RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (Full Version)

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Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 10:14:06)

quote:

Here is a possible way to fix the enhancement problem.

Simply increase the amount of stat points you need to get a higher defense resistance. Currently, I believe it's 4 stat points at around 20-24 defense. So why not make it 6 or 7 stat points? That way, it'll be harder for players to obtain a more tanky build with super high dex. Same goes for strength and tech and support. I cannot forsee any negative outcomes from this, but then again, it's late at night.

What about making enhancements free? If everyone had them it wouldn't be as big as a problem.



Zeoth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 10:42:15)

Arevero don't recommend a defense reliable passive. We ALL know what the quick fix solution to that is and we don't want that.
BM is so offensive oriented that I don't really see any kind of replacement we could give it to make it a little but more defensive.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 10:51:37)

quote:

Therefore, BL is a skill that connects all those skills together into one devastating UBER-PWNAGE...etc, etc...


how about BH's massacre then... then they need another skill aswell due to Smoke + Massacre + BL = lots of healing



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 11:24:37)

@Zeoth,

Some ideas for BM/BH:

A passive that restores an amount of health every turn, attacks that improve by Technology or Support or Dexterity, skills that DoT, skills that switch damage with healing, skills that shield an amount of health, skills that cause blocks or deflections or critical strikes or stuns to occur.



BlueKatz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 12:26:19)

quote:

how about BH's massacre then... then they need another skill aswell due to Smoke + Massacre + BL = lots of healing

BL on BH is not the same as BL on BM. It takes BH 4 turns to active Mass and 5-6 turn to actually kill the enemy. It takes BM 2-4 turns to kill and enemy.

On second look my suggestion is quite OP because of Rage difference (which I forgot when comparing to Armors) lol but it's not as abusive as BL so I don't really care (BM use a lot of skill points and DA is like half passive)
It's even better than BL



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 12:32:24)

Or simple solution, take out Deadly Aim from BMs which gives it too much synergy, thus making people think BL is OP. Gun + Fireball unblockable, both improve with Strength, what more do you want? SA wouldn't be a good replacement either for it, luck-based skill given in exchange for a passive is poor, but maybe Aux-version of DA? We don't see many if any Support BMs so that's a good start, it destroys the synergy and could go well with so awaited Support buff which was promised few months back.. -.-



Shadow Rouger -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 12:39:15)

Agreed with trans,

That is the best one I've seen in ages, that could balance it completely, nerfing str aswell, as they will use intimidate, but the problem is support abuse, it would have to have HIGH VERY HIGH str requirement.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 12:52:38)

May I note, khalidion thought of Aux-DA first so credits go to him. I only suggested it for BMs instead, suggestion is his! :)
Requirement would be the same as it is. What do BMs have that allows you to abuse Support? Intimidate, Reflex + Energy Shield, and.. that's it. This would allow the build to deal good damage, get HP back from BL but also be able to Tank and have a Str-debuff, but their damage can't get higher because they have no defence debuffer, and Aux has a cooldown as well.

And please, tell me where can you see Support abuse in-game with current Support? Exactly. :P



khalidon5000 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 12:55:38)

Thanks for the credit, here are the details...
Blood Mages aren't very versatile. I had originally suggested this for mercenaries but Trans thought it would be better for BMs and that I should suggest this for Blood Mages.
If you know how BMs have deadly aim which supports Strength builds, well this would slightly nerf str builds and buff support builds.
Well, I present to you the auxiliary equivalent...

Deadly Shock! (Name can be adjusted I don't mind)

Auxiliary damage increase:

Level 1: 10%
Level 2: 13%
Level 3: 16%
Level 4: 19%
Level 5: 21%
Level 6: 23%
Level 7: 25%
Level 8: 26%
Level 9: 27%
Level 10: 28%
Weapon Required: Auxiliary
Stat Required: 24 Support +2 to requirement per skill point
Improves with: None

This skill is really promising and it can replace deadly aim.
It would help make BMs more versatile.
@NDMALLET Guy: How about making it stronger then DA?



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 12:56:33)

You guys do realize BM is supposed to be a more offensive, strength based version of TMs right? I doubt DA will be getting removed in the near future because of that simple fact alone unless the team exhausts every other possible solution.

@trans The balance team tried an Aux DA and it didn't work. The %s were similar to the same boost of regular DA(+10 damage at max level and high damage guns) yet the 3 turn cooldown was too much for the damage to compensate for.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 13:05:49)

Wait they tried Aux DA already?! ;o When was that? Or behind the scenes? It seemed a good idea, and I know it's supposed to be Str-themed Mage but it's hard to take out the synergy without killing the class completely. Yes, I'm talking about Str abuse. If Devs could get their stat diminishing out sooner, to deal with abuse, we'd rant less as the damage would go down and make a difference but it's been months, literally, since we heard from them about that or Support buff. >.>



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 13:35:09)

Deadly Aim for the Primary weapon.

It was too horrible, that I could not make a joke from it.



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 18:35:11)

We need to fix Massacre before adding a new passive.



steven11113 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 20:18:55)

massacre is need to be nerf but i think there so much massacre with lvl 4-6 with 86%-106% more damage and not a lots of lvl 7-10 so they should nerf by changing the % to 50% at lvl 1 and 138% at lvl 10 Make it increase by 8% for the first 5 levels and 12% for the next 4 level.

plasma grenade should be buff by increase the damage by 2 and 3 each level. Not at level 5-10 they go up by 1 more damage. They should be at least almost powerful as overload.
plasma grenade should be 14 energy at level 1 and + 3 damage per level till level 5 and + 2 damage till level 10. Their base chance should increase to 35% since there arent barely chance to stun if face high support build



Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 20:24:04)

^
Massacre is pretty much just a step above bezerker.
What Massacre has over bezerker: Unblockable, higher damage
What Bezerker has over massacre: Can be raged, costs less, less cool down

Massacre in my opinion is the most underpowered ultimate.



steven11113 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 20:28:17)

^it true since there arent any bonus like -50% rage , 30% life steal and etc..

Maybe they should give the ability to do it at rage



Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 20:37:58)

^
My idea is 25% health regain that does NOT stack with bloodlust.

Anyone think we should replace CH EMP with assimilation?

@below
Then both BH and CH will both be equal in terms of this skill.
They both gain 25%, they can both lower their opponents defenses, they both have the ability to do the same damage.



D.v.D. -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 20:43:47)

@zman bloodlust at max is 23 % health gain..



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 21:00:49)

Have Massacre be like 25% defense/resistance ignoring. Problem solved? Maybe even 50% ignoring?



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 21:25:41)

Massacre would be much more balanced if it leveled by integers rather than percentages. Compare how Massacre damage is calculated to Supercharge or Surgical Strike and you will get the idea. Also, I would remove the Primary weapon being a part of how Massacre is calculated. I suggest this just because a weapon and stat together can be easily exploited compared to just something like stats.



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 21:31:25)

New Suggestion (well really, an old one being brought back up).

How about making Plasma Grenade improve with Dex, and add 8-12 more damage at max?



Rayman -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 22:52:52)

Idc why do u think plasma nade have to inprove with dex while we already have a granade that inproves with dex called stun granade?
If u think it should inprove with dex i think it should replaced with stun nade. Just a buff to plasma nada its fine.



frogbones -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 23:01:08)

quote:

Suggestion (well really, an old one being brought back up).

How about making Plasma Grenade improve with Dex, and add 8-12 more damage at max?


Oh. My. Goodness.

Sorry, man. That suggestion belongs in the =ED= Further Ways to Make the Game Imbalanced and Overall More Suckier (FWMGIOMS) thread.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 23:07:10)

@duel No, It has a chance to stun which is why it deals lower damage. Plus, making it dex removes diversity from Stun Grenade and Plasma Grenade.



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII (5/8/2012 23:20:34)

...So that's why we make Multi-Shot into a new skill which improves with Tech, scrap Plasma Armor and replace it with Technician!...

*Runs and hides*



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