH>BM=MERC

TM is still under TLM cause there are far fewer build options for TMs.




TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 6:44:46)

^ i agree but thats not showing build variety , its showing class power , the supercharge build is working fine against all classes.




goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 7:44:12)

i also have to agree with turk.
over the last 2 weeks i class changed from tlm, to BH, to CH, to bloodmage, to BH, and now back to TLM.

my CH was on average 92%-93%.
i think CH was a pretty good class. altho i got bored of it (thats my opinion) of it pretty easily.
while i played as a CH most of my losses came from other classes aside from tlms. for example like, out of 10 losses. only 1-2 came from tlms. most of the classes that beat the CH were bh, techmage, and other CHs. (keep in mind i have bad luck :/)

my bloodmage was around 85%
however what ticked me off was that there are no good energy staff with high str and dex. spectral reaper is energy claws and maul. but when it comes to staff it turns physical (i think they did it on purpose) because of the lack of energy staff, i haven't been able to do the best possible str bloodmage build combination of items. which is energy staff, physical gun, and aux. along with a high lvl fireball and with a medium berserker, Medium DA, and high bloodlust.

something i would suggest for bloodmage, is that intimidate run on dex instead of support.
smokescreen already runs on tech, malf runs on support. why should intimidate run on support?

a good buff to bloodmage would be have the skill effect of intimidate work with dexterity.
it also buffs the old merc since the requirement for hybrid armor is dexterity itself.
this wouldn't make the class OP. but it would give it that little extra push against other str classes.

another slight buff for bloodmage. make FIreball a multi (as suggested by someone else) and have it cost 32 energy against solo payers and 44 against 2 players at maxx. while it still runs on str. idk what plans they have for the bloodmage multi but fireball being the multi

while u make fireball a multi, remove plasma rain from the skill tree. and replace it with assimilation.
and if its true that tlm is loosing the maul skill. then give maul to bloodmage and replace it with overload.

for now that is it. i dont think the class would be OP with these changes.
but it would satisfy players when it comes to bloodmage class power.

str bh 90%+
STR BH still going hard as usuall. averaging 90%+ (mostly around 94%-97% for me on good days where i dont have huge bad lucks)
IMO str BH is the fastest NPCer. i was capable of doing 15 NPCs in below 10 minutes several times.
i even tried it with brainwash a couple of times and was able to do 75 wins in less than 52 minutes thru brainwash. (highest record of wins an hour is 80 wins for str BH at 56 minutes)
while it is the fastest NPCer IMO, the matches can sometimes be long while facing a tank (includes DM mages), or anyone who blocks alot. this type of build is pretty good, and anyone new who comes into the game can do a build for it by simply buying a delta pack, the latest armor, and machine blaster from exile soldier shop. along with serpent blaster. and u will still be getting 90%+

TLM
idk what all the fuss is about really. i have a str tlm build. and i use more strategy on that than i did on str BH, bloodmage, or CH.
yesterday i got 96.2% at 300 wins. and at a rate of 35-45 wins per hour. IMO thats not OP. why? well for one like i mentioned earlier, i use alot of strategy. and i put alot of thought when making the build. (only about 3 losses that day were from balanced matches. and the rest was all unlucky losses where lower dex would block me several times, i would get stunned once (even twice a couple times) per match, and along with deflect and crits)

now i could probably gotten a higher % if the luck factors weren't acting funny on me. but thats no reason to call the class OP.
there are many other tlms who use str builds and can hardly manage 90% these days. and usually are around 85%
with that said, the build that i have made is designed to counter str bloodmage, str BH, str tlm, str ch
and it also counters tech mages very well when if im the one that goes first (or if enemy turn happens to skip)

but altho i was capable of doing that, it requires alot of strategy of what skills to use and when. specifically against CH, and techmage.
1 wrong move and it would cost u the match.


as far as techmage supercharge build goes, i have seen a few yesterday (around 4)
2 of them beat me. one of them was sugarlicious. and i cant remember the other one.
but supercharge builds are pretty good today. (watch turk's super charge tech mage build against several "OP" tlms.)
the other 2 that i beat was because i was able to take away the energy. (the 2 that beat me blocked atom)


now i dont know how exactly the buff on mages will be, or the nerf on tlm. but judging from what they currently do and what they are recieving (buff or nerf) ill make a prediction list.

1)Tech mage
it is already good, and if used right it can be really good.
it is also a fast and good NPCer class.

2) BH
altho turk place BH before CH he forgot one thing. massacre the special ability will be taken off and replaced with a new one. and unless theres confirmation that what the newer skill is/does and how it works aswell as energy consumption. im gonna have to say CH will drop on the list. BH is also an extremely fast NPCer when it comes to str BH

3) bloodmage
im still hoping some day an energy staff with high str and dex comes out, so that i can see the real potential of str bloodmage.
the class isn't completely UP like alot of people claim. i would say it needs a slight small little buff.
with supercharge and plasma being taken out when the buff comes. i can only expect this class to be better since supercharge and plasma rain wasn't something i used at all in my builds. (str nor focus) (i also suggested some buffs earlier in this post)

4) TLM
from the removal of artillery strike, it will weaken this class alot when it comes to support builds.
and from several sources, the removal of maul will also be a big impact on str tlms seeing how maul was always the best option to use on an emergency move during a fight with bad luck. as far as other skills being moved around in the skill tree, it may cost the class a couple of wasted skill points to get a similar build like we do now.

5) CH
with the removal of multi shot and massacre, huge dex builds and str builds wont be as effective.
i dont really know what the other 2 skills are. but until theres better info on it. im gonna have to say CH is getting a nerf due to the fact that massacre is the best special. aswell as the high dex multi shot + malf combo with str build.

6) merc
after the severe nerfs to str skills that gave an huge unneeded nerf to str merc aswell as the removing of increased damage while stunned impacted this class greatly. support builds are alright. i have switched to this class twice during delta
each time i would get low % with whatever build i tried. i have tried some focus surgical strike builds, with intimidate to counter str builds. but even then it still gets its fair share of losses.


with that said. these are my opinions. and just a reminder.
the list is based on if the class gets nerf/buffed and what exactly it is loosing and how valuable it already was to it for their most effective build.




BlueKatz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 8:31:37)

quote:

TM=CH=TLM>BH>BM=MERC

Eh.... really
Not sure how long did you test Mage, but beating TLM and TLM beat all the other classes doesn't make TM beat everything in game.

>.> pls be careful with the chart next time

TM>TLM: this is true, TM can beat TLM AFTER the balance. TLM is still stronger than TM now if they do 1/ Super Tank Heal Loop or 2/ STR with Maul. They are the 2 builds TM can't even compare in term of Tanking or damage dealing. TM can beat TLM in ever other builds maybe beside Toxic build. The interesting fact that TM counter TLM well

TM<BH: In the past TM counter BH but they already found some very simple way to deal with TM. The fact that BH is a lot stronger than TM now.

TM=BM TM beat every BM's build except 1 build and unfortunately it's the most common build a smart player can make. On the other hand TM can win if you do like 2 crits (possible for Sup buid but since Sup Build get nerfed a lot by 2 Bot... and BM nearly never use Gamma Bot)

TM>CH Technically CH only can win vs TM if they go first

TM>Mer welll... don't even have to explain. Normally Mer do well vs TM but since they are too weak...




goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 8:43:24)

@blue
supercharge build isn't the only good mage build.
i have seen great tanks with focus that have beaten me before.

but its never about the build (for any class unless ur str BH) its always about the strategy.

i also have to disaagree on the CH vs tm part where u said CH only has a chance of winning if he go first.
i played CH, and i was able to win even after going second against tech mages, other str ch, and str BHs.
going second will put any build at a lower chance of win. not just CH.

btw try reading my other post :)




BlueKatz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 9:10:46)

@gold Wallll of text
Anyways CH is good vs any builds of TM beside Assim... happen to be my builds. At higher level when most TM can use both DA (DA builds might get...bad with the new bot anyways, my chart based right after the new bot released) and Assim and some might went from DA to Assim.
So it's a bit optional here, in my case, my TM can beat CH fairly well beside 5 Focus I think and only lose if CH go first or I get my Assim blocked.
So you can say TM>= or = CH

And my chart wasn't about Supercharge builds only, it's general chart I included Tank and Sup but only little 5 Focus (I don't use 5 Focus anyways but it's not good vs anything TM bad about).
Supercharge builds is not that good anyways. I only lose to SC users because I'm 30 stats behind. And that's just TM vs TM, SC builds is quite bad vs BH, CH and TLM and possibly STR Mer (they die anyways). Idk about BM but I think BM can stand well vs SC and kill TM right next turn.

About your post, it's quite good but I disagree with 1 thing TLM doesn't require that much strategy. I know what you mean, you tried very hard to mix a good skill tree but that's TLM's biggest problem: You can spend stats on ANY skills and TLM is still so good. That's why people get pissed when people try to nerf TLM, TLM is so good because you can make any builds with it.
Sadly it's not "require more strategy" it's just TLM is really good at build making.
I would blame other classes in this case however. Look at BH, same build over and over again. Look at Mer they can't even have a build. Look at TM they are so predictable. Look at BM they only have 3 builds. Look at CH... well I rarely see CH but their builds is always too specific. And just by looking at TLM I already can think of more than 6 builds.

Also about BM I think it's fine. BM is fast build with mean they will have a little lower win rate. TLM gonna get a nerf so they will be more tanky and slower. BH must get a nerf. BM will show it's goal sooner or later.

Also... why people keep saying they gonna change some skill? Where did you guys heard that I didn't see any thing about that on DN. I mean removing massacre is so silly!? Wth did you guys heard that I just can't believe (even though I really hate massacre)




goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 9:49:45)

%9@blue
idk how much dex ur assimilation build uses, but my CH build uses 106-111 dex (i change it around sometimes)
and i always try to keep extra energy so that i avoid assimilation.

quote:

Supercharge builds is not that good anyways. I only lose to SC users because I'm 30 stats behind. And that's just TM vs TM, SC builds is quite bad vs BH, CH and TLM and possibly STR Mer (they die anyways). Idk about BM but I think BM can stand well vs SC and kill TM right next turn.

just watch this

quote:

About your post, it's quite good but I disagree with 1 thing TLM doesn't require that much strategy. I know what you mean, you tried very hard to mix a good skill tree but that's TLM's biggest problem: You can spend stats on ANY skills and TLM is still so good. That's why people get pissed when people try to nerf TLM, TLM is so good because you can make any builds with it.

the original builds were created by others. later on copied by newbs. i shouldn't have to explain the process of build copying when something new is out, tech mages are getting a buff soon and tlm a nerf. how much do u want to bet a ton of people will turn mage and start copying mage builds from current mages? the old tech mages builds (or most) wont work these days because of field medic nerf

and it doesn't matter how much people disagree. ur average TLM with sloppy build and strategy will get 80%-85% (i seen some worse %)
for example, a member i recruit about a week and a half ago named xathanael. he was tlm and had a str build that was doing 65%-70%
i decided to make him a build and tell him good strategies against certain types of builds. the next day he was getting 90%

if TLM didn't require strategy, why was his str tlm getting such a low %? because its based on build and strategy not just attack spam like people seem to claim.

quote:

Sadly it's not "require more strategy" it's just TLM is really good at build making.

/facepalm
how about u become a str tlm first and then say it doesn't require strategy to get a 96%+ winrate with it at a speed rate of 35-45 an hour. alot of people talk the talk but they never walk the talk.

quote:

Also about BM I think it's fine. BM is fast build with mean they will have a little lower win rate. TLM gonna get a nerf so they will be more tanky and slower. BH must get a nerf. BM will show it's goal sooner or later.

funny i didn't find anything fast about. my npcs were going 6-8 turns. and that annoyed me as it took 20 minutes for 15 NPCs. while my str BH can do 15 npcs in 10 minutes. bloodmage would be a little better with the proper buff i suggested with intimidate improving with dex.

quote:

Also... why people keep saying they gonna change some skill? Where did you guys heard that I didn't see any thing about that on DN. I mean removing massacre is so silly!? Wth did you guys heard that I just can't believe (even though I really hate massacre)
i think it was a staff member that confirmed here in forums that each new class will be getting new specials
but like i said, IMO its more of a cyber hunter nerf unless they get a special for CH that is better than mass.
as for bloodmage, i think supercharge is a good idea to remove it because the health return effect wouldn't stack with bloodlust so it was at a disadvantage.




BlueKatz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 10:15:52)

Umm... I don't say TLM doesn't require strategy. I say it does not require more strategy than the other. Any classes require strategy.

quote:

idk what all the fuss is about really. i have a str tlm build. and i use more strategy on that than i did on str BH, bloodmage, or CH.
yesterday i got 96.2% at 300 wins. and at a rate of 35-45 wins per hour. IMO thats not OP. why? well for one like i mentioned earlier, i use alot of strategy. and i put alot of thought when making the build. (only about 3 losses that day were from balanced matches. and the rest was all unlucky losses where lower dex would block me several times, i would get stunned once (even twice a couple times) per match, and along with deflect and crits)


If you spend time making good builds out of that skill set doesn't make TLM "use more strategy" it's just TLM skills is match well each other.
Like HA is good with smoke. HA FM and RR good with each other. Maul Double good with Smoke. Multi good with smoke etc not every classes have such good combination.

quote:

funny i didn't find anything fast about. my npcs were going 6-8 turns. and that annoyed me as it took 20 minutes for 15 NPCs. while my str BH can do 15 npcs in 10 minutes. bloodmage would be a little better with the proper buff i suggested with intimidate improving with dex.

I meant it's fast vs Players. NPC always have so many HP. BM is a lot more glass cannon like STR Mer

Also I watched the video... not that impressed. Mainly non of the enemy he fought counter his build or "use strategy". Most people don't even know what to do vs SC builds nowadays




goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 10:29:21)

quote:

If you spend time making good builds out of that skill set doesn't make TLM "use more strategy" it's just TLM skills is match well each other.
Like HA is good with smoke. HA FM and RR good with each other. Maul Double good with Smoke. Multi good with smoke etc not every classes have such good combination.

well like i said, walk the talk. and what do u mean not every class has good combos?
how about malf with energy zooka? or the caster skills? how DA and energy gun?

smoke with cheapshot? smoke with massacre?
reflex with multishot?
technician with plasma rain/bolt?

people keep gassing stuff when it comes to tlm.


quote:

Also I watched the video... not that impressed. Mainly non of the enemy he fought counter his build or "use strategy". Most people don't even know what to do vs SC builds nowadays

facepalm. u just proved my point that tlm isn't OPed, cause if it was OPed turk wouldn't have won so much. and u know it.
it doesn't matter what strategy turk used because u urself said tlm requires less strategy and still wins.
are u going to contradict urself?




AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 11:05:02)

@goldslayer1
What about considering the energy costs? What about consdering the power of the skills?
Also TLM is still OP because of all the build possibilities. SC build is good, and possibly OP, but the devs cannot nerf it because it is the only build usable.
quote:

and it doesn't matter how much people disagree. ur average TLM with sloppy build and strategy will get 80%-85% (i seen some worse %)
for example, a member i recruit about a week and a half ago named xathanael. he was tlm and had a str build that was doing 65%-70%
i decided to make him a build and tell him good strategies against certain types of builds. the next day he was getting 90%

if TLM didn't require strategy, why was his str tlm getting such a low %? because its based on build and strategy not just attack spam like people seem to claim.

Are YOU contradicting yourself? 65-70% is low? If he was really bad he would have got 20-40% with TM/CH/BM, or even lower with merc, but the class allowed him to get a higher percent than that.




Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 11:16:49)

@turk and gold.


The problem with you two is your only looking at it from your perspective as veiwing balance from the top players ("pro players")
I agree that their is little balance issues between the top TLM players and the rest rest of the classes, but what you guys lack to see is the massive diffrence between Average TLM Players and average players from other classes.


Here is a table which I think may help you understand what I mean.
The higher the number the lower the chance of winning.
Chance to win---|TLMs|------other classes
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1--------------| Top -----------------| -------------------------------------------
2 --------------------------------------- | Top -------------------------------------
3 -------------| Average ------------| --------------------------------------------
4 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5--------------| Bad-------------------|Average----------------------------------
6-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9 -----------------------------------------|Bad--------------------------------------

As you can see the top for skill level in toher classes is close to the top for TLMs this is why you guys often think thier is nothing wrong with balance as their is a small gap in chance to win. BUT between average TLMs, and average other classes their is an even larger gap then and even larger gap again between bad TLMs and bad players from other classes.


That is why balance is messed up but not necesaily for you guys.
Balance shouldnt JUST be fair for the top players it needs to be averaged out to be fair and deserving between all skill levels, it should not be average players get a major advanatge over other average players if they play as a TLM I hope you guys understand.





Shao Kahn -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 11:21:16)

Everyone is saying tech mage is already balanced, but I say it could use a couple more skills that it can use with a sword.




goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 12:04:16)

quote:

What about considering the energy costs? What about consdering the power of the skills?
Also TLM is still OP because of all the build possibilities. SC build is good, and possibly OP, but the devs cannot nerf it because it is the only build usable.

what about the cost?
ever heard of atom looping? or using EMP vs tlms twice?
and SC build isn't the only build. i know because deathnightmare doesn't use a supercharge build. and i seen several others not using a supercharge build yet still be competitive.


quote:

Are YOU contradicting yourself? 65-70% is low? If he was really bad he would have got 20-40% with TM/CH/BM, or even lower with merc, but the class allowed him to get a higher percent than that.

how am i contradicting myself?
the guy im talking about is a lvl cap full varium. u say 20% like it was a lvl 29 non var with default gear only fighting higher lvls.

u claim tlm is OP. OP doesn't get 65%-70% and that is considered a low % for a full varium with latest gear. (many non vars can get better than that -.- so dont come over here saying 65%-70% is high for a non var.

and i can agree on the fact that merc sucks now.
but quest what it was Q_Q like remorse who complained about str merc back then when ur average full var str merc was getting 80%-85%

and people still said it was OP. even when every single str BH out at the time was getting 95%+ Q_Q like remorse complained about str mercs. and thats one of the main things that pissed me off because the build at full var, it would average 80%-85% and on a lucky day.
u can ask anyone who was a str merc back then. and im talking facts because i was one myself. i knew what it was like to be one. unlike many of those Q_Q who complain about it.


quote:

The problem with you two is your only looking at it from your perspective as veiwing balance from the top players ("pro players")
I agree that their is little balance issues between the top TLM players and the rest rest of the classes, but what you guys lack to see is the massive diffrence between Average TLM Players and average players from other classes.
are u saying the balance should be judge from the perspective of someone with a crappier build and strategy? that seems dumb.
to simply put it. like u guys complained about how 40% of ED is tactical merc.

then u say theres little nalance issues between pro tlms and average tlms. only to say this after

95% of those are just build copiers with bad builds and strategy so they get like 65%-85% average ur average. if thats the case then u who should know about balance should have no problem beating it.

my point is, dont play a strategy game if u dont have strategy.
the strong will survive, the weak will perish.

i use to be a common player myself back in my non varium days. i bought beta weps. and a clumsy armor (desert cyborg) from big tuna for my at lvl 28-30 (while lvl cap was 31) i managed like 80%-85% in 1 vs 1. lets keep in mind that i knew nothing about stat progression at that time, or build making, damage calculations, energy calculations, or any strategies. i was a tech mage without deadly aim. and without heal loop
yet i still managed 80%-85% keep in mind i was lvl 28-30 and had inferior gear compared to others. (beta weps had alot less stats back then. they were later on buffed) while every top mage out there had imperial acp, bunnyzooka, bio trooper/founder, and frostbane all i had was beta gear. and this is for solo. i remember going for 2 vs 2 champ one time and played 21 hours getting about 280 wins at 80% with tech mage. im not trying to brag or anything. but i was a newb at that time with inferior gear, build, and strategy. so if i could do it, why cant others do it?

i started getting more into build making eventually by the time i joined Control Alt Death (the first CAD) around early january.
i had a tech mage build and was going for solo champ on my first day of joining CAD. i got on the boards with tech mage at 94%-95%
by this time i already had better gear than i did in beta, and knew a little more about strategy and builds.
after being succesful with tech mage in both modes i decided to try another class so i switch to str merc. i then made a really good str merc and was getting 85%.

so do u still think ur average player is so bad as u fantasize them to be for classes like TM, CH, BM, merc?




AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 12:55:21)

quote:

u claim tlm is OP. OP doesn't get 65%-70% and that is considered a low % for a full varium with latest gear. (many non vars can get better than that -.- so dont come over here saying 65%-70% is high for a non var.

By saying that 65-70% is low for a full varium with the latest gear, I assume you are admitting that varium is OP. Many non vars can get better than that? Prove it. We'll see what your "many" means.




goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 13:05:25)

@aqw
no im not saying they are OP.
ur obviously not taking into consideration NPCs, low lvls, and non vars.
put all that to the equation and a full var with crappy build and strategy should get 75% on average for any class.

i apparently exaggerated about CH, tech mages, and Bms getting 20%-40%
from what i see here those are fantasy numbers. and im giving u numbers that i seen people get.
and numbers i gotten myself when i was at that stage of not having good builds or strategy. aswell as inferior gear

and do u really want me to make a list of non vars that i have seen get high %?

1) Zakalin
2) Doctus
3) jarithemighty
4) jay hawk
5) xXx.MaMaRiL.xXx (when he was non var)
6) syfy (when she was non var)
7) king frostlish
8) one8 (thats one of his alt name i remember. he had several accounts all non vars and were all good)
9) xx mir xx (i remember he averaged 200-300 wins daily as a non var tech mage)
10) new hope (im sure se has some alts aswell)
11) luna moonfang 13 (and alts)

these are some of the ones i know. there are many more non vars out there




BlueKatz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 14:04:58)

quote:

well like i said, walk the talk. and what do u mean not every class has good combos?
how about malf with energy zooka? or the caster skills? how DA and energy gun?

smoke with cheapshot? smoke with massacre?
reflex with multishot?
technician with plasma rain/bolt?

people keep gassing stuff when it comes to tlm.

Keep listing, and you will find TLM have the highest amount of combos in game. There's reason for TM stick with Maf and RR and BH stick with same skill tree.

TLM having upper hand is a fact. You expect people complain about because they are bored? How about complaining about BM being OP, really?

quote:

facepalm. u just proved my point that tlm isn't OPed, cause if it was OPed turk wouldn't have won so much. and u know it.
it doesn't matter what strategy turk used because u urself said tlm requires less strategy and still wins.
are u going to contradict urself?

DO U EVEN READ? I say "TLM require as much strategy as any other classes" because you said this:

quote:

idk what all the fuss is about really. i have a str tlm build. and i use more strategy on that than i did on str BH, bloodmage, or CH.
yesterday i got 96.2% at 300 wins. and at a rate of 35-45 wins per hour. IMO thats not OP. why? well for one like i mentioned earlier, i use alot of strategy. and i put alot of thought when making the build. (only about 3 losses that day were from balanced matches. and the rest was all unlucky losses where lower dex would block me several times, i would get stunned once (even twice a couple times) per match, and along with deflect and crits)


And many other posts you posted claiming TLM require more strategy than other classes

EVERY CLASSES REQUIRE SAME AMOUNT OF STRATEGY
TLM HAVE GOOD SKILL TREE AND COMBO

Get the whole point? It just piss me off when you just try to prove me wrong on something I didn't even saying about.

Also about the video... seriously 8/10 TLM use VERY BAD MOVES vs SC builds and more than half of the battle he get 2 blocks and some crits, just ridiculous.
And seconds, TLM is OP doesn't mean EVERYONE play TLM must be good. When comparing the number, you must compare them at the same level. You can't just compare 2 players one is very skilled and 1 just rank up all of his skill and use no MP




goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 14:23:39)

quote:

Keep listing, and you will find TLM have the highest amount of combos in game. There's reason for TM stick with Maf and RR and BH stick with same skill tree.

TLM having upper hand is a fact. You expect people complain about because they are bored? How about complaining about BM being OP, really?

really what type of combos aside from using smoke with the obvious maul, double strike and frenzy. which even an unpexpirience player would know to do.

quote:

DO U EVEN READ? I say "TLM require as much strategy as any other classes" because you said this:

yeah but before that u tell me tlms require less strategy than the other classes. which isn't true. that why i said that. it was towards ur previous post.


quote:

EVERY CLASSES REQUIRE SAME AMOUNT OF STRATEGY
TLM HAVE GOOD SKILL TREE AND COMBO
yeah and not everyone knows how to use them right.

quote:

Also about the video... seriously 8/10 TLM use VERY BAD MOVES

i could say the same about 6/10 of the people that complain.
and probably 9/10 of the people that complain ingame.

quote:

more than half of the battle he get 2 blocks and some crits, just ridiculous.

i dont find it ridiculous for someone with his amount of dex too block someone with little dex. i guess u dont realize how much dex he has because he doesn't show his build in the video. (or people would copy it just like newbs copied builds from pro tlms players in early delta what i find ridiculous is low dex constantly blocking higher dex and then people come on the forums and say that it is fine.

quote:

And seconds, TLM is OP doesn't mean EVERYONE play TLM must be good. When comparing the number, you must compare them at the same level. You can't just compare 2 players one is very skilled and 1 just rank up all of his skill and use no MP


ok, very skilled tlm 96%.
very skilled tech mage 96%-98%
very skilled bloodmage 95%
Very skilled cyber hunter 95% (i gotten almost 94% on and had a couple of unlucky losses)
very Skilled BH 95% (i seen people with focus get 98%)

the only class that i really been seeing low %s (even for pros) is merc with around 85%-90%




igfod13 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 20:52:38)

MMmmm what a yummy time to rejoin this convo.

@Turkish
quote:

TM=CH=TLM>BH>BM=MERC

In terms of just skills and not including synergy, according to my skill analysis, it's actually TM~CH~BH~TLM>BM(By a bit)>Merc(Quite a bit).

@goldslayer
A lot of the non-vars you listed NPC very much. For example, Doctus only npcs.

Also, you guys keep talking about win% for classes, and that's a VERY bad way to measure how good a class is. First of all, you're build varies for each class, and second of all, even over 300 battles or so, you aren't going to get the same opponents with the same builds. Over say, 1000 battles, it might, but it still is heavily dependent on the number and kinds of players that are on while you play.

Tacticals are not really overpowered. They just have too much build "synergy". Because they have so many strike skills, they don't need to spend very much energy to get high damage, which is easily shown by the abuse of maul, frenzy, etc.
Strike skills are actually very BROKEN right now. They require too little energy at level 1, which makes them incredibly overpowered at low levels.

Also, everyone is too dependent on malf and smoke. They are way too good for their energy cost, and need to be severely nerfed. However, I think the real problem is how the stats are set up. Each stat really needs to be both defensive and offensive in their own way.

Anyways, things are just broken in general. Every single skill really needs to looked at and balanced(mathematically, not just adding reqs or something cuz that's not really balance).

-okdude




Prakash 007 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 21:35:53)

Well from what i hear everyone saying i hear that mercs are extremely under powered, well im not too sure... im a non vared merc who decided not to class change after hearing about a possible nerf to tlms. but anyway may win rate in 1on1 can goto 70% if im lucky and is usually over 60%, same for 2on2, but recently i bought a skull card and went jugger to my surprise i went over 90% i was overwelmed but i do think other juggs may have trouble (i have 8 enhancements), moreover i posted a build in the battle stategy to kill any npc. I'm not so sure if its really the weakest class. I normally beat the filling out of non var tlms.




rej -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 21:43:58)

The back to basics act.
I'm sure many of you remember what balance was like back in late beta: agility had only jsut been introduced. focus still gave a damage bonus. there wern't massive requirements on abilities, stat-return nerfs, or abilitiy scaling. support was still usable, but in many ways, the three most common typs of builds (strengh, support, and focus) were balanced. Thus, with these highly arguable notes; i come to my suggestion.
Back to basics would include:
1. removal of skill return nerfs (SMALL nerfs may need to be applied to certain stats to create ideal balance.
2. return of focus bonus damage. (it was an interesting feature, and it gave focus a chance against the other primary build types.)
3. return of: heal improving with support, reasonable skill stat requirements (nothing above 35 max), and, of course, fixing the duel-cooldown bot problem.

Of course this will need tweaking, but at least through these fixes, we will be back to an allready known and stable balance situation rather than the mess we are currently in.




Evil Mage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (11/26/2011 23:26:09)

Dumb removing tactical mercs artillery.
They were the best 2v2 for a while. Now its back to normal merc.
Ch use to be good but now multi is going so...




Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition
0.140625