RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (Full Version)

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liy010 -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:33:13)

How about we just get rid of Win/Losses in the first place.



ND Mallet -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:33:49)

@prime The first person to use a Spell Build with Beta Weapons was BarneyStillPwnsU. This was before the spells were reduced in energy cost and before heal looping was nerfed(even though he healed only one time during the battle with me).



goldslayer1 -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:34:08)

quote:

Yeah I see your point. I doubt they will ever scrap those kinda statistics on a game that is driven by PvP though, would be nice if NPC wins didn't count at least.
would be hilarious seeing certain players wins plummet 85% or something crazy


well yeah its a pvp game.
but whats better, win loss records, or no win loss record? look at the pros and cons.
pros by far outweigh the cons. plus its just simply better overall to have no record aside from the amount of battles u been in.

and actually, im kinda glad there are NPCs.
its the only thing that balance my unlucky battles to win battles. as well as keep decent 90% ratio. if i went on with constant battles every day. my % average would probably be 80%-85%. NPCs help me keep it at 90%-94%

altho if i dont get many unlucky battles, where the match is actually decently fair as far as luck factors go, it will turn out like 95%+



Prime Assassin -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:37:42)

^ mallet i'm talking about the 140ishhp the 120-140 enegry version. and after the buff of the plasma bolt and plasma rain. not the ones from gamma and beta. but the ones from delta.



goldslayer1 -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:39:08)

quote:

How about we just get rid of Win/Losses in the first place.

thats what we're trying to do. lol

get rid of wins and losses. leave battles where they are. and bam, problem solved.
it would solve many issues.



ND Mallet -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:41:17)

@prime His build had high health and didn't even need high energy. Does it matter when it was made? It was still made before you made it so you weren't the original creator. No one has the right to say they created a build of any type unless they are very early Alpha players or Titan, NW, BT. There are exceptions to this rule considering new skills have been made but even then, the staff have made those builds beforehand to see how they worked and if they needed changed power wise.



Prime Assassin -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:43:02)

^ thats true but as u said "he didn't even need the high engery" therefore making the build i have different.



goldslayer1 -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:44:26)

quote:

No one has the right to say they created a build of any type unless they are very early Alpha players or Titan, NW, BT. There are exceptions to this rule considering new skills have been made but even then, the staff have made those builds beforehand to see how they worked and if they needed changed power wise.

hmmm.
how about if the class was completely new, like in delta. [:)]

but anyways, all builds aside.
mallet can u tell us what u think of this change.
what are ur views. how do u think it benefits the game, the community, and the players?



TurkishIncubus -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:45:22)

% already lost its importance, who brainwashs have higher % , who npc all day have higher %, who start wins. No one really care % cause higher win decide the winner in everything, Ratio only work for demoralize ppl.

So i support, remove % and loses



Stabilis -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:47:49)

What about showing these since they are decently important :

•# of kills per hour

•average length in time per battle



ND Mallet -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:49:58)

@gold
1. The new classes were tested extensively before they were released as are any changes to the classes. Chances are a build was made and tested by a tester before they were released to the public.
2. This suggestion won't change anything. People will still NPC instead of PvP. Balance will still be bad. People don't like losing. This won't make you win more. This will only hide how much you lose from the public. You will still know you're losing against a certain type of class or build multiple times despite your best effort. This really does nothing at all besides make the noobs look more presentable. I remember many faction enthusiasts being against this suggestion awhile back because they didn't want to recruit noobs in their factions with really low win rates(yes, it's possible to have good win rate with not so great weapons either).



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:50:01)

Prime you are 100% correct. 2vs2 is becoming full of more and more Mages by the minute. Blood Mages and Tech Mages alike. Everyone is quickly returning to the old SC build(that is now OP) and these new tech spam builds that are also OP. More and more players are seeing this newfound power and all TLMs and CHs are jumping the boat especially TLMs and fleeing to TMs and BMs. In no time 2vs2 will become full of them. Maybe even 1vs1.



Prime Assassin -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:53:48)

^yup but also saying that, caster mage does have many weaknesses. give it 2 weeks and everyone will know all casters tactics and easily beat them.



goldslayer1 -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:58:56)

quote:

1. The new classes were tested extensively before they were released as are any changes to the classes. Chances are a build was made and tested by a tester before they were released to the public.

after the release plasma armor, i find that hard to believe. and actually when i made the str TLM, i talked to cindy a couples minutes/hours after.

she told me no one tested the str tlm (in fact she said it didn't even cross her mind to try it) (and im not making this up either). that they only tested support, and that the class was fine.
extensive testing? whoever tested tlm, obviously wasn't looking for the meanest, most gruesome, brutal, instense, skull crushing build out there.
neither did they test every angle.
the same can be said of plasma armors release.

im sorry that i have to disagree with u on that mallet. i just dont believe it when someone says they extensively tested.
either they didn't test it, or the testers weren't really (idk what word to use so ill just use this one) capable to look for OP builds, or holes in a class.


quote:

2. This suggestion won't change anything. People will still NPC instead of PvP. Balance will still be bad. People don't like losing. This won't make you win more. This will only hide how much you lose from the public. You will still know you're losing against a certain type of class or build multiple times despite your best effort. This really does nothing at all besides make the noobs look more presentable. I remember many faction enthusiasts being against this suggestion awhile back because they didn't want to recruit noobs in their factions with really low win rates(yes, it's possible to have good win rate with not so great weapons either).


and actually it would do something. if this were done, i would be more willing to go out and battle using builds i didn't use before because they were under-performing. builds that would get bad %s, now i can enjoy using those without a record being kept.

this would also allow more creativity in people without having to worry about records.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:59:31)

@Prime True if you can get around their high energy damage by having high res and still being able to deal high physical damage then you can beat them. I'm just gonna wait tell the next balance update and see what changes. I don't wanna retrain and have something change and mess up my build when the update comes. Besides me getting higher res wont help that much against the TMs since most of you guys are var and I'm not.



Algorithm -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 14:03:39)

@ND, please explain to me why "No one has the right to say they created a build of any type unless they are very early Alpha players or Titan, NW, BT". Let me state my views on this . . . From where I see it everyone has the right to say they created a build, since when can players copyright their builds anyways lol. Also I see players say that they created a build and what not all of the time, but if they can't prove it, what does it matter? Players say they are admins all the time, does it mean anything? Long story short, players are gonna say whatever makes them feel good and if saying they created a build does just that, they will say it.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 14:03:53)

@IsaiahtheMage

Which require slow gameplay, 1 day if i face with an energy drainer- healer res tank , i will leave my char and let him kill me in 20 min LOL(Just For Fun)

cause they need to keep EMPing to not give us 29 energy and thats so funny they lose alot turn for only 1 win :P



ND Mallet -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 14:07:01)

@al There is no plausible way to prove that someone is the original creator of a certain type of build so there is no right for anyone to say they are the original creators of it unless they are testers, Admins, or very early Alpha players(this one is stretching it because even then it would be hard to prove you created a build before anyone else did).



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 14:08:16)

@Turkish I don't understand what you're trying to say.



goldslayer1 -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 14:09:33)

@isaia
a caster mage vs a res tank, using EMp or atom. will beat the mage. thats what he's trying to say.

so the shortcut. when u find a huge res tank, and the first thing he does is EMP or atom. just quit the match and move because u already lost.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 14:22:00)

@Gold I see. Then yep that pretty much sums it up.



Algorithm -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 14:22:20)

@ND, with that said ("There is no plausible way to prove that someone is the original creator of a certain type of build . . .") goes back to what I was trying to get at earlier, if they can't back it up with proof it doesn't matter that they claimed the build. Obviously if you are smart enough to realize "There is no plausible way to prove that someone is the original creator of a certain type of build . . .", you'd just ignore them and go on with your day.

Edit: Unless of course, you were questioning them of what proof they had to prove their statements.



dracule1984 -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 16:10:52)

ONE WORD.. SUPPORTED !!!! Games like AQW are successful because they don't have win/loss ratio!! and if Epic duel follows the same idea, i think we can solve this balance issue once and for all!! no win loss ratio, no worries about losing, no trollers like Trans or Remorse.. happy community. more time for the developers to actually spend time on releases and story line !! Cool post.. love the idea!!



Prime Assassin -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 16:13:52)

^thanks now thats the type of feedback i love to hear :P



Ranloth -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 16:18:21)

I just wanna say: AQW is NOT a PvP game. It has the feature but is not a PvP game. <_>



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