RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 0:40:35)

Thank you Remorse for backing up my statement, Azrael is just way to much now. I mean sure, it's seasonal rare and meant to be powerful, we lived with it:accepted.
But removing another Bot's special effect, which is also seasonal rare, is plain unfair.

Either we reduce Azrael effect to below 50% or like BioBorg, or we make it 70% and not allowed to reduce antoher Bot's special effect. I am sure(hope) that this is a minor mistake overseen by the staff, i hope they will deal with this matter ASAP.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 0:44:42)

I would be happy if they just made it so azreal bot couldnt reduce thorns, after all thorns is no buff on stats and defences.

Azreal doesnt reduce Bloodlust/reroute so why Should it reduce thorns!!

Also aparntly it was a bug for azreal to be useable only once per battle, I thought it was actuly a very inteleigent balance decesion.

How do they think that th yeti is too storng to be usable more then once yet azreal one of the worst balance destroyers is balanced enoughed to be used more then once...

I really dont understand there reasoning.



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 0:47:59)

I can accept any mistake, no matter the cost/effect, as long as it will be dealt with fast and to the point. For now the Staff should get down to this issue and make Azrael lose its effect on BioBorgs' Thorns ability.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 0:49:12)

^ Thats the problem, in there eyes it is not a mistake.




RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 0:58:45)

Hmmm , Focus builds seem to be easier to kill ( especially BH ) and weaker . Why? Because getting the +30 Damage to Bot forces them to have their builds stuck on 45 minimum base stats and rely heavily on Enhancements , because if they don't have 'em , well , you already know.....

Now to Support Builds ... the FM nerf was too great for them , i mean it would be okay if they can still improve FM but only in a slower rate ( like at 25 Support , +1 Health , then +1 Health for every 5 Support afterwards ) and apparently , the "balance team" made it worse , as if removing the Deflect on Support and put it on TECH would improve it . It would have been better if they weaken FM's progression and reduce Crit chances by 13% ( IIRC it was said to be 20% after Support weakened ) and only reduce Rage rate instead of gaining more Rage , so that STR won't be the only dominating stat so far.

Dexterity Builds ... TM and CH so far have the best DEX builds since it the benefits they get are better than the other classes ( TM's Technician and SC ; CH's Multi + DEX for SC's accuracy ) . But sometimes it seems useless because of my opponents having the chance to block even if their Block Chances is beyond -1% and them most of the time hit me with blockables .

Technology Builds ... I find BH more effective at this one since i can do the EMP + Smoke + Mass Combo at everybody i can take down . Merc , however , is also good in this field...but not as durable as before and it's so easy to screw their builds , simply having an EMP Grenade that burns 35+ EP . I'm not saying BH is OP , but rather , saying Merc is , i dunno how long but it's very long , still in UP status .

Now i was wondering... why CH just got nerfed slightly and TLM got the greater nerf ? I mean , CH can actually beat BH , Merc , BM and TM before since a few EMPs can kill 'em . TLM was pretty OP before CH got their PA , but that doesn't mean that give CH with skills like PA only because a lot of people think the class is UP , but actually it isn't . Reroute + Passive Armor + Atom Smasher ? This breaks the law of balance , so it's better if the team just remove the Passive Armor . That way , every class has a chance to beat it while it being good and can beat the other classes as well , so what i was simply trying to say was to buff and change some stuff at the other classes .




Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 1:06:13)

Passive armors may be effecting the game in a bad way, but then again it makes ED diverse, and as a CH, i can live without my Plasma Armor, but each skill is unique in its own way, regardless the difference whether is Passive defense or passive resistance. The point of passives are to make classes more durable, and to make that balanced, passive armored classes usually have no energy-regain, or very little energy-regain. Or perhaps have been nerfed. But the point of passive is not separating classes from 'OP' and 'UP' but it's to make the game/battle more diverse, and add a new field of play style. Some may disagree to my statement but I am fine with that.

Now back to the main topic: Azrael Bot [:D]



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 1:10:33)

@Ar
Well i'm not saying Merc should get their HA removed , since that it doesn't have Smoke/Malf , what i'm saying is that why the "balance team" hasn't touched Merc after they get their HA nerfed ( it was a nerf beause they have no skill that's powered by DEX ) and not finding ways to make it in par to other classes . And i didn't said all passives make things bad , it's just that TLM was an example before of not give HA to BH and TM before the new classes were made .



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 1:21:11)

Well Mercenaries are pretty advanced for their class(starter one), i have made some test accounts in the past and Mercenaries did great. Their HA was quite powerful, I used one of my 'tests' and i smoked+str+cheap and i did around 9-11 damage. And their bunk is a great skill to max out in the beginning. But as mercenaries level up, i understand their 'UPness' if u call it that way, compared to other classes. But many do not use it the way i works;Diversity.

Out of mercs i have faced, almost 80% had max bunk, max artillery, and a few maul and berzerk. I mean come on, that is a boring build we have seen for the past 4 months. 20% had pretty fun and cool builds i have seen, like 5 intimidate, maul, 4 heal and etc. Of course it may look weird and useless, but their record was great, a ratio of wins and losses like this; 1v1 10:2 2v2 10:4.

It was because they dared to try and experiment. And it worked. Mercenary is not at all a dead useless class, you just have to open your mind. And so Mercs should be a proud community of what they are.

Perhaps HA was considered a nerf, but it didn't stop them trying.



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 1:24:02)

quote:

Well Mercenaries are pretty advanced for their class(starter one), i have made some test accounts in the past and Mercenaries did great. Their HA was quite powerful, I used one of my 'tests' and i smoked+str+cheap and i did around 9-11 damage. And their bunk is a great skill to max out in the beginning. But as mercenaries level up, i understand their 'UPness' if u call it that way, compared to other classes. But many do not use it the way i works;Diversity.

That was before HA got nerfed , and besides , at high levels , it isn't so great .


quote:

Out of mercs i have faced, almost 80% had max bunk, max artillery, and a few maul and berzerk. I mean come on, that is a boring build we have seen for the past 4 months. 20% had pretty fun and cool builds i have seen, like 5 intimidate, maul, 4 heal and etc. Of course it may look weird and useless, but their record was great, a ratio of wins and losses like this; 1v1 10:2 2v2 10:4.

True , but that's because unblockables were strong at low levels .




Chosen 0ne -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 1:42:05)

We need smoke back, lol.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 6:37:06)

*cough* To everyone talking about the Bots and useable more than once per turn. *cough*

I did suggest lowering %s down of Azrael and Assault + make it useable just once per turn for a strategical reasons. And Azrael debuffing Bioborg makes sense really, what Bio gives you is a buffer which Azrael can obviously debuff. There's no reason to call the bot useless and balance crap again, Remorse, like you did in other threads when you found out about Azrael+Bio as you were happy before you knew which completely makes no sense.
BL and Reroute are passives so cannot be affected by Azrael, Thorns is a buffer that reflects damage so can be reflected. Problem is NOT with Azrael Bot, problem is with %s of Assault and Azrael Surely if it was 50% debuff, then you'd be left with 25% of Bio which reflects 5 damage back per every 20 damage as opposed to 2 damage at 10%.



Oba -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 7:13:28)

quote:

That was before HA got nerfed , and besides , at high levels , it isn't so great .


I changed to Merc yesterday. This far I have tried a high tech/tank build and a STR build. The high tech build failed, but the STR build worked surprisingly good. Sure it cannot really compete vs CH's. But overall it works quite well.



Leprechaun -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 7:36:54)

Rusted asault bots are out of control! Almost every one has it so buffs dont work no more. Solution:
1.Double or triple the price.
2.Lower the drop chance.
3.Make it perma rare.
What do you think? I think balance is destroyed :D



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 7:44:35)

1. And make it unavailable for everyone? Gap is smaller for a reason, why make items unobtainable and cost almost 30-40K Credits?
2. It's already low, people are lucky enough or do 2v2 where chance is x2 higher than 1v1. *kinda obvious*
3. Defeats the purpose of releasing the item and closing the gap?

%s should be only lowered, that's for all Bots but Bio Borg. We've mentioned it quite a few times in previous thread as well.



Leprechaun -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 7:56:36)

Quotes from ''PVP drops-what have you won'':
quote:


2 Rusted Assault Bots
8 Rusted Assault Bot
Rusted Assault Bot x2
10 Rusted Assault Robots


Not to mutch? :D



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 7:58:50)

Luck. It's low chance and depends on luck, I have alts and play on them and didn't get a Bot at all, just 4-5 Rusted weapons and Broken weapon once. I'm unlucky, they are lucky - it's all about luck.



Leprechaun -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 8:03:28)

Well i am unlucky and eaven i got 1 :D



SylvanElf -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 19:08:28)

Why is no one mentioning the huge STR BloodMage problem?! Now that they made some reasonable changes to TLM the class-hoppers switched to STR BM. No chance to win if they go first or if you don't get a lucky block on their berserker.
And don't tell me just build for it, perhaps a dex CH or tech TLM can outtank these guys, but that's about it.



Oba -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 19:13:23)

^ I play as a MERC, and I have no problem against them either. I also was BM before I changed to Merc and I can tell that BM NOT is good.. Sure you get a few fast wins, yet you lose even more..



Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 19:49:44)

Booster cool down, no reason why someone should wait 4 turns to heal 40 more while you can use 2 boosters consecutively to heal for 25 each time.



AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 20:20:06)

^
Nevah! Dat helps to rage lolpwn tanks lol.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/11/2012 23:10:13)

NØT exactly sure why my fellow players are discussing drops so vigorously, I'm someone who has done about 100 battles since that update (lets say 100 victories), and still haven't a drop!



Goony -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/12/2012 0:03:04)

Can bludgeon be toned down a little bit? It's too strong for the energy cost and giving Tech Mages a huge advantage in the cap level battles.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/12/2012 0:13:02)

@goony Consider this. Double Strike, a Tier 1 skill that does damage of the element of the weapon. And consider this too. Bludgeon, a skill forced to be Physical that is Tier 2. The limitation of the damage type and the tier difference between the two skills is justified by an extra 5% damage at 5 less cost.



Goony -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (3/12/2012 0:33:51)

^ Pfft, when they can do 40 on rage when it is level 1 on 30-36 def (rage ignores hybrid, so I won't mention the +6 def) it's too strong. Don't bring tiers into this, the skills are scattered and have no reason. 5 less cost is a lot, that's 1/3rd less for same damage on a class that regains energy. I can't see any reason that you have to justify that it is fine. Forced physical and tier difference, come on ND is that the rational for a skill that improves with weapon damage, the Tech Mages don't even need str, they just need a 34 damage weapon. Perhaps it was fine when it was calculated using str damage... It isn't now!

Intimidate does nothing to these skills that improve with weapon damage, I did mention that when they changed the calculation method, but as usual the consequences of the changes are not always factored into the outcomes... Balance was always a concern during early Beta, now the devs just ignore it most of the time! Case in point the mercenary class, nerfed to the extent that there are very few top level varium players even using the class. If the devs want to make a lot of money they should buff the class, then 99% of the players would change!

As Arcanis mentioned before... Ka Ching...




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