RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (Full Version)

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ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/25/2012 20:43:01)

@arev It's not synergy just because a class has multiple skills that all improve with one stat. It's synergy when the skills work together so nicely. Like TLMs who could abuse Technician, to increase Smoke Screen, Bots and Surgical Strike while having +12 on Physical because of Hybrid Armor(the old one that TLMs and regular mercs had before Mineral Armor). That is synergy because the skills work together nicely to make a combo that defends and increases damage. BMs on the other hand only have the capability of using 3 moves improving with strength that only help to heal them due to BL. BHs have Cheap Shop and Massacre along with Smoke Screen to increase accuracy and damage. It would be synergy if they had a skill that improves their strength with dex or tech.

Edit: @john You do realize that Malfunction is Tier 3 and not even usable by lvl 1 players right? If it were Tier 1 then it would be adjusted to where it can be used by level 1 players. They expect you to put some points into strength to be able to use it when you get high enough level to access it.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/25/2012 20:46:46)

quote:

Malfunction requires 19 strength at level 1, however the base strength for TM is 18.
I think that this should be fixed by either:

Making malfunction require 18 strength at level 1 or make the base strength for TM 19.

Any thoughts?
well you cannot have malfunction at level 1 so it just requires you to raise your strength when you reach malfunction.
you wouldn't be able to retrain without having the strength required, so it's not like a newbie is gonna mess up and not meet the requirement.



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/25/2012 22:47:31)

Some Cyber Hunter's are going out of control, i fought the same guy 2 times, and lost 2 times. He was an all-out tank, with the latest weapon, Infernal Slayer.

I had 17-21+34dmg, and i dealt 6 dmg at highest. My rage dealt 29. He EMPed, healed, static, etc.

This is absolutely pathetic seeing a class being overused to the max, and the fact that Tanking kills a battle, makes it worse. Reduce ENH from all weapons except Primary and Armor. Or just increase base lvl stats.

Because right now 5/10 battles i see are tanking, which is no fun. :(

Also Mercs new ability seems useful, i like the way it works, very strategic if it can be used that way :D



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/25/2012 23:25:29)

the balance topic accelerates to 30 pages, feels like a 3rd of that is complaints about CH Tanks that EMP, yet here we are, still doing
the same, and still being told that Plasma Armour will remain cause certain players complainied about it being removed, on facebook.

on the upside, Mercs got a 2nd buff [and another new skill] so the staff are working to balance each class individually. CH may be last
on the nerf list again though, especially if the balance tracker is showing CH performing at a similar win rate to all the other classes.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/25/2012 23:48:14)

Multiple EMPs in 2vs2 is bad but in 1vs1 it is worse, I got EMPed 3 times by the Cyber Hunter in one match and 2 times by the Bounty Hunter in another match that is being too much a relied upon skill for them to win battles. With the Delta Armor out of 20 matches I only blocked once and that was against the only one lower level so for the the level 34 players especially the Blood Mage blocking is non-existent at any level Dex.

In all 2vs2 rounds I seen today not a single player bothered with the multi skill so basically it was nerfed out of being a used skill.

So what will they do now since the multi skill is not being used?

Both Plasma Cannon and Plasma bolt I have seen lesser damage on both so was there a change made to those two skills and it was not mentioned?

I was not getting Critical damage on players with lower support than me but the ones with lower support than me was getting Critical damage so was it made that the lower support you have the higher the chance of Critical damage.

the balance issues are
blocking
high energy drain skills more so the EMP




PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/25/2012 23:52:57)

just wanted to say that I block a lot on my BM with roughly 101 dex, haven't got any complaints on that front
but the EMP of CH is ridiculous. I don't mind BH as much, as they don't have a decent energy regain.



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/26/2012 4:04:52)

Switch EMP and DM tiers, or make it fixed amounts(no improving stats).




Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/26/2012 8:04:14)

My dex is at 101 and tech is at 88 and with the Delta blocking is a miracle when it happens and I have noticed after the update the amount of deflections I use to get went down.




Jekyll -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/26/2012 8:07:05)

Hun I agree on this. Ridiculois blocks even when I have 20-40 more dex. Something HAS to be done here.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/26/2012 8:17:50)

@Hun Kingq: the BM I have 101 dex on is only level 31 so maybe that is why I block higher levels a lot, I have another BM
with Delta armour that is level capped so I will make a decent dex build and run some tests this week and get back to you.



BlueKatz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/26/2012 13:37:30)

I think Fireball and Plasma Bolt should have cooldown of 3. BM is still strong and Tech TM is really annoying now



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/26/2012 14:06:30)

quote:

With the Delta Armor out of 20 matches I only blocked once


You do know Delta Armor doesn't help Blocks, you're Dex and Luck does...

Switching EMP with DM wouldn't solve much due to it still being Easy obtainable...
I suggest:

Plasma Grenade Tier 2 ( on place of Defense Matrix )
EMP Tier 4 ( on Place of Plasma Grenada )
Defense Matrix Tier 1 ( at plasce of EMP )



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/26/2012 14:53:11)

Calogero, If you quote someone put the complete sentence instead of a snippet, mr stuck at the same 2vs2 wins as last weekend. I have tested all armors making sure stats were at the same exact number for dex and tech on each one and the Armor I got the most blocks was Tesla Armors, bunny borg and space warrior came in close 2nd, Beast Rider and harvest Husk came in a close 3rd.

Putting EMP on a different Level would not work because one it improves with a stat, two takes too much energy, three can be used multiple times. In a 1vs1 I was Emped three times if I had any more energy then that player would have Emped me 4 times.

Players of the merc class manipulated the battle tracker by deliberately having weak builds, fooling the staff the mercs are under performing and underpowered, I came across a strength merc of 34 level with max Maul and level 8 berzerker, even though I had higher support I got stunned then berzerker match was over in one and half rounds, job well done in tricking the staff.

In coming weeks we will see the true balance issues come to light, nerfing the multis was a huge mistake especially when they were not evenly matched as some of you think they were and when you go into 2vs2 look at how many uses a multi and one player does not ask them why they don't since it cost so much less energy?

Every time they add a new skill, nerf the existing skills, or replace skills new balance issues come up so how about this fix the present balance issue before making any new skill changes.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/26/2012 15:02:21)

quote:

mr stuck at the same 2vs2 wins as last weekend


I'm sorry mister I don't know how to use BloodMage... I really am...

I do am temporarely not allowed on the game due to some ' issues ' I will not continue here.

Btw I actualy still have more wins Hun




ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/26/2012 15:07:37)

@hun I highly doubt that the entire mercenary class purposely lost most battles over the course of a few months just to get a buff. There are over 2k players in ED. I would wager there are at least 200 mercenaries. To think that all 200 of them would ruin their ratios for several weeks in order to get a buff is beyond ridiculous.

Also, armors do not affect your block rate at all. The only things affecting your block rate is Dexterity and Shadow Arts. Claiming otherwise would be wrong and you can PM Ashari if you don't believe me.

And one more thing Hun. Wins do not reflect anything about a person's ability to play the game. Just because someone has less wins than you doesn't mean they're wrong and you're right.



Combatoid -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/26/2012 15:29:00)

Just incase anyone was wondering the new merc skill increases with-
Rank 1-5%
Rank 2-6%
Rank 3-7%
Rank 4-8%
Rank 5-9%
Rank 6-10%
Rank 7-11%
Rank 8-12%
Rank 9-13%
Rank 10-14%



Whirlwindstorm2 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/26/2012 15:39:24)

@hun- Wow. With you having so many wins, you should know that the type of armor has no effect at all on how much you get blocked or block. As a blood mage, the only possible thing to affect how much you block, is your dexterity. As for your testing with your different armors with the same dex, your observations were solely based on how lucky you were during each period of battling.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/26/2012 15:45:02)

Calogero, fact your wins for 2vs2 are the same from last weekend, fiction "I'm sorry mister I don't know how to use BloodMage... I really am... "

The ND Mallet Guy, does not matter how many wins you have but when a player that professes they play the game a lot and their wins barely increase and then dogs and puts down another player as if they know nothing about the game or the class I played in since the beginning of Delta and shows little respect while demanding respect shows to me that player is either bored or have some major issue. On Blocking it stats and armor go hand in hand with assisting the amount of damage you get and if you block or not. When strength mercs were on a rampage using energy primaries other Blood mages were putting up Reflex boost but when the Blood mage had technician I did not put up reflex boost but put up technician and I was blocking and was using that technique every time when I faced a strength merc/tact merc and beat them more often then most when they saw me they ran. Me and a staff figure out how to Block the gamma bot physical and energy attack both dex and tech has to be at the right level with the right type of armor. On the issue of merc class how do you know can you read players minds? The staff stated the old classes will not get knew skills and that was at the beginning of Delta and here we are a year later, the merc classes got one but two new skills while they were not underpowered or under performing as they made the staff to believe all because the staff was looking at the data and taking Players word instead of going into actual battle and seeing for themselves. What staff should have done was go into the game as mercs, with a different name that was not highlighted in green and try different builds.

Well another balance issue is the passive rmor classes can have high health and afford a -1 by defense and resistance whereas the non-passive armor classes can't afford that -1 so with the Delta Armor if I have high health I would only get +4 on defense and resistance.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/26/2012 15:54:09)

quote:

Calogero, fact your wins for 2vs2 are the same from last weekend,


Fact, I have my reasons for being Non Active and I'm Sure ND Mallet can comfirm that ;)
You keep telling me and the other players about how many ' Wins ' you have, but what is your overall Win% per Game mode?

If you can't handle Bloodmage having no Passive defenses, then jump to a class that has them otherwise stop complaining about something that isn't broken

Armors DO NOT contribute to blocking unless it says in the description ' Enhanced Blocking ". I'm pretty sure that hasn't happend yet.




liy010 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/26/2012 16:16:03)

@Andy

quote:

EMP Tier 4 ( on Place of Plasma Grenada )


See, I don't really see the point of this because all Cybers I've met have at least 1 point in Malfunction (Tier 3 that connects to all Tier 4 skills) so I could use 1 point to get a Tier 4 skill or 1 point to get a Tier 2 skill




Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/26/2012 16:24:02)

But, they have to think more about how to invest their skill points...



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/26/2012 17:54:11)

@hun 1. Show me the post where they said they wouldn't add new skills to the original classes. 2. Tell me which staff member exactly helped you prove that technology helps your block rate. 3. Even Ashari finds it highly unrealistic that mercs could all team up together in order to deceive the Balance Tracker.



Archlord Raistlin -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/26/2012 23:27:09)


Rabblefroth...

Please cut your losses and return multi to the way it used to be. This nerf did nothing to the few 1v1 players
who happen to use multi builds, but seriously hurt 2v2 play. You must also see posts related to the "non-existance"
of multi's in 2v2, so was this the original intent for 2v2 balance... TO REMOVE MULTI'S FROM PLAY???
I still battle some mages with plasma rain, but the hits are so low I cannot imagine them sticking with it.

If that's the case, then actually get rid of it for EVERYONE and give us another skill. Right now it's just
TAKING UP some valuable SPACE in our skill trees. Isn't the intent of a multi TO HIT MULTIPLE PLAYERS?
Do you even know how many LOL's you get now when someone multi's for 15 damage?

ED gathers data, interprets data and makes a million changes to "balance" 1v1. So why would your first
noticable attempt at balanceing 2v2 be to nerf out of existance A 2V2 SKILL? If you're going to keep it
the way it is, get it down to one mana cost for any use, at the single player level. Currently, for the same
amount of mana I can massacre one player for 45 or hit 2 players for 20-30 TOTAL...Seriously, which would
you choose... and how this could EVER pass the testing phase without someone saying...WOW this is horrible...
is beyond me.

If there is some semi-logical reason for this nerf. other than someone deceiving you with the math, please
post it... I, for one, liked having the choice of a multi build for 2v2. Now it makes little to no sense...




ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/26/2012 23:38:57)

@archlord It's because a Multi skill was usually a must have for any good 2vs2 build. In ED, ideal balance is that no skill is better or more necessary than another skill. Plus, Multis were great for screwing up strategy because they could easily make it so your enemy had to decide whether he needed to heal himself or his partner. That was usually almost always the case if you used a Multi at high level and with good stat boosts.



Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/26/2012 23:54:21)

But still, the effectiveness of it went down. I really wouldn't have called it necessary for 2v2 anyways, I used a 1v1 build and still beat 2 34s with a weak partner before. You are now putting in more energy for less. If lets say max was 36 and the 1v1 cost was the same then it wouldn't be as bad.



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