RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 5:55:38)

I'm against % based Armors! Sorry but that's Tanks' time to abuse it and people with like 20-25 Def/Res would get max of 4-5 Def/Res at Lvl 10. That's worse than current HA and it's normal build I've used, Tanks would get much more which is a bit wrong. Armors are fine with how they are, I don't think they need changing number wise. :P

Well I removed improving stats from EMP for obvious reasons. Doesn't matter if BH or CH, they can get higher EP and Tech build and just spam it. And they take off too much Energy even at Lvl 1, with moderate Tech whilst Atom Smasher may miss and requires more points put into it + higher Str to get same amount as EMP and still can be blocked. EMP should have improving stats removed completely, it's abused too much.



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 5:58:39)

Wait, it BUFFs the Tanks?

Disregard my idea then. /facedesk

What if the armors slowly deteriorate?

Like I suggested before: (Wow, I seem to be resuggesting a lot of stuff, don't I?)

1st Turn: Passive Armor 75%
2nd Turn: Passive Armor 100%
3rd Turn: Passive Armor 75%
4th Turn: Passive Armor 60%

Loop repeats after the 4th turn.

@Below, I tested with calculator, at 28 BASE DEF/RES, they'd get +10. Which is kinda the same as now, my idea was for stopping those STR CHs that hide behind their sturdy energy armor.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 6:01:05)

Yeah, the higher Base Res and Def is, the more boost they get.



BadLT -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 6:07:56)

i agree , ch and Tm just abuse the armors , especially with energy regain , they become impossible to kill without astronomical malf :3 or any other skill that reduces stats
(which brings me back to the fact that mercs are UP)

Might i suggest some sort of stat lower for mercs? Sort of like Malf or smoke cloud (or whatever its called)
would be a great addition ...



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 6:21:38)

@drinde
Players wouldn't be too happy if their Armor was getting weaker, then stronger. Usually they go for exact values to improve their build, this would make it weird. And current HA? That'd fail. xD
Str CHs? I ignore statements that are "Keep Plasma for CHs!" as many players want to get rid of it, hence why your suggestion wouldn't be as needed because it's a needed nerf to CHs but unneded for TLMs and Mercs. :P

@BadLT
We already have Intimidate, it can work quite good. Blue Katz had idea how to improve Adrenaline + I suggested old Hybrid Armor to be back for Mercs to give them appropriate buff as Blood Shield is gone and split HA isn't doing as well with no other choice to defend (no Res/Def buffer).



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 6:23:05)

Maybe. :3

What about my old idea (*sigh*) of percentages for DMG reduction on Intimidate?



BadLT -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 6:23:11)

i have noticed and i agree, basically this way we can invest in res for example and setup hybrid armor for +11 def , then our other poitns can be put into str or supp or Hp/Energy
intimidate only works on CH/BM/BH otherwise , its useless on caster classes :3



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 6:28:35)

@BadLT
It may be useless on Caster Classes but it's still good. I can say Smoke and Malf is useless on all classes due to Assault Bot, and Azrael Bot with buffing skills. I just proved the same point as you did. xD But to take down Caster TMs, you can think of other strategy and old HA would help you as you'd switch it for +11 Res. It goes together. :P

@drinde
Rabble said that FC and Intimidate will be worked on (buffed/changed) and someone suggested along with you %s debuff for Intimidate. It'd work fine with good values and making it lower Str as it does now is best choice, to keeo it as it is. It'd be useful against Str builds but one issue - if it takes away % of Str, then it's weak against those with lower Str who we may want to lower further (let's say 40 Str and we want to make him deal low damage so lower it using current Intimidate by -30 Str). So if new one was to take off 40% of Str, then it'd be 16 in my case. It's a bit but if enhancements are counted then cross that! :P



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 6:36:26)

I intend that it lowers the Primary's base DMG Boost, weakening Primary % skills as well as normal strikes.



BadLT -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 6:38:37)

I like it , removes a % of all damage dealt by attacks ( including spells ETC)
this would really balance mercs...



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 6:40:11)

Remember that BMs have it as well guys! :P
I like it as well, but wouldn't it be weaker if it's Primary =/= Primary + Gun? You could always raise %s though as it weakens just Primary, instead of Gun as well.



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 6:41:44)

I didn't even state the % yet. :3

I wish them DEVs would keep an archive of the good suggestions, so we can know whats possible in the future. [8|]



BadLT -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 6:43:07)

such archives would be huge, because there are many players like ourselves who make valid suggestions , it would be very difficult to keep note of every single suggestion :3



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 6:47:29)

Then make your own suggestion post! :D Like me and Void do on 1st page. :P



BadLT -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 6:50:33)

Offtopic : Thanks trans ! that works out well
Ontopic : I still think blood mages are just buffed mercs :P



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 6:51:16)

I'd say mix of BH and Mercs really. :P And no problem, feel free to PM me again if you need help! ^_^

@below
That's why I started 3 thread ago. ;)



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 6:53:33)

I would, but I dread the task of digging through 5+ musty old Balance Threads. /shudder



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 7:07:47)

Requirements, requirements, requirements.

Requirements, why do you hold me back?



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 8:07:44)

Lol taking out requirements, was that what you were implying? Might work, sounds quite balanced if everyone receives the same treatment [:D]

@Trans

Sorry, must've 'remembered' wrong, but it was mentioned in the previous thread, anyways...


@BadLT

Chs become quite beatable as you get higher in level cap, and that's from a Merc's point of view, so once again, without a doubt, MERCS NEED A BUFF. Either give them a more 'reliable' passive, or the Hiring idea.

Then i think 8 stats per lvl is quite acceptable?
It will solve the ENH issue, and as a lv1 player, you get a extra 4base stat points when you make a new character so it's in par just like when 4stats per lvl was there.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 9:41:04)

@ BadLT


At the moment, I am using a max PA with 22-27 technology and a resistance armor of 9, giving me:


22-27+9+1+11


so it is 43-48 resistance.


I have to use max PA because, honestly, how else will we combat the tech mages with 63+52 tech and max plasma bolt with super charge?

I agree, however, that we need PA taken away. Give us technician again, because aren't we supposed to be like Tech Mages? Just a hunter form of them?

Like the Blood Mage is the mage form of Bounty Hunter?


@trans ( I think) Giving us E SHield would allow a high amount of abuse. We would have two defensive skills improving with support.

I know from experience how amazing support is for a cyber. I used to have 56+62 support, giving me a 36+ malf at level 1 and a defense matrix of 36 st level 1.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 9:42:46)

Once again, I want E Shield to be improving with Tech. This is my original suggestion, not make it Support just like Matrix.



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 9:47:25)

Ok. I didn't read that part lol. That sounds pretty good actually.

:D


And having technician would allow to have another skill improve with dexerity.


I just am worried about a passive, because cybers were mad about not having 2 passives in thebeginning.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 10:03:32)

For SC, that's where "passive" comes (Void's suggestion):
quote:

Static Charge: A percentage of your Primary weapon's damage is added to your energy in a Strike. Energy restoration is unblockable, however damage is blockable. Cool-down has increased.

Energy Required: 0 (No Cost)

Conversion:
Level 1: 33% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 2: 36% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 3: 39% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 4: 42% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 5: 45% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 6: 48% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 7: 51% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 8: 54% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 9: 57% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 10: 60% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy

Weapon Required: None
Stat Required: None
Level Required: 2
Improves With: None
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 4

Energy regen is guaranteed whenever you use, damage just isn't. So even if they block, you get EP back but for the fact you always get EP back, the cooldown is raised which shouldn't be a problem with old %s. It's based on weapon damage so Str builds cannot gain as big advantage.
Most you'd regain is 21 Energy at Lvl 10 with 35 damage weapon. Ain't that bad if guaranteed and they can still Tank using other strategy. Adding damage onto it, if SC lands, makes it quite good because you don't have to get hit or invest in one stat/abuse to get most out of one skill.



Goony -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 12:37:06)

Haven't said much here lately, mercs are not as bad as what a lot of ppl are making them out to be... They can do ok in 2v2! In 1v1 there is a very narrow range of builds that work for mercenaries and the best skills we have are field medic, hybrid (pls don't change it) and intim (pls buff it)...

With the current build I'm using it is really only the high dex builds and the massive tactical mercenary tanks that cause issues... So hard to justify having dexterity on mercs as it doesn't improve any skill...



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (4/16/2012 12:59:26)

Trans if E. Shield improves with Tech, it makes no sense (Tech = Resistance anyway). It should improve with Dex.

Anyway, the cooldown on Static Charge is now way too long. That's like Field Medic cooldown! 2 is already a good time and it should stay that way.



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