RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII

RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (Full Version)

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Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 15:27:56)
quote: Make Assimilation the 4th tier skill for Blood Mage replacing Reflex Boost Whoa whoa whoa, Reflex Boost is a handy utility as a Blood Mage skill. It provides a means of restoring energy for health heavy builds, and a defensive means for Support heavy builds. Why swap those 2, is this a nerf or a buff? Dexterity is not as proficient a skill when the main attack is but Overload. Melee accuracy is not something to expect with the Blood Mage skill tree, so utilizing a blockable skill is no better than Reflex Boost. Why not have Assimilation and Reflex Boost and Assimilation in the same skill tree? Reflex Boost + Assimilation = increased melee accuracy + minor Reroute effect + minor EMP effect + minor Static Charge effect.

JohnMenzies -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 15:43:16)
@Depressed Void, Do you at least support any of the three suggestion I made?

Combatoid -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 16:56:02)
@liy010 When you said that fireball was useless that was utterly false since bloodlust makes it so that the player has to have high strength. Also EMP is unblockable and Atom isn't. SC has no limit of potential energy you could gain(2 loop healer ch could go on forever) and Reroute does. In the first place I just reccomended that they either return maul or a stronger frenzy, like it once was, or add a new skill called Haze. Haze will be like smokescreen but it won't effect the player's defence against physical dmg. @ily010 Once again. Lol? Look at my previous posts about Haze. It would probably replace FC. Haze will be a VERY usefull stat in all fights. Posts merged, please do not double post. -SMGS

liy010 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 17:27:41)
Oh so all of a sudden now since you have Bloodlust you MUST have high strength? No. I know people who use 5 focus BM and they don't have high STR....Ever occur to you that you don't need to invest in Bloodlust? After all it is just a normal skill. With your logic, since CH has PA, they need high Dex so don't go spazzing about us Dex cybers I don't think you understand... FC>Haze If you're unlucky, Haze does NOTHING so you just wasted EP

Combatoid -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 17:34:01)
@ily010 Sometimes when people use smokescreen they don't get a lot of blocks. That is why Haze will need to be a more substantial effect on block chances. If you use it correctly you will definately notice something. Most of the skills such as bludgeon as BM increase with str and roughly 90% of bm's have high str

liy010 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 17:57:51)
quote: When you said that fireball was useless that was utterly false since bloodlust makes it so that the player has to have high strength. Take a look at this. Oh my god, I have Max BloodLust and Low STR! I accomplished the impossible! The point isn't about that. The point is, in your previous post you said that as long as a Class doesn't have a skill to increase Stat X, that means all skills that improve with stat X are useless Back to Haze. Look at this. Smokescreen Battle. Player A uses Smoke, does 10 DMG Player B Strikes, does 10 DMG Player A Strikes, does 15 DMG (Increased because of Smoke) Player B Strikes, does 10 DMG Player A Strikes, does 15 DMG Player B Strikes, does 10 DMG Player A Strikes, does 15 DMG In the end, Player A did 15 more DMG thanks to Smoke Haze Battle Player A uses Haze, does 10 DMG Player B Strikes, does 10 DMG Player A Strikes, does 10 DMG Player B Strikes, does 10 DMG Player A Strikes, does 10 DMG Player B Strikes, does 10 DMG Player A Strikes, does 10 DMG In the end, Player A did no more Damage and since he was unlucky, he didn't get any blocks. Haze was useless and wasted his EP

Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 18:05:01)
@JohnMenzies, I support: quote: 1. Make Assimilation steal 16 energy at max. -or- 2. Make Assimilation's energy steal unblock-able, but the damage block-able.

Renegade Reaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 19:10:46)
i support making the energy steal from assimilation unblockable.

Retrosaur -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 19:29:59)
quote: i support making the energy steal from assimilation unblockable. Then make Atom Smasher unblockable.

Combatoid -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 20:18:09)
@liy010 I get what you're saying. However Haze will decrease the block and hit chance of the enemy substantially. Such as: 1 Haze:Decreases enemy hit chance and block chance by 10% for 3 turns(as long as smokescreen) 2 Haze:13% 3 Haze:16% 4 Haze:18% 5 Haze:20% 6 Haze:22% 7 Haze:24% 8 Haze:25% 9 Haze:26% MAX Haze:27% It is sort of like shadow arts but it'll be more effective and not be a passive. It's be more like: Player A attacks Player B with Haze Player A hits 10 Player B hits 10 Player A hits 9 Player B gets blocked Player A hits 12 Player B hits 13 It won't be a big difference, but it will make the skill very effective and be gamechanging. I also suggested that ED adds Maul and a strengthened Frenzy back. This will simply restore some balance and make it a small bit easier to take on TM,BM,BH,(Mercenary not as much),and CH. I would be very thankful if these skills and suggestions were thought about. The percentages of increase for Haze won't have to be that high either. It would be like SA, it's simply an addition to the luck factor. If you don't get any blocks then you are simply unlucky. @ lit010 You more like accomplished the uncommon. Posts merged, please do not double post. --SMGS

King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 20:45:09)
Here's my two cents for Tacticals. Change Stun Grenade back to Maul. Increase Frenzy to 35% at Level 1, and make it usable by a sword. *Make Toxic Grenade require a club/maul, to balance it with Venom Strike (kinda).

Combatoid -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 20:50:33)
^ I agree, that would be a great idea. Combatoid Out.

Renegade Reaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 20:50:37)
atom smasher is a little OP, if they made it unblock able, than they should reduce its effectiveness. it takes very little energy to use but it can still take a lot of energy away, even at level 1.

King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 21:52:19)
Change to Frenzy! Currently, it is based off of how much (damage) you do. However, I propose for this to be the new formula. [(Strength Range * .75) + (Weapon Damage * .75 - Encumberance * 2)] (Frenzy Boost). Frenzy Boost is what you'd guess. So, a player with 12-15 +36 -2 Primary would get 9-11 +27 -4, or 32-34. If they have a Level 1 Frenzy (I proposed 35%), then the range would be 11.2 (rounded to 11) - 12.25 (rounded to 12).

Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 21:54:20)
@^: A level 1 Frenzy heals about 12 HP, while a level 8 static charge heals about 13-15 EP? Sounds a little too much for me.

King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 22:00:24)
If a Level 1 Field Medic at 34 heals about 33 HP for 17 Energy, then Energy is twice the value of HP.

liy010 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 22:05:58)
quote: I get what you're saying. However Haze will decrease the block and hit chance of the enemy substantially. Such as: 1 Haze:Decreases enemy hit chance and block chance by 10% for 3 turns(as long as smokescreen) 2 Haze:13% 3 Haze:16% 4 Haze:18% 5 Haze:20% 6 Haze:22% 7 Haze:24% 8 Haze:25% 9 Haze:26% MAX Haze:27% Whew, Finally. The thing about your skill is that it relies heavily on luck and knowing ED's "Luck" factor, I'd rather not take my chances. Once in 2vs2, I got hit by a Critical, 3 times in a row, by a person who had 6 Less Support than me. That shows how "Lucky" I am. I'd rather have a skill that I can see a difference such as Deadly Aim. Most CHs want Deadly Aim in exchange for Shadow Arts because well, since Plasma Grenade is super UP, no one uses it (No offence, Raine) therefore, the 10% stun chance is useless. The 10% block chance is barely noticeable and got a Mere 10%, you need it on Max. 10% increase Block chance only wins you maybe 1/10 battles? This is why I have my Shadow Arts at level 1, mostly because I have no other useful skill to put that last point into and the fact that Max PA is a bit overkill "-.- quote: So, a player with 12-15 +36 -2 Primary would get 9-11 +27 -4, or 32-34. If they have a Level 1 Frenzy (I proposed 35%), then the range would be 11.2 (rounded to 11) - 12.25 (rounded to 12). 12 HP...That's 1 point away from a Max Static Charge...Since HP is more useful than EP, I think this is a bit overkill. My suggestion for Tactical Mercs (Based off Combatoid's skill and whoever said this before on Balance thread, Credits to you) Smash (Yes, very creative...) Energy required: 10 at level 1, increase by 2 each level Stat Required: 14 Support at level 1, +2 per level Improves with: None Weapon Required: Maul/Club Progression... Level 1: -2 Defence Points Level 2: -3 Defence Points Level 3: -4 Defence Points Level 4: -5 Defence Points Level 5: -6 Defence Points Level 6: -7 Defence Points Level 7: -8 Defence Points Level 8: -9 Defence Points Level 9: -10 Defence Points Level 10: -11 Defence Points This skill takes off only Defence and that's it. May be debuffed by (Rusted) Assault Bot This could work for CHs too but instead it would be resistance, not Defence @Above yes, but if Energy is twice the value of HP, why would you need to Heal? It's because once you run out of HP, YOU DIE! You run out of EP, you still live.

Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 22:06:23)
@^: You mean EP is 1/2 value of HP? I'd take 24 HP over 12 EP right now. Why? 12 EP doesn't do ANYTHING. 24 HP = 1 attack "negated".

JohnMenzies -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 23:06:28)
@hypedxlord If Atom Smash were to be unblock-able, then it would be too Over-powered.

Midnightsoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/30/2012 0:51:41)
debuffs should not be debuff+strike it should just decrease the opponent's stat only this will help prevent str builders from gathering rage points too fast CH's need some kind of move that will increase a stat I suggest a support increasing move that improves with dex TLM's need technician again blood shield moves to the blood mages but make sure the move becomes lvl scaled now/otherwise, leave energy shield if fireball is nerfed fireball should increase by 2 dmg at lvls 4-7 and 1 dmg at lvls 8-10 meaning there's a diminishing effect tech is too OP'ed. it improves resistance faster than dex increases defense, weakens bots, and increases deflection rate. i say tech improves resistance the EXACT same scaling as dex massacre lvl 1 and berzerker lvl 1 shouldnt do the same dmg

PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/30/2012 0:57:11)
I definitely support a change to Frenzy, it is so lame that players only use it as a backup hit, like on rage. should be good enough to create a build around it IMO. the problem with the skill is either it is deemed too powerful for TLM, so they nerf it into oblivion, then no one complains about it, so it is deemed balance. terrible way to "balance" skills.

khalidon5000 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/30/2012 2:26:05)
liy010 Your idea for the skill taking away DEFENSE is bad because at max it takes away 11 and 11x4 = 44 dexterity points, while smoke takes away like 35 on most builds I've seen. If you remember the beginning of delta when tactical mercenaries were oped because they had smokescreen which gave them too much synergy.

Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/30/2012 2:43:23)
@^: Trans posted on Page 1 (first post) about his idea of Conduction, which is basically the energy form of what Liy "suggested" (probably had conduction in mind?) Smokescreen lowers DEX = lowers block chance/connect chance. Taking away purely defense leaves the DEX intact, which means that block chance/connect chance is not affected, and some skills that rely on DEX are not affected. To "make up" for this, you add some more defense/resistance points taken away to balance it out.

PivotalDisorder -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/30/2012 2:48:03)
@Joe: I take it the new skill wouldn't stack with Smoke Screen or Malfunction?

Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/30/2012 2:53:22)
@^: IDK, it's Trans' idea, ask him when he gets unbanned. He said (oh geez, this better not get deleted since I'm "posting" on behalf of a banned player) that he scrapped the idea after he heard about the Passives revamp will be soon incoming. I'd have no clue about it, since it is his idea. Talk to him in-game about it or something. (Seriously if my post here gets deleted because I'm "posting on behalf of a banned player", I have no words. This is legitimate, my previous one with the links to twitlonger might have been...incorrect, but this one...just no.)

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