RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Sageofpeace -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 12:51:15)

@^TRAN

they already buffed field commander is not getting another buff what are you talking about?



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 12:53:08)

A revamp of FC that was announced about the same time it got a buff? It got a buff to make it a bit more usefull at least until the change happens. It's confirmed since about January already, same with Intimidate.



Sageofpeace -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 12:54:57)

what kinda revamp is it going to be? that is going to make useful it still as good as trash



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 12:59:53)

@ Isaiah...

Please note, BM's don't have an Energy Regain NOR a Decent Buff... Intimidate isn't even worth using unless as scrap for leftover energy points.

Str TLM is far from dead, ever thought of the possiblilty that you eather you lack the items to make a good build or you just don't know anything
else except, Smoke,Attack, Attack, Attack, Double Hit.... For instance, 1 decent leveled Atom Smasher is enough to criple a BM...


and about TechMages's Caster Build... The build is NOT Overpowered, it's the items used with the build that overpoweres it aka Betas...
Not saying they should be removed, but adding those weapons to the game will make shure that ' OP ' builds like Caster mage will always pop up



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 12:59:56)

@Trans Ok they aren't new but they are OP. Besides I'm talking about us TLMs against them not any other class. So EMP and assimilation doesn't really count. I blame the class and the weapons because they are the only class who can pull it off combined with the weapons and the devs wont nerf Beta weapons. So the only thing to do is to stop the class from using those builds unless they are gonna change something about enhancements soon which seems unlikely.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 13:05:05)

@Isaiah
Crippling class because of Beta weapons would be very horrible choice. If Beta players came to you TLMs and made OP'ed build with them, and I suggested nerf to class instead of weapons then you'd not like it, would you? :P
Lvl 25 weapons, 10 enhancement slots - put Lvl-appropriate requirements for them and probably somewhere in 30s to make less use out of them. Whole Set could be spread over 4 stats (so Gun would be Str + Dex req, Aux would be Support and Tech maybe, etc) so you could not have lowest stat possible anymore but actually put at least minimum in it just like we have to do with other weapons.
I'm not sure how their bonuses work out as well, I think they should get looked into to see if stats need to be brought down a little and requirements put in place.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 13:13:21)

I think that stats are not as abusive as skills are.

Issue: skills improving with stats

Issue: some skills are neither blockable nor deflectable

We could scale every skill only to player level. I think that Field Medic is a good example of balance. Now you can't argue that it is overpowered, Field Medic would be healing more if it still improved with Support. Also the only reason it is very advantageous for Cyber Hunters is because Static Charge improves with Strength.

End of story.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 13:14:40)

@Trans Yeah but that would never happen to TLMs. Alright then the only possible solution is to nerf Beta Weapons or enhancements. They need to do either one or both but do it fast like Primal Assasain said in the next few days this game will be full of CHs,BMs, and TMs at high levels in 1vs1 and 2vs2 and TLMs and Mercs can just hit the road.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 13:32:01)

I think we cant have wrost balance than the one we got now, everybody use spam build(cause others just ridiculous), who goes first got the total advantage, dont need to mention luck.

There is still UP Merc and BH

Thx balance team

Also Tech abuse caster mage is not OP at all, you just need to resist until our energy gone. And caster mage is the one thing that developers always wanted to players use.

@IsaiahtheMage

I really didnt understand why betas is OP, pls explain me.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 13:36:21)

@Turkish Agreed. Except I don't think BH is UP and its hard to resist those Mages when their 2 strongest attacks take 1/3 -1/2 of your HP each. Even if I survive both attacks if I heal the next turn they can use one of them again.
Because betas have 10 enhancement slots with no reqs combined with founder armor and its 10 enhancement slots that's 40 enhancement slots all on tech with no reqs on the founder armor or beta weps at all. That is which their spam builds are so OP.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 13:40:03)

Prime Assassin, it would not be a nerf to the weapons because the damage would be the same but when they are trying to get some sense of balance weapons with 10 enhancement slots with no requirements, that gives players of these weapons free stat range, that other players can't achieve. I looked at the list all Alpha weapons as well as all Beta weapons are the same 10 enhancements on each with no requirements. How many other Aux and sidearms got 10 enhancement slots especially with no requirements and especially that are rare. I have both stun Guns, rare promotional items, with only 8 enhancement slots, a Level 33 weapon only +33 Damage, not 3 more damage then its level as the the Beta Blaster has, with these requirements (Stun Blaster)
Strength required: 30
Dexterity required: 30
Technology required: 33
So an old promotional rare gets 10 enhancement slots no requirements while a new promotional rare gets 8 enhancement slots and enough requirements to make sure that player does not have the free stat range.

Either take off all weapon requirements or put requirements on all weapons, a small group of players should not be able to have free stat range while the rest of us that pay for the weapons are limited to how high we could put the stats.

When they place the requirements on weapons especially primary it should be in the stat that they don't use to make sure that player can't put another stat to its highest. One set of daggers/claws does not have a support requirement just dex and tech so as a hunter they could put dex to the highest it can go. Only thing that holds these players back is the stat requirement on skills.

Does not matter what class you are or what era you are from with full range of equipment you should not be able to have stat free range while over a 1000 other players are restricted by requirements.

Well on to defending the Blood Mage since people are calling for another nerf of that class due to their weak defenses. That is correct if you are not wearing physical armor with low defenses, you will see larger than normal damage.

Let us compare the strength tact merc to the Blood Mage
Blood Mage
no energy regain
no energy stealing
no passive armors
no tier 1 skill that does two strikes in one with cool down of 1
no skill to boost strength just stats and enhancements
Tact merc
energy regain
energy stealing
passive armors
tier 1 skill that does two strikes in one with cool down of 1
a skill to boost strength not just relying on stats and enhancements

I will allow others to add to the list and let us compare you can even add Cyber Hunters to the mix and you will see how limited the strength Blood Mage is and you calling for a nerf to a class or one of it few power skills that could basically be used once during the match unless enough energy to be used twice, that means low defense, tech and support.




TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 13:40:26)

@IsaiahtheMage

I think BH is UP or atleast not equal with TM-CH-TLM

quote:

Because betas have 10 enhancement slots with no reqs combined with founder armor and its 10 enhancement slots that's 40 enhancement slots all on tech with no reqs on the founder armor or beta weps at all. That is which their spam builds are so OP.


Not at all, Frost destroyer-Dark Var Blaster-Energy Eggzooka-Beast Rider is the best combination for tech abuse caster build.

1)Betas got very low dmg
2)Betas dont give support

cause without support caster mage cant rage quickly to kill with bolt. Trust me i tried both.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 13:42:23)

@Turkish BH and TLM seem balanced to me. While Merc is UP for sure. TM is also balanced except for its spam builds that are capable because of Founder Armor and Beta weps. CH is definatly OP.



Prime Assassin -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 13:43:41)

hun if you take the stats away from beta weps many many people will be angry. i enchanted my staff gun and aux on my betas. i enchanted them for the stats it'self only. not the dmg. beta wepeons are ONLY used in caster mage and to be honest i'm glad i'm seeing them actually being used again. and also this will completly destroy people trying to set world records becuase beta weps will be completly useless and unuseable.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 13:45:07)

@IsaiahtheMage

And founder armor is only resistance, so ppl cant use founder



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 13:48:00)

@Turkish Alright I'll check those weps on the wiki and see if they are the true reason those builds are so powerful.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 13:54:18)

I dont mind if Betas get nerf cause i belive they cant be more UP than this.

The ppl that never tried the Beta Caster mage, talk here like they know every thing, its easy to say "10 enhance with no req" , i tried both1)Beta Caster Mage 2)Frost destroyer-Dark Var Blaster-Energy Eggzooka-Bunny borg P

Betas in all tech gives +66 tech , 2. item set gives +65 tech with +18 support. When you try Beta Mage you will see even at 6th turn you cant rage, but when you use 2. item set you will get strong aux dmg and in 4th turn you can 90% rage

Im saying 2. one gives better result, thats why im using those weps as a Beta player.

And the Caster Mage is not OP, BMs 90% win Caster TM + res tank EMP healer CHs also win. Its very weak to 2 builds if caster mage OP than BM is 10 times OP



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 14:11:23)

Prime Assassin, If a weapon had requirements you can still use it, last time I checked you just won't be able to have stat free range.
With enough players constantly playing in battle with nothing but or enough Beta/Alpha weapons it will appear the classes are doing fine
because they are getting higher then normal damage. Then players with the new weapons with requirements can't get stats that high to get the same damage will get screwed over because they will not get the necessary improvements. No one is not taking away the stats but adding the requirements for the cost of 10 enhancement slots. What other new promotional sidearm/aux has 10 enhancement slots with no requirements especially for a Level 25 weapon or what other new promotional primary have 10 enhancement slots without requirements?

If you carry Beta/Alpha weapons and carry no other or very little how can you truly convince people you support the game or how are you helping with bringing balance by having free stat range.

They will not be extinct and players can still use them in battle but for a Level 25 weapon to get 10 enhancement slots with no requirements it is not really fair to other players that want the Level 34 primaries with 10 enhancement slots to get punished with requirements or to get the sidearms/aux with 8 or lower enhancement slots with insane high requirements. This would have never been brought to my attention if a player that had all Beta weapons with tech so high that it is not even listed on the stat progression table. So if players want balance then weapons can't be exempt especially when they get 10 enhancement slots. If players want to stop using those weapons because they get requirements that is your choice but why stop using one weapon you get 10 enhancement slots with for a weapon that you only get 8 enhancement slots if you are not using it to obtain the damage from a skill or weapon?



Prime Assassin -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 14:20:45)

i have many many items even lost mst i've spent 900$ on primal and i'm not sure how thats not supporting the game everyone one of my items is enchanted to max. i love betas personally becuase they look cool and i rarely get the chance to use them. theres one 1 build in the whole game which relised on purely beta weps. i don't want these wepeons to be exstinked i want to see some of them in battles.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 15:44:54)

I just tried Betas with Full tech i give every stat into tech just 122 hp 110 energy, against 34+9 res i hit 55 [:D] and with rage i hit 70 [:D] and since my oponent got high res i raged at 4th turn.

Plasma do 86 dmg with 29 energy with technician i can raise my bolt to 94 dmg.

but these still doesnt mean its OP, cause BM-BH, easyly beats it with the help of Bloodlust. And TM lack of defense.

If i find a way to 100% beat BM-BH when i start first, than Beta Mage might be OP. But for now all BM-BH beat Beta Mage



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 16:25:48)

@Turkish Now that I think about it you are right. So I order the classes CH > STR/tech BM > STR BH>=SC/tech build TM(depending on which build).



TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 16:37:31)

TM IS NOT OP, IF YOU LOSE IT UR NOOB

Tm is UP in my opinion. CH is OP, BM is ridiculous Luck build.

Im waiting Merc buff if some thing usefull i might change merc or CH is OP. EMP tank Healloop still not nerfed at all



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 16:41:51)

@Turkish TM isn't OP. But their SC build/tech spam builds is OP. Don't you hear how many TLMs are calling it that?



DeathGuard -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 16:47:37)

@Turkish: I agree with you

@Isaiah: TMs are already pretty much screw and you want to nerf one of the few builds that can compete with TM class, come on dude, light up and make a counter build, as many TMs tried to counter Strength Builds and now CH's tanks and high dex builds.



Prime Assassin -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/5/2012 16:53:50)

at least give tech mages their chance to shine since yesterday everyone started using it. there was only 3 people before the nerf of tlm and ch.



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