RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (Full Version)

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i like bounty hunter -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/20/2012 7:13:10)

*cough*support liy010*cough*



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/20/2012 7:20:45)

I'll go view Goldslayer's opinion on that one, it just encourages Dexterity dumpers...



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/20/2012 7:39:01)

we have a stat thats immensely UP in support, but people want to give more power to dex, as if blocks weren't enough.



liy010 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/20/2012 7:53:28)

Support is not UP. I do around 30 DMG with my aux and over 55 DMG with my multi on a level 15 Merc. Not saying it OP either..



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/20/2012 8:05:35)

Stat's balance isn't measured in Class nor skill. Fact you have Multi and Aux doesn't mean Support is balanced at all. Take away Multi and you have Aux.. Really?
And it's Lvl 15 where defence doesn't matter but damage does. Look at Lvl 25+ range where defence starts to matter more, is higher, and damage it does. I was Support TM for a year, switched few weeks after deflection was moved to Technology and it doesn't do as well on top-Level. And it's been stated by Devs that Support will get a buff so it's UP.



liy010 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/20/2012 8:12:54)

Support give you the ability to gain 45 STR for 9 EP. There was this support merc that had 2-3+34 DMG (Had intimidate on him) and boom, his DMG got raised to 13-16+34 for just 9 EP (Level 1 FC)

So actually, you have an average primary and sidearm, a really strong aux and a really strong multi



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/20/2012 8:22:54)

Again, just for Mercs. Whether skill is strong or weak does not depend on Class or Skills at all.

Wait what. 45 Str for 9 Energy? What blasphemy is this? Lvl 1 FC costs 11 EP, what do you use to lower the costs?! ;o But in seriousness, Lvl 1 FC is 11 EP and to give 45 Str, you need about 140 Support. Seriously? At Lvl 34, you must neglect all the other stats including HP to get there OR have Beta Weapons. So your point is invalid already as you must abuse crap out of one stat and really lack in defence with normal weapons.
FC can be countered with Azrael Bot easily and you're left with nothing. Those without a Bot can use Shields to tank through that or kill quickly as turn wasted for FC is advantage for the enemy.

Don't judge how skill is balanced by one class and two/three skills. Lvl 15 Merc only is just small amount of data you gave us, many players give higher Level data for Support and not Mercs only.
How about Support BMs? They have 2 defensive skills that improve with it and Intimidate.. That proves Support needs a buff as Support is useless for BMs. And BHs? 2 defensive skills again. My point? Stats are not balanced by skills and classes, but their effectiveness.



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/20/2012 10:15:09)

Only reason why Mass and some other STR skills are OP it's because of the current math we have on them , thus making boss NPCs like Hank and Slayer even harder to beat , so that means even if you can screw his Primary damage , it's still gonna deal no leas that 30+damage , even with low STR ; it's also making CH and BH harder to kill , too. IMHO , the previous one was fine back then ,and i find them okay since a TM's DM can make BH deal below 10s , but the only prob there was .... the progressions . LVL 1 Mass has 86% Bonus Damage ? No wonder they seemed OP . If they hit 20-30 , their damage is high ... but try making them deal below 20 , and they'll be screwed silly . So ... i wanted the old system back... but keep the current progressions in the skills . Just my thought .



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/20/2012 11:03:14)

Replace High energy draining skills with low energy draining skills that improves with nothing and at max is only 10 energy drain points and can be blocked or deflected. The other option remove high energy draining skills completely.



liy010 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/20/2012 14:07:35)

quote:

And it's been stated by Devs that Support will get a buff so it's UP.


In this case when Deflect got moved to Tech, that could be counted as a buff to the tech stat. Does that mean tech was UP? I personally don't think so.

I think that skills are what needs buffs to support (Like FM) and not the stat itself. But, that is just my opinion.

Oh yeah trans, I'm going to send you a PM on energy drain skills and 4th teir in a couple of days...As soon as I get to a keyboard...I would just discuss it here but it's a bit old and I just noticed it...

quote:

That proves Support needs a buff as Support is useless for BMs. And BHs? 2 defensive skills again.


That is because most players now tend to go offensive than defensive because offense is better than defense in almost every way.

Example:
High STR player hits 50 DMG and his defense/resistance is 15
Tank player hits only 30 DMG and his defense/resistance is 35
They would both do 15 DMG but the STREET player will...
Get rage faster
Ignore more defense/resistance on Rage
Ignore more defense/resistance on crit

Also, both Primary and sidearm increase with 1 stat. This allows E and P Weapons. To increase defense and resistance however, you need 2 stats.

This is why STR is so OP and so dominant.

Personally, I would change it so that Rage gain has something to do with your defenses



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/20/2012 14:19:12)

Yeah buff was going to happen after deflection was moved. They promised it few months ago but we didn't get it yet. If deflection wasn't moved, we wouldn't need a buff to Support either. So yeah, that buff was promised and it's because of deflection, let's just hope it happens eventually. And skills still won't balance the stat out, not all classes will take advantage of them as much as the others but individual buff to a stat. ^^

And sure. :)



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/21/2012 2:49:09)

Is it just me or is Bounty blocking % is higher than any other class despite dex.

This just totally makes me hate myself for ever introducing Conversion ==...

Yesterday a bounty with 70dex blocked me throughout the ENTIRE battle. Ridiculous...

Not to mention i had 91dex, and i didn't even block. Sure that it's all about luck, but this is really...intolerable.

I seem to get why so many players wants luck reduced xD

Yet still i accept luck, but from what i have experienced, BHs seem to be VERY lucky >.>



Zeoth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/21/2012 2:51:30)

>_> meh I honestly think BMs should lose deadly aim QQ it hurts so much. Still encourages strength and even without strength they still do loads of damage.



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/21/2012 6:07:16)

True, thing is, BMs think they are getting the most out of STR builds, but what they don't know is that they are the ones destroying it.

DA-an awesome skill, very strategic, and very, VERY useful, depending on HOW you use it.\

TMs respect it, but BMs abuse it. BMs can be TMs, use some really good builds, with bludgeon and DA, they are like TMs-Revamped.

Some BMs use DA rightfully, others use the Bludgeon+STR+fireball+DA combo.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When is CH gona be fixed?

I am forced to either STR/Tank/Tank+multi builds :(



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/21/2012 6:57:36)

@ Arevero

I actualy can't miss my DA... as a 5 Focus Tank BM, I need it to pierce trough the resistance of Tank CH's with rage



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/21/2012 7:54:08)

@andy

I know, i ma directing it to those who abuse it ;)

Your one is fine.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/21/2012 8:05:56)

Well slower progression early on will slightly stop abusing, maybe that 1-2 damage difference but that's always something as you don't get most out of it at Lvl 2-3 already + as it progresses slower, you must train it higher thus more Support needed for requirement = lower damage. :P It's pretty much Str BMs who abuse it, all the other builds are fine with it as it gives them advantage but not guaranteed win or something. xD

I've also updated my 1st post located here: http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=20291058 - just looks neater and divided into parts. :3



Camoflague MerC -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/21/2012 8:29:51)

Strength BM is still VERY much overpowered, i made a cyber hunter build specifically to counter stregnth BM in 1v1, i go in the fight, he has 134 hp, expected skill tree, and 8-10 aux damage, i do he gets me down to about 35 hp in 2 turns with fireball+bludgeon, i heal then he rage guns next turn, seriously WTF? i didnt even give him a scratch, my build is made to specifically counter his, and he rages in 3 turns with about 20 support?



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/21/2012 8:42:03)

Support just speeds up your Rage regeneration and decreases enemy's. If you had a lot of Defence, he will Rage quicker because Rage is made specifically against Tanks so no surprise here.



Camoflague MerC -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/21/2012 22:14:22)

Its impossible for cybers to beat strength BM then [:(]



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/22/2012 4:57:51)

Not impossible, i have a STR build and i just go head to head against them, just keep attacking, don't worry about your hp, works for me most of the time. [:D]



Zeoth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/22/2012 11:07:15)

^
That's a mindless sounding build >_> Anyways their the only class I can't beat consistently, due to their rage gun and bloodlust giving them large amounts of Hp I just can't keep up. Even if I'm a tank/damage CH hybrid, I feel outclassed fighting BMs



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/22/2012 21:50:06)

I have compared all E armors I have with Delta Armor and for a Level 34 it is sub par and unbalanced protection wise compared to the passive classes with the Delta Armor or any Armor.

I tested all armors against Electro hazard without any shield or Intimidation with high tech/dex. The Delta Armor I only Blocked 1 time, the other armors physical and energy I blocked 96 to 100 percent of the time.

The Armor for that skill level should give adequate protection without the use of shields or debuff skills due to the Blood mage as everyone knows does not have any viable energy regain skills and once energy runs out only thing left to protect you is the armor. If the opponent is getting high damage with high dex and high tech then the Armor is failing at its job as protecting you.

So another balance issue between the passive armor classes and the non passive armor classes dealing with the Delta Armor needed to be brought to staff's attention.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/22/2012 21:57:46)

@hun kingq 1. They are not going to buff an armor to make classes with passive armors useless. 2. Armor has nothing to do with block rate unless it gives you Dexterity.



liy010 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/22/2012 22:27:27)

@Hun let's just say we give Classes without passive armors +12 more on their armor.

You forget that we are using 10 (CH) or 9 (TLM and Merc) skill points on our passive armor which means that BM is getting 9-10 free skill points.

NERF BM NOW



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