RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (Full Version)

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Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 13:41:03)

Remorse, look at it in quite a different angle now:

Founder and Elites supported the game when it was us giving them money to run the game, no other income. While now with AE, they have very stable financial situation and share the profit with them; one of the advantages of the merge. And mind you, tell me what Founders/Elite have? 2 cheevos, Armor, and a bike over 4yrs period? First 2 are nothing more but to show off, bike is just a cosmetic item and Armor is only one left which is still quite decent but beaten by other items.
And how so would you reward other players? I can buy 500 Varium and does that make me supporter worthy of a bike at Lvl 1? Yes I do support game by even getting that 500 Varium, but we're talking quite a while before the merging.
Businesses, especially games, don't have easy start if there are much better games around. If you don't have stable financial grounds then boom, you wasted money on the game (making), time, and all the effort. It's pitiful how people moan at that in ED, but AQW seems to be fine with it. (yes I'm a Founder there too)
Also seeing as ED is under AE now, they must share the profit as it'd not be worth for them otherwise to merge, give them money to upkeep servers + wages and not get anything in return. It's AE who gives ED the money, as ED has to give them the money & then they get their share from it. That's how business works.
Mind that, I spent over $300 on AQ, single-player game in a bit over 3yrs and what did I get from it? Any rewards for it? Bonuses? No, I got loads of fun instead and perhaps Guardian-only exclusive weapons (special offer ones).



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 13:43:21)

OK OK, but how about on the next annual gift (if we are actually doing that now), inventory increases to... 100!?

And I would consider the group of founders as the shareholders of this game. If noone bought ED's shares, it would still be an Epic Inventions game at 1000 and under people!



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 13:47:58)

No, because more players will be getting these slots and it'll take much more space on the servers. Introduction of Bank for Varium only items for free OR Credit-only with limited slots (more slots = purchase 'em) could be done just like in AQW.
Slots take a lot of space, if we count the fact game is still growing. That's why you pay Varium to make the inventory bigger - isn't possible for everyone but server space is also limited. +10 for everyone during Winter Event was good enough for free, there might be raises in future.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 13:52:03)

@remorse
i have to agree, its a slap to the face who supported the game alot and aren't founders.
i myself am not a founder, but i spent about $800 on this game (and somewhat fed up)
and i know that, that is probably more than 95% of the founders in the game.

founders dont need to be rewarded IMO.

and ill explain why.
when founder armor was released, it remained the best armor in the game for 2 years, and still leading in stats currently.

now for 2 years, that means that founder didn't have the NEED to buy any other armors. meaning ur average founder SPENT LESS money than ur non founder.

heres how it went for me as a non founder.
because founders had such a huge advantage in armor, i constantly had to keep buying the next best thing that was released, while founders got their armor FREE and remained the best for a long period of time, and more than any other item in the game by far.

heres a list of armors i bought because i needed it to stay in competition

1) officer armor lvl 12
2) Cyber hunter lvl 25
3) caden's cuirass lvl 28 fully enhanced
4) desert cyborg lvl 28 fully enhanced
5) desert marine lvl 28 fully enhanced
6) space warrior Energy lvl 27 fully enhanced
7) space warrior Physical lvl 27 fully enhanced
8) bunny borg Energy lvl 33 fully enhanced
9) bunny borg physical lvl 33 fully enhanced
10) tesla armor energy lvl 33 fully enhanced
11) tesla armor physical lvl 33
12) beast rider energy lvl 34 fully enhanced
13) beast rider physical lvl 34 fully enhanced

so i had to buy many armors to keep up with competition.
while founders all they had to do was equip their free founder armor.
and even then when space warrior was released, founder had the nerve to ask for an armor buff because they said space warrior was too strong, when founder had more stats, and piled stats not spread out like space warrior.

and now u see why founders shouldn't have get any more rewards.
because theres no bigger reward than not having to purchase and enhance 10+ armors to keep up with competition.
also founder has the most stats ingame, and the most enhancements.

they also have an achievement that gives 5500 rating. thats the most than any other achievement in the game.
aside from that founder even tho release over 2 years ago, is still one of NWs best art masterpieces.

so far nothing comes close to founder in art, except maybe beastrider for certain classes and weps, but founder looks good with anything. it even has the best mixes with the hair style combinations than any other armor.

and aside from that, founders also received BETA weapons for free, without paying a single penny for beta weapons.

and to sit here and give them yet, even MORE "rewards" its just not right.
and i can see why the non founders feel alienated.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 13:54:59)

@ Trans I realise that,
And they have been Reawarded ALOT! of times already for helping the game in its time of need.

Its been over 2 years now and they are still being rewarded for that, I have been here nearly the same amount of time and supporting neraly the same amount of time and to constantly see founder and elites get little rewards for 2 years while everyone else is left out is starting to wear thin.

I do accept they should get this reward and the main reason why Im arguing here is because when will it end and when will they relise that all the BIG supporters desevred to be rewarded (say $50+).
My guess is this will not be then end of the long line of rewards for these idividuals and it is fine but the exclusion is starting to wear me down and Im sure alot of people soon on.

@ Goldslayer,
I agree and you left out all the little buffs the armour got,
and the bonus 1000 free varium here and there all spreadout over the 2 years... When will it end? when will everyone who supportes largely be included??



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 13:59:03)

Well sure, without us Founders and Elites, you wouldn't spend even a penny on the game - is it satisfying enough?
Also why so many Armors? Physical and Energy - decide on build then as it's your fault for getting different versions. Founder has E only yet it's sufficient enough, while build can be changed without getting different types of Armors *unless you really want them*. Also buying next best thing available leads to having no Varium - it's a poor choice as you don't need every single next thing to stay comepetive. I purely use Founder now because Tesla looks bulky on TM, and like Founder's art more for TMs even though I'm losing -2 Res and about +4 stat points.

Still fail to see how a BIKE affects gameplay, other than getting to next screen faster or achievement that is purely just to show off. Did you ever think in battle, "I'm gonna use my Beta achievement and crush my enemy to death with its rating points!"..? <.< >.>



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 14:00:35)

quote:

because more players will be getting these slots


OK

quote:

it'll take much more space on the servers


Oh. Eh, just how much space are we talking here?

quote:

Introduction of Bank for Varium only items for free OR Credit-only with limited slots (more slots = purchase 'em) could be done just like in AQW.


Banks are good, I will support that!

quote:

Slots take a lot of space


Oh.

quote:

there might be raises in future


I do hope so!!!



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 14:01:33)

@trans
Its not just the bike, Its the point.

And I highly doubt this will be the end of it, Maybe if the Devs were to officaly give the final THANKS and from now on treat all supporters EQUALLY then I would be fine with this.

My guess Founder /elites wont ever stop being rewarded... constant slaps in the face until the game finaly drains to much money for me to continue playing or until balance becomes so recked it's not worth playing.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 14:04:06)

quote:

And I highly doubt this will be the end of it, Maybe if the Devs were to officaly give the final THANKS and from now on treat all supporters EQUALLY then I would be fine with this.

AQW has Founder-only Pets for 3yrs now, I got all of them. Isn't it time to say stop for exclusive pet? Bike = pet; cosmetic item.
quote:

My guess Founder /elites wont ever stop being rewarded...

Read above. If you can prove me Bike affects your gameplay by losing fights or not being able to compete, I'll gladly support what you said above.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 14:07:15)

@trans
the argument here isn't if the bike affects battles.
the argument here is rewards. founders shouldn't get rewards after everything they gotten.

founders getting yet another reward, affects the morale of every non founder out there.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 14:09:44)

But the problem here is with the Bike, because it's a reward and who said it might not be the last one? <_< >_> If bike doesn't affect anything but looks, is a reward though, then problem is with fact it's just a reward?
Read my first post on this page, and either understand why or try to think of another point.
Morale? That's worst reason I heard in game that depends on advantage using Varium items.. o.e



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 14:10:49)

^ So in other words,

You think its fine that you guys are constabtly rewarded with NON game influecing thing until the game end?

And

MOST of the little rewards HAVE effected gameplay,
eg. 1000 free varium for no reason=better equipment =unfair gameplay,
Armour revived to have the most stats via enahcments=unfiar gamplay.


I can see it from your view and I agree that you deserve rewards But if you look at it from ours you would prberly see that it should have an END!



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 14:12:59)

quote:

Read my first post on this page, and either understand why or try to think of another point.

why should i? my point is founders shouldn't get reward after everything received. however i do believe in thanking them.

so founders thank you for making a package purchase before anyone else. however that doesn't mean u should be rewarded every year, because it excludes everyone else out, and lower morality for those that support this game more than founders, just at a different time.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 14:14:36)

^ Exaclty,
I would be happy if they gave them the dam bike but let it be an end to the face slaps xD



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 14:15:25)

And may you read the DNs as well Remorse? Yes anniversary is coming up but there wasn't any gifts since Beta items which we've gotten for Free though.
That's 2yrs, and surely giving out more weapons to us will be absurd as weapons affect gameplay unlike AQW. What else I could think of would be house items, they don't affect the game. We got whole set of items so others wouldn't be necessary.

Just a random though - if there was a Beta shop made for players from Beta and earlier, would it be fair? Especially those who registered after Beta.

@goldslayer1
Why should you read? To show that you aren't ignorant which Lycus pointed out once on how rude it is to not read someone else's posts yet demand answers from others. Who said every year as well? Since when Beta was in 2011? It ended early in 2010..



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 14:15:38)

It seems that when I had purchased the beta gear, it had lasted a year. When I had purchased the gamma bot, it had lasted 6 months, when I had purchased the delta gear, it had lasted 3 months. Will the next phase promo last 1.5 months?!

So, I spend 3 times that of what founders had paid, yet in total, the founder armour lasts as long as the total time span of my 3 promos?

And no gamma bot is not a trendy robot, it is only good when focus is good. Right now it is the age of STR.

Developers developers developers.

Where art thou slow developing habits? Everything in ED happens so fast!

Edit:

@trans

Beta items free? Beta items are a gift after purchasing a $50 package.

Lolololololololololol, the only other way for a player like me to have received the Beta gear free would be to kiss butt. However that happens every corner I turn!



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 14:19:15)

@ Trans no it wouldnt be fair (any shop which discrimnates on what time you supported is ridiclous IMO) and You have been rewarded more then just beta wepons.

What about the spontaious 1000 free varium?

Or them stats on founder buff and the extra enahcments slots to make it THE LONGEST ITEM EVER to keep its high stats and power.

@ Deprssed, If you didnt already know, FOunders and elites got the full beta package free...



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 14:24:37)

THEY GOT $50 FREE?!

WHAT!

Bye.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 14:25:27)

@Remorse
Yep, since there's a lot more Beta players as it was after they merged with AE. But doesn't that make AQW even worse? Not only price inflation is higher there, just for looks, but new pet every year too.
About Varium, I think it was a gift too for not sure what reason. When I found out about it, it was after I noticed it on my account. But 1K Varium is one item only, isn't fair but when was it again? A year ago?
Mind enlightening me on slots buff? If it was ages ago then odd but items with different rarity + Varium cost have more slots. Like Delta Weapons have 10 while Bunnyzooka have 8. Rarity, Varium or non-Varium decide on slots. And stat buff? I swear stats went down to compromise for all classes as they all wanted some stats in one Armor. Prove me wrong here, but I can swear it went down by 2-3 stat points.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 14:27:59)

quote:

Why should you read? To show that you aren't ignorant which Lycus pointed out once on how rude it is to not read someone else's posts yet demand answers from others. Who said every year as well? Since when Beta was in 2011? It ended early in 2010..

we're talking about rewards, thats the topic here. not if the bike affects battle.
that doesn't matter if it does or not, because it still a reward.

and yes founders have been reward too much.

first in purchase with free founder armor, cheevo.
a couple months later with beta weapons.
buff on armor.
the first founder anniversary. free varium
later more armor buff.
and i think a second armor buff
now a bike


quote:

THEY GOT $50 FREE?!

WHAT!

Bye.

founders, the beta package free
elites only payed like $20, got like 20k varium (or unlimited varium, something like that at the time)
got founder package, and beta package free. thats well worth over $100 when they only payed like $20



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 14:37:45)

20, 000 ÷ $20 = 1, 000 varium per dollar.

10, 000 ÷ $50 = 200 varium per dollar.

That's a 500% inflation rate (I think)!



Oba -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 14:38:32)

quote:

And they got many, and it seems them getting rewards has no end?


You wrote that awhile back ago, but I just had to comment on this. What exactly have we got? 2 things. 1,000 varium last year and a bike this year. The Founder armor that we "got" did we buy just as any other promo, with the 10k varium package (I think you got the founder armor in a 5k varium pack aswell that time, might be wrong on that?), without knowing what this game was, or where it was going.


quote:


founders, the beta package free
elites only payed like $20, got like 20k varium (or unlimited varium, something like that at the time)
got founder package, and beta package free. thats well worth over $100 when they only payed like $20


And they we're promised to get a UNLIMITED AMOUNT OF VARIUM when they invested in this game pretty much even before it was released, yet they got founder armor instead as a compensation. Would you rather see them still getting unlimited, free varium, rather then they got the armor and beta set? Stop whining for the love of god... -.-



Lord Loss... -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 14:57:45)

Founders get the founder armor and beta weapons as a part of the promo package and we have this kinda promos today as well. But we must not forget that they suported this game during its most important period, during the merge with AE so i think they should be rewarded and its not like they are really getting much, just 1k varium and a bike, which is kinda useless. I mean bikes are just for looks in ED and most good new weapons are worth more than 1k.



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 15:04:04)

Lol @Eloy a couple pages back:

Herp DERP BETA BIKE PL0X FOR ALL BETA TESTERSSSS

When was Beta? Like, 3 years ago? How many people still are Beta-Testers AND STILL PLAY OFTEN?

Founder bike, I guess i"m fine with that. Think of it as AQW's Founder Gift every year (a non-mem dragon pet)



streetnaruto -> RE: =ED= Feb 22nd Design Notes - More Heartbreaks and broken items! (2/23/2012 15:29:52)

Stop using aqw founder to support your its fair thing because it is not. In aqw you can pay money within that time (further supporting the game) and get the promo items.In aqw i dint get the 1 upholder but i got 2nd and 3rd which is fair.Would it be so bad to give us a promo weapon by supporting the game in its birthday? Sure you held the game for a while but what if we var from now decide to not buy var and quit? heck would you give the founders a weapon for staying? also not even a third of the elite/founder population plays anymore. so us non elite/founder are holding the game now shouldent we get rewarded 1 time a year for doing it?



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