RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/7/2012 4:24:43)

Hmm. I agree with the Static Charge being passive, but with a catch. It works on all attacks EXCEPT Strike, unless the Cyber has no Energy/Bot/Gun/Aux left to use.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/7/2012 7:09:29)

Anyone thought of the possibility of removing EMP from CyberHunters? I think without that, they'll be a lot easier to fight with even if they have Plasma Armor and Static Charge



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/7/2012 11:39:24)

The ND Mallet Guy, I consider this low resistance 20-24 +1, these two lower level players had this no shield no energy
armor and only got in the mid to upper 30s on them so with these two I should have got 50+ damage but on a tact merc
with this resistance 24-29 +9 +1 I got 51 critical damage.I don't make these numbers no reason too. Awhile back they supposedly made adjustments to Plasma
rain, don't know what, so that it is used more often but as you see in battle how many level 34s do you actually see use it, very few to none at all, why,
because it does not give as much damage at high levels at high stats as you see with the hunters or merc classes multi's.
When they introduce the Plasma armor nothing was done with the Plasma Rain. Any kind of adjustment or if anything is added that has a big affect on a
skill or skills then those skills has to be adjusted as well not to loose their effectiveness and their desire.


A Plasma bolt Improves With: Technology (+1 damage at 26 Technology; +1 damage per 4 Technology after) at 121: 36-44
has a potential of 73 damage at max while Plasma Rain Improves With: Technology (+1 damage at 28 Technology; +1 damage per 4 Technology after) at
135: 39-47 +1 has only 71 potential damage at max. It is not logical that a single shot would have more damage potential than a multi shot. Which would more likely kill
one ice ball during a hail storm or a barrage of ice balls?

So the multis need to be re looked at especially in 2vs2 because there should be no reason a skill that shots a single shot get more damage than a skill that has multiple shots.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/7/2012 11:56:57)

quote:

I don't see the problem if they remove their malf. @Turkish That would be OP having 10% def and res ignore for all your attacks as a passive imagine that combined with smoke/malf and cheap shot or masscre. Its better if it improved like HA. 1% def/res ignore for lvl 1 and so on until lvl 10 when its 5% res and def ignore. That would be better since its a passive.


I still see a problem even if they remove malf, Dex Tank Healloop will still happen.

now BH is almost UP, 10% def/res ignore of shadow arts at max which requires 42 suppport which means less dex or str, Even if we say they got max shadow arts 10% def/res ignore with high str. If you got 30 def. They will do only 3 more dmg which is a fair buff.

Also after plasma armor removed CH will also need small buff, and shadow arts really needs a non luck related bonus to be a real passive.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/7/2012 12:00:32)

@turkish So you want to bring back Diamond Blades but just try hiding it in a less powerful skill so people don't shoot down your suggestion of bringing it back?



TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/7/2012 12:04:39)

^I dont know how powerfull Diamond Blade was, Is that got 10% def/res ignore at max? Maybe those times it was OP but now BH seriously need a buff.

Btw BH keep get nerfs and other classes keep gets buffs. BH is UP. I dont see any difference between Merc and BH. With a Merc i can beat BH easyly.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/7/2012 12:14:07)

@turk You fail to remember that both Hunter classes have defense debuffs and therefore your 30+ defenses you used are really going to be around 20. That's only 2 damage extra for each and every attack you use. In the course of the battle you get an extra 8 damage, maybe more. Strength builds for both CH and BH are on terms with that of BM if not slightly behind it. BMs lack the accuracy and damage boosts of BH though. If a BM gets EMPd, they're stuck with strike and maybe one other skill. But when a BH is EMPd, they usually get left with the energy for a Cheap Shot which will ignore another 10% at minimum and have a 25% chance to critical. How many players ever live past a Massacre from a Str Hunter? I know I never have despite all my damage and health back from Bloodlust.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/7/2012 12:29:23)

^If bh got defense debuff other classes also got defense buff, when a TM open Def matrix (+25 defense) what can a BH really do? Than TM will SC which gives 30% hp back and ignore 20% resist.

With str build you cant max Shadow arts or if you max shadow arts you cant have high str because of the support requirement. And Shadow arts will not work with cheap shot so it will not be 10% def ignore + 10 % from shadow.

I can live with UP BH im just saying no one really use that class because its UP. BM can easly defeat BH (gun-fireball-aux-rage gun or berserker) , TM can easyly defeat BH with Def matrix and SC, TLM can easyly defeat it with Tank healloop, CH can easyly defeat it with Dex tank healloop + EMP, its 50% win chance for Merc.

I dont see any difference between Merc and BH.

And BHs need to wait 3 turns to open massacre unlike Berserker + Fireball

Im done asking buff for BH, live with an UP class, i got enough varium to change the OP classes.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/7/2012 12:36:40)

@turk So you're saying that because a player can counter your Smokescreen that you should have a way to get past that counter? If the game would be balanced by BHs ignoring defenses, then other classes wouldn't be able to shield against them. But they can and if you want to get past it, you can not smoke them so they don't shield, or you can smoke after they shield, or you could put points into Poison instead, or maybe a Cheap Shot as well. A str build can easily have Max Shadow Arts. I ran a 4 focus Str Hunter build and it worked quite well. So what if I have to put in a couple extra stats to support to get a Maxed SA and some extra damage?



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/7/2012 13:00:40)

Static Charge -> Passive Energy Regain Blood Lust.


ED Team please implement, let it run for a week or two, and then we'll see.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/7/2012 15:32:39)

Joe, I actually did suggest that as well! xD It'd be good at least to test and give us a choice which we prefer as it favours all builds, not just Str which get higher Energy return.
Of course that would work if they return CH to their old skill-tree as now, with Plasma Armor, it'd be way too strong!

But overall, I do still think it's quite good idea and worth of testing. :)



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/7/2012 23:42:05)

@hun Perhaps because a move hitting 2 people will add up to more damage than if it just hit one person? And the fact that it hits two people instead of just one.



Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/8/2012 1:13:25)

I am do hope these 80% utility bots are respectfully dealt with. As many mentioned, builds based on strategy will not compete because it negates patience and passiveness. Either max skill or high strength builds will be most prevalent at the higher levels with no way to defense it.

I adore my passive build that I have used in many versions throughout the phases of this game. I don't mind loosing, but I do dislike not having the ability to compete in the manner I enjoy. There is no reason these utility bots carry so much weight in this game where skill set, build type and stats invested should reign a priority.



...NDS... -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/8/2012 1:24:25)

Guys wanna make classes balanced for starters , remove hybrids plasma armors and mineral , its not right a those class can abuse other stats because they have extra armor either remove them or give them to every class , add energy recovering moves to every class , improve assimilation to the point where its equal to atom smash and emp . People keep moaning classes are OP what makes a class OP is simply the hybrid /plasma armor / mineral armor , is stupid how tlm mercenary and ch can abuse strengh / support builds and still have more resistance and more defences then a solid mage build .



huuduy1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/8/2012 3:12:35)

Buff : Technician,Intimidate and Field Commander <- 1 stats = 3 Support ( 4 is too much :( )
Nerf : Supercharge, Reroute and Fireball ( fireball doesn't show improves with ) : Supercharge 10% ignore and cost more Energy
Reroute : -5% at lv 10 and Fireball cost 1 damage = 6 Strength :)



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/8/2012 5:30:14)

The Blood Mage Class has to sacrifice so much to get the little damage we get for to get any benefit out of Plasma Rain in 2vs2 a Blood Mage would have to have tech 140+ (40-48+) all because they never adjusted it when they raised the level cap or when they introduced a new energy passive and if it is true the damage is split up between two players then it will be quite clear that the damage between all multi's are not as equal as some believes. Due to short staffing there is lack of proper testing in 2vs2 and 2vs1. Because of requirements on equipment a Blood Mage defense are weak, strength is weak, aux is weak to get 140+ tech and if energy is low to compensate for anyone of these weaknesses then EMP or Atom smash will take away the only power the Blood Mage has. If a Tech Blood Mage wants any power from the pistol then they have to have it on max Deadly Aim but then comes the 42 support requirement so there goes the high tech and with that you are lucky to get 135 tech (39-47).

So Plasma Rain has to be looked into and adjusted so that the Blood Mage could have better defense while getting better damage from their multi maybe a double strike multi one of fire one of Plasma improving with tech and strength.



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/8/2012 5:32:41)

^
OR: Replace Fireball with Assimilate.

No more UBER STR Abuse, you get to drain EP.



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/8/2012 6:04:03)

@NDS
But don't forget , Mercs don't have a defensive buff , offensive debuff and a HP healing basic attack ( read : skills like Frenzy and Blood Lust . Besides , Merc's UP because of them too easy to screw and they need more luck than the rest of the classes ., but yeah i agreed on the parts where CH and TLM ( mostly CH ) are OP .

@the ones who're handling balance
Please remove FC and replace it back to Smoke buuuut remove MA and replace it with DM . Also remove PA to CH and replace it with either Energy Shield or Technician .CH wasn't super UP back then when they got their SC buff .



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/8/2012 10:37:30)

Another easy Non-Burst counter:

Put a 1 turn warm-up for Plasma Bolt/FireBall.



Oliver Bell -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/8/2012 12:20:15)

Personally I am thinking of quitting until the classes' balance has stabilised. I am willing to accept tactical merc was overpowered and I guess removing smoke solved that issue but it has now left tactical merc slightly behind other classes, it has 2 basically useless buff skills (bloodshield and field commander) as well as a stun grenade. Some skills like reroute and surgical strike are helpful and frenzy may still help strength builds; toxic grenade and stun grenade have some use but only if you heavily invest points into them. In my view it would be more balanced if stun grenade was switched back to maul, since removing smoke has removed the best/any way for tactical merc to do decent damage against high defence builds except by using artillary strike, a multi attack.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/8/2012 12:53:09)

@Oliver Bell Agreed.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/8/2012 15:04:22)

@oliver
1. Blood Shield lasts 5 turns, and the resistance it gives you will save you more health than if you didn't cast it at all.
2. Field Commander gives a huge strength boost and using a very vague description of a build I made up off the top of my head a TLM managed a 74% out of 50 battles with it. That was just a rough draft of the build with absolutely no numbers to it besides what stats he should have and what skills he should use and how. FC is one of the most underrated skills in the game and still is. I used it amazingly back in Beta and that was before it easily gives out 50+ strength like today's FC.



Ashari -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/8/2012 17:28:33)

quote:

A Plasma bolt Improves With: Technology (+1 damage at 26 Technology; +1 damage per 4 Technology after) at 121: 36-44
has a potential of 73 damage at max while Plasma Rain Improves With: Technology (+1 damage at 28 Technology; +1 damage per 4 Technology after) at
135: 39-47 +1 has only 71 potential damage at max. It is not logical that a single shot would have more damage potential than a multi shot. Which would more likely kill
one ice ball during a hail storm or a barrage of ice balls?

@Hun Kingq: Realism really can't be taken into account when you're talking about balance, especially when you're trying to bring up the physical properties of a fictional ball of plasma. Plasma Rain can hit 2 targets, therefore its damage progression will be lower than an equivalent skill that hits only 1 target.

As for Plasma Rain, with a damage potential of 69 at 121 Tech, on a target with 20-24 +1 resistance, you should be doing anywhere from 44 to 49 damage. Doing damage in the 30s isn't possible unless the opponent had Energy armor or Energy Shield up.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/8/2012 17:55:33)

of all you posters you could reply to and you pick the delusional one ^^ :)

by now most of those who post in the balance topics are aware of the fantastical posts of mr Hun Kingq.



DeathGuard -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/8/2012 18:57:49)

quote:

Buff : Technician,Intimidate and Field Commander <- 1 stats = 3 Support ( 4 is too much :( )
Nerf : Supercharge, Reroute and Fireball ( fireball doesn't show improves with ) : Supercharge 10% ignore and cost more Energy
Reroute : -5% at lv 10 and Fireball cost 1 damage = 6 Strength :)
Nope the way buffers work is okay, else they will overused it and play as tank.
Nerfing Supercharge? What the ... really? It is weak against Surgical Strike and Massacre so you want to nerf it? Make it more unfair? NO. Reroute works fine plus Fireball requires hell of strength to make it worth so why does it needs 6 strength? If it is changed, other skills as well should be changed that way.



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