RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (Full Version)

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Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 14:41:21)

How To Fix CH:

Note: This is how I will call things:

1-1, 1-2, 1-3
2-1, 2-2, 2-3
3-1, 3-2, 3-3
4-1, 4-2, 4-3

A) Because people suddenly are complaining about EMP, move EMP to 3-1
B) Move Multi to 3-3
C) Move Venom to 4-1 AND BUFF IT!!! It is WAY behind Toxic Grenade right now
D) Move Plasma Grenade to 2-3, BUFF THIS AS WELL PLEASE
E) Move Defense Matrix to 1-3

That's all the moving for now. For changing of skills, I am suggesting:

Remove PA, replace with Technician. Still not sure why people oppose...it's better than PA if you have high Technician...
Change Multi-Shot into a new, improves-with-tech Multi
Re-buff SC back to where it was. The nerf was overkill, any good CH must use 2 Statics to be able to get a heal again.
As said before already, buff Venom Strike to be on par with Toxic Grenade
Buff Plasma Grenade in terms of damage. Heck, buff Stun Grenade as well, and Overload.





Renegade Reaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 15:49:08)

what would mercs, tactical mercs, and cyber hunters do if ALL passive armors were taken away?



khalidon5000 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 15:55:10)

Who's proposing they should be taken away?
Only reduced in power, like reroute & bloodlust should as well.
http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=20291057&mpage=14&key=
Trans suggested a percentage based passive armor, I think it's worth taking a look at.



Renegade Reaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 16:11:53)

the only class that can't boost its own defense is the merc class, and IMO they should be the only ones with a passive armor.

@khalidon5000 I'm the one proposing that armors should be taken away from tac merc and cyber hunter. they rely too much on their
PA and if it were taken away, they would actually have to THINK about how to make a build.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 16:29:11)

You have to admit, Reroute and Bloodlust are more conditional (selective) than Hybrid + Mineral + Plasma Armor, making Bloodlust and Reroute more... "technical".

(basically, strategic, tactual)



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 16:33:17)

@void You can easily get around both Mineral or Plasma Armor by simply using the opposite damage type. It's highly unlikely you'll get around Reroute, Bloodlust or Hybrid armor unless you block or get blocked for every move. If you get around Reroute then you probably lost due to the fact that it happens when you hit them(and if you don't hit, you don't do damage, and that means you can't kill them).



liy010 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 16:41:42)

Make EMP increase with Support and change skill tree into

Heal-Cheap-PA
DM-Static-Grenade
Multi-Malf-Venom
EMP-Mass-SA



khalidon5000 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 16:48:03)

Switch Venom and EMP and that skill tree would be perfect.



Midnightsoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 19:17:53)

the stamina rule

if any move is repeated in a row, it will diminish in damage (take away 15% damage each use)


massacre needs to be stronger at lower lvls, but weaker at higher lvls



azrael borg's special needs to be nerfed to 50% and blockable



ur going to fail -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 19:45:48)

I thnk they can fix CH by replacing cheap shot with a almost the E bludgeon, that also has chance to stun like maul (improve with support) and giving back technican.



Combatoid -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 20:01:57)

I personally feel like Tactical Mercenaries aren't getting a lot of attention right now. Think about it, they pretty much forced all TLM's into being tanks, they nerfed Frenzy, Removed Maul, AND Removed Smokescreen, while replacing them with almost useless skills such as FC and Stun Grenade. You don't see much successful TLM's on the 1vs1 leaderboards. I think that the only thing making TLM op was that it had smokescreen, maul, and a way to get it's energy back. I think what ED NEEDS TO DO is right away give TLM back maul and and a stronger frenzy, since for 12 energy or so a varium player will only get back 3-5ish hp! There isn't anyway that a TLM can beat a str,massacre,debuffing,energy regen, CyberHunter. I would like to see how much TLM's are still in ED today compared to BM,TM,BH,Merc,and CH. I REPEAT TLM is too underpowered!!! TLM NEEDS A BUFF RIGHT AWAY!!!
DO NOT SKIM OVER THISS!!!!!!

Also for more fantastic and reasonable ideas for TLM buffs look at my previous posts in this Balance Discussion.

Post edited. Please don't use font size bigger than 3. ~Mecha
Fine o fine. However it says nowhere on the forums rules that you must have 3- font size.
Actually, as you were already told once here, over sized fonts are not allowed according to the Universal Forum Rules. Anything over the size of 3 is consider over sized. ~Mecha
Magical Banana.



ur going to fail -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 20:04:40)

^Im TLM, my support beat beats most. My str poison tank build beats most. and my high hp tank jug is good. Only thing I can see leveling CH with TLM is to make atom smash unblockable, and just MAYBE frenzy (maybe unblockable frenzy OP).



ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 20:10:35)

My secondary character is a tlm and I think they are well balanced. They just seem underpowered compared to the strength tank emp loop ch's and the strength abuse bounty hunters. If you fix those 2 classes, we shall rise again! muahahahaha [8D]



Combatoid -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 20:14:03)

^I agree that TLM is good against nonvars IF you pay with varium. I however, think that TLM is as underpowered as CH before it was buffed majorly. There were still builds to succeed but it was incredibly hard to do so. TLM has some of the most useless skills in game. There is no use for Stun Grenade in a battle whatsoever accept if you are going for the lucky stun in a match before rage. I think that to restore some of the balance to ED you must make TLM as strong as BM or CH. I think to do this you must add Maul again or make it so that there is a new ability called Haze which lowers the enemy's hit chance and makes it easier for you to hit them.

Proof that Stun Grenade is almost useless:

As a TLM you have no buffs to make you have more dex, and with all your required stats for other skills it's hard to get above 50 damage.

Right now I personally think that a varium TLM is worse out of a Varium TM, Varium Bounty Hunter, Varium Mercenary, Varium Blood Mage, and a Varium Cyber Hunter.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 21:47:40)

I would like to remind people who do not follow this property of balance discussion... that any claim that you make must be supported by proofing or statistics.

If you think that your claim is serious and does not require supporting details, expect heavy criticism.



liy010 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 22:51:33)

@Combatoid
quote:

-Both have Passive Armor
-Both have Energy Regain Skill
-Both have Energy Drain skill
-CH has debuff (Malf) and TLM has buff (FC)
-Both have Shields (CH has DM and TLM has BS)
-TLM has more powerful Poison


In theory this would make TLM on par with an "OP" Class so there's a slight possibility TLM is balanced but UP, no way.

quote:

Proof that Stun Grenade is almost useless:

As a TLM you have no buffs to make you have more dex, and with all your required stats for other skills it's hard to get above 50 damage.


Ok lets get this started...

Proof that Plasma Grenade, Multi-Shot and every other CH skill is almost useless:

As a CH you have no buffs to make you have more any stat.

Proof that FireBall is almost useless:

As a BM you have no buffs to make you have more STR.

Proof that SmokeScreen is almost useless:

As a BH you have no buffs to make you have more tech.

Proof that Bunker Buster is almost useless:

As a Merc you have no buffs to make you have more tech.

Proof that Overload and Plasma Rain is almost useless:

As a TM you have no buffs to make you have more dex.

Ok, we done?

Just because a Class doesn't have a skill that can boost a certain stat, doesn't mean all skills that improve with that stat are almost useless.

Now for Haze.

Haze would just end up nerfing TLM even more. What skill would you like Haze to replace? Whatever it is, I can guarantee it's more powerful than Haze. You see, haze relies heavily on luck and is just another SA but this time, it costs EP and a turn. If Haze ends up having no effect at all, you just wasted EP and a turn.



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 22:54:16)

@Combatoid: TLMs are alive and thriving very much thank you. I've seen some very nice toxic grenade STR builds. They work.




drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 22:59:20)

What if Passive Armors took a turn to activate?

It would last 3 turns before going back into slumber and requiring another activation.



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 23:01:38)

@^: If that's the case, I'd like to replace my PA with Technician. Lasts for 3 turns, boosts my TECH, and gives me MORE RESISTANCE!



drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 23:20:24)

^
Requires energy, depends on a stat, also takes a turn to activate...



Rayman -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/28/2012 23:47:32)

BH is Balanced thats all it also need a little buff and its fine. And probably some fix to str bhS



Arevero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 2:09:18)

I've read through everyone's posts on this page, all leading to the fact CH is OP DUE to PLASMA ARMOR. Logic much anyone?

TAKE OUT PA, I'd rather just a 60%static and malf to win a battle than a UBER-TANKING-OP PASSIVE ARMOR.

To be honest if ANY one takes out PA in a balance change, I think that is the BEST balance we have had in YEARS, or even for the FIRST TIME!!!

Give me Technician for PA, i am sincerely asking for a good change, if Mercs received a pretty balanced skill, TMs received change, then CH needs a change too. ALOT of players think we are OP, then i say take out the 'master of evil' behind this, PLASMA ARMOR IS KILLING US.

Joe is correct, we don't tank because we like to win EVERY SINGLE MATCH, we tank because we MUST.

Technician is SOOO much better, i regret not changing to a CH earlier for technician, i was BH non-var up to lv 31, then been a CH ever since.

Also, if it's a choice of taking Malf or PA, i say PA, no comparison needed if you look at the long run.



Nub Apocalypse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 2:51:42)

quote:

^Im TLM, my support beat beats most. My str poison tank build beats most. and my high hp tank jug is good. Only thing I can see leveling CH with TLM is to make atom smash unblockable, and just MAYBE frenzy (maybe unblockable frenzy OP).


I completely agree to this idea. It's so frustrating when atom can determine the game and it gets blocked.



Wootz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 5:24:42)

Okay, so...after reading this page for the secound time already. I feel like I should write something. (Yay for you.)

First things first.
Cyber Hunters, Arevero suggested to take out Plasma Armor which was suggested like 50 times already and will be turned down as always. The reason for it that so many players would mind losing the passive armor which I think sucks a lot. And there is nothing you can do about it. Look in the previous discussion and you will find a quote of a PM sent by Lycus describing why the Plasma Armor should stay on the skill tree.
Oh and I don't think that Cyber Hunters are Over-Powered. Sucks to be you.

quote:

What if Passive Armors took a turn to activate?

It would last 3 turns before going back into slumber and requiring another activation.

Just stupid. So basicly you'd have a Defense Matrix or a Energy Shield which is just a bit weaker and now you want it to require a turn to activate and it costs nothing. And that was suggested a million times already and got turned down. The end.

quote:

I personally feel like Tactical Mercenaries aren't getting a lot of attention right now. Think about it, they pretty much forced all TLM's into being tanks, they nerfed Frenzy, Removed Maul, AND Removed Smokescreen, while replacing them with almost useless skills such as FC and Stun Grenade. You don't see much successful TLM's on the 1vs1 leaderboards. I think that the only thing making TLM op was that it had smokescreen, maul, and a way to get it's energy back. I think what ED NEEDS TO DO is right away give TLM back maul and and a stronger frenzy, since for 12 energy or so a varium player will only get back 3-5ish hp! There isn't anyway that a TLM can beat a str,massacre,debuffing,energy regen, CyberHunter. I would like to see how much TLM's are still in ED today compared to BM,TM,BH,Merc,and CH. I REPEAT TLM is too underpowered!!! TLM NEEDS A BUFF RIGHT AWAY!!!
DO NOT SKIM OVER THISS!!!!!!


Firstly, write normally boy.
Tactical Mercenaries aren't Under-Powered. The class isn't forced to be a tank, if so, Cyber Hunters should all be tanks. Removing Maul and Smokescreen made the class balanced, it was Over-Powered then. Frenzy is just fine, if you ask me, it should have the same progression as Static Charge. They get enough Health per two turns to keep them alive and its quite good with a moderate ammount of Strenght. Field Commander isn't useless it is really good, Stun Grenade, its weak but a stun is a stun. You know why you don't see a Tactical Mercenaries on the LeaderBoards it is because they are slow. If they are able to get fast kills they would be on them. There is a way to beat a "str,massacre,debuffing,energy regen, CyberHunter" and every other class. Don't act a fool and learn how to actually use the class and then write something about it. And no, they don't need a buff.



JohnMenzies -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/29/2012 15:17:56)

Assimilation Changes:
1. Make Assimilation steal 16 energy at max.
-or-
2. Make Assimilation's energy steal unblock-able, but the damage block-able.
-and-
3. Make Assimilation the 4th tier skill for Blood Mage replacing Reflex Boost, and replace Intimidate with Reflex boost(3rd Tier Skill).



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