RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (Full Version)

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Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 11:14:33)

But Black OP's statement was right and it saved me time posting it. I suggested a lot in the past, newer members won't remember it but I had few pages of suggestions (A4) and many players just said that I had quite a few good ideas regarding balance yet they could've done so over PM to tell me that? I'm not looking to pick up a fight and I was discussing with Hun and his points, we're entitled to our own opinions so I gave mine by supporting Black OP's opinion since I would've said the same, and gave my views in the post below. Sorry, but I find supporting one's views better than repeating the same thing.
Also I used hero to put the emphasis on my views on his posts and since they are the same as mine, the word was perfect to explain what I think about his opinion and that I also share the same one. Sorry if I offended you in any way and if you wish to continue this, do so over PM since it's off-topic enough.. :/

Anyway, with the bot: the damage boost over time should be crippled simply so it progresses much slower than it does now and make the attack blockable too. Not cripple too much with the damage boost but a bit lower than now.



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 11:22:28)

@Trans make it match the vaults laser attack and have it be deflectable. To me that was the flaw of Gamma Bot it's "ranged" attack was blockable, it's point blank range but it was still firing a laser not trying to smash you with a fist



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 11:41:04)

How about we make the special usable only once per battle?



One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 11:57:25)

@Shades most people use the special as a battle ender so wouldn't that just reinforce that train of thought



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 11:59:57)

Shade of blue even if it was made useable once per duel people would still complain about it since that is all most people need to do is use it once and they get that massive damage. Honestly most people won't stop complaining about the power of the bot until it is to the point it was like before the bot came (Meaning the bot doesn't help to much and their builds can win again like before)



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 12:43:50)

Trans, there is mare factors into blocking then just dex.

Before Technician was taken away and strength tact mercs was using energy primaries I had Dex at 159: 32-39 with tech at 76: 26-32 and was not blocking, with dex that high should I have been blocking at least once by all calculations yes. I decided using Level Technician in each match then in each match I was blocking. Can you now see there is more to getting blocks then just Dex alone.

I just did 27 matches and only went critical on Plasma cannon 3 times not once against players with low tech or support.

The staff already has the huge list of balance issues dealing with the skills and no reason to mention them again and that is why I didn't, they need to work on those issues first instead of giving into Legion demands to Nerf the bot their leader created out of Exile warriors.

There is no such thing as random numbers in programming, the program goes by a set of variables, and does the program generate these variables, numbers, it is specified by the numbers by your strength, dex, tech, or support. So calling it RNG Random number generator is misleading and if you are a programmer or a techie your know that computers are stupid and can't generate numbers out of thin air.



King FrostLich -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 12:49:51)

quote:

I had Dex at 159: 32-39 with tech at 76: 26-32 and was not blocking, with dex that high should I have been blocking at least once by all calculations yes. I decided using Level Technician in each match then in each match I was blocking. Can you now see there is more to getting blocks then just Dex alone.


Pics/videos or misleading information all over again. [8|]



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 13:13:12)

Relying on the random number generator is the biggest mistake anyone could make!

Edit because I had spelled generator wrong (do not wish to de-educate anyone).



shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 13:31:56)

^So true.....



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 14:58:04)

Hun Kingq


Like I said Numerous times, Unless you have Actual Proof
Screenshot, Videos... From what I see you are just pulling numbers out from thin air



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 16:47:49)

Ok for all those who want a nerf to the bot you win. The admins have been looking into it, and in the infernal android thread thread one mentioned that the bot would be nerfed by the next update. How it is going to be nerfed I don't know but it will be happening.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 17:14:21)

It is a sad day something good was finally brought to ED and players start switching to focus builds, the ones that are not use to losing all the time and the ones that praise their builds was the best in the world are the ones that complained the most, now the poor bot will be nerfed to oblivion and will and will get put into storage as other bots have been, the Cyber hunters will go back to their high win ratio and abusive energy stealing techniques now that the bot will be weaken so much it will be useless. Improving other bots will not happen and the Gamma bot will be once again the most powerful bot in the game.

So congratulations you have successfully got rid of the best thing that came to ED. reduce it down a notch or two more like it will be 10 notches.
With the bot at rage I occasionally got 65 but usually it was between 45 and 55, the same as the gamma bot.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 17:23:24)

Hun kingq they never said how they were going to nerf it. Also I have always used the focus build since day however, even with my focus build I was still losing to the focus build users who became energy tanks because of this new bot.

For all we know they might just make it deflectable or worse to worse blockable and cut the damage in half. But even with this bot Cyber hunters and blood mages and the tank focus build users were dominating the fights. Let's wait and see what they do before you have a heartattack.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 17:38:12)

Mother1, don't bother. You will waste your time from my past experience as well as people who still remember the old threads.. :/ They will look at effects too, of the Bots, and if Azrael gets nerfed in terms of effect then so will Assault Bot. Nerfing Azrael will be like buffing Bio Borg at same time since Azrael debuffs it to mere 10%.
They will be buffed to same Power Level since they are universal and can be used as soon as Level 1 so their power will hopefully also be and same with effects. :)



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 17:41:12)

Mother1, the damage will be cut more than in half I raged the bot on a tank Cyber Hunter recently and only got 45 critical damage so where is the overpowered bot and I have a true 5 focus build. look what happened when they nerf the multis Plasma Rain was nerfed so much the damage is ridiculously low even after they increased it and look what happen to that skill no Blood Mage or tech Mage uses it anymore but we will see.

If the classes without malfunction gets damage even at rage so low only two classes you will see using it the tech mage and the Cyber Hunter.

Well maybe this is what should be done instead of reducing its power make it where the power is reduced above a certain amount of tech that way up to the certain amount of tech you have prime power but above that amount the power of the bot or any bot is reduced.

Maybe the top prime tech should be 85: 30-36 and going above that is 25% reduction for each tech increase. This would be a nerf but not a nerf to make Titans best creation useless.



zion -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 19:03:34)

I just juggernauted (completely - the other guy never showed up) against two lvl 35 Mechachilids... and won... this bot is OP.
--Noiz



ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 19:56:36)

I've had a 5 focus techmage for a long time. I can say that the bot is a little overpowered and needs a slight nerf, but cutting it in half would be too drastic. I rage hit on the 5th round and do like 65 damage. Should be around 45-50 in my opinion. if it was cut down to where I was only doing like 32 then I could do better than that with my pyrofly.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 20:02:06)

gk365, now do a juggernaut against two level 35 cyber Hunters with the bot and tell us if you win after they drain all your energy.

With a mechachilid having Level 4 malfunction put on him I got 75 critical damage with the Plasma Cannon so since I got that much damage and it is quite clear it is too much then the Plasma cannon should e nerfed to satisfy everyone. Anything that can get 50+ damage should be nerfed that is including massacre and EMP. It is not the equipment that makes things OP it is the players and their builds.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 20:43:41)

Hun Kingq I know you want the bot to say as it is, but sadly that battle is lost. The masses complained the admins heard and now they are going to nerf the bot weather you like it or not. Also if you want to nerf the EMp here is an Idea put it further down the tier bar.

I mean serious Cyber is the only class (other then blood mage since they don't have one) That has instant access to their energy stealing move. Tech mage, Merc and Tech merc's moves to take energy are at the way bottom and you have to spend 3 skill points to get them. Even bounty hunter's have to spend at least one skill point to get the emp while with Cyber hunters they don't have to spend anything to get it only to level it up is that fair in any sense? I don't think so.

Also as much as I hate to say this it isn't fair that for certain skills a class is lacking in that area such as Blood mages being the only class without energy draining moves and Tech merc being the only class without a debuff. I mean seriously how is it balanced if all the classes don't have certain things? All classes should have buffs, debuffs, and energy draining moves yet while all the classes have their buffs TlM is without a debuff (thanks to the a nerf a few months ago which gave them a second buff in exchange for it's only debuff) and Blood mages are without an energy drain move.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 22:26:17)

Mother1, That is the problem they always give into the mob rules that is why the Blood Mage classes was nerfed more than any other classes and they are calling more nerfs to that class. Well I found that Level 3 E shield limits the energy attack of the bot greatly. The ones that ruined it did not follow the 5 focus build rule but abused tech as they do with other stats just to overpower others, you can really considerate bullying, instead of cutting the damage in half or more like I suggested:

"Maybe the top prime tech should be 85: 30-36 and going above that is 25% reduction for each tech increase. This would be a nerf but not a nerf to make Titans best creation useless." or even 50% per tech going above that prime.

Thing about move the EMP down it will still drain the same amount of energy and with static charge they will still drain your energy multiple times. two options make all energy draining skills drain the same amount or limit EMP and Atom Smasher one time use skills if not blocked since they take away more energy than Assimilation. During Delta I have spent more credits on energy boosters than on gear and that has to say something like maybe the energy drain is too great, maybe classes to need energy regain, or maybe it is time for energy booster cater to the classes like classes without energy regain get to get boosters that gives more energy.

The Blood had either too many skills taken away or just replaced with skills from non mage classes instead of staff coming up with new skills and they think that all they did was balance the Blood Mage class but if listening to the mob more and not thinking through what they are about to do and think that will bring balance then there will never be balance.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 22:49:37)

Hun Kingq I have seen people still follow the level 5 focus build and still abuse the tech to do this. Hell if I was using my merc build with the bot I would be slaying every opponent I face (Since with the the focus and the equipment I have without enhancement my tech would still be 85 if you add the enhancement I would have 110 altogether and this would only be a level 4 focus build)

It may sound like my merc build is a bully build, (since the resistance in itself is even higher the most CH) but at the same time I also made my build with focus so even though the tech is high I could still use my other skills just in case someone decided to emp bomb me. But in all honestly I only made this build to compete with other classes who would clobber me otherwise while still keeping some sort of focus balance.

Now the reason I mention to put the Emp further down the line is because every other class other then cyber hunter (and blood mage since they don't have one) has to pay skill points to get to the energy steal moves. In all the other classes other then bounty hunter you have to pay 3 skill points just to get a level one atom smasher or assimilation while cyber hunter gets it from the start tell me how is that fair at all? especially with the static ability to gain energy back and the low cost for level one emp? It is an energy draining night mare that can't be block which is another thing.

Not only do the other classes have to play three skill points (With the exception of bounty hunters and blood mages since they don't have it) to get an energy drain move that can be blocked while cyber hunter don't have to pay anything for a 100% chance for energy drain this isn't fair at all what so ever. By moving it down at it would be more far since if the perople actually want it they will have to play a skill point for it, or move the other moves for the other classes up so they don't have to pay as much skill points for it.

Now as for the blood mages remember blood mages are suppose to be a more brutal version of the tech mage so of course they would have blood lust over reroute. Also what are the moves that blood mages have that aren't mage moves? Every single one of them has something to do with the mage.




rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/13/2012 23:45:23)

Guys. WHy is this bot more powerful than bots that are Varium and Credits?


Gamma bot cost 50$!


This bot is Free! With the essential of just a few hours labored, this bot should NOT pose more of a threat than Gamma. Yet, what bot do we see doing 60+ damage on rage? Not gamma.


And I'm a Cyber HUnter with 26-32+5+1+10 RESISTANCE.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 0:07:47)

Mother1, That is why I suggest don't nerf the bot but deal with how it improves with the stat. There are weapons out there that has no requirements with 10 enhancement slots each that I see Level 35s carry creating balance issues but that has not been dealt with. In a recent 2vs2 match a Cyber hunter wrote LOL when I used two boosters and with his low tech but high resistance due to the Plasma Armor I only got 37 damage so he thought he won the match then pulled out the bot and the laughter of me having use two energy boosters went away, the bot was the only option I had left because the strikes was getting blocked or very low damage.

Yes, the Blood Mage is suppose to be a more aggressive form of the tech Mage but truly what skill shows that aggression when I use bludgeon it looks like my character is hobbling over trip over his feet then just poking not clobbering or slashing. The blood mage is a very heavy energy based class and players say Health is more important than energy if that is the case the the percentage of health return should be larger because only way to get any substantial health return is at max with damage above 60, especially if you don't block or deflect. Only thing that sets the blood mage apart from the tech mage is fireball and Plasma Cannon. When they created these new classes they should have had more of their own skills and maybe there would be less balance issues.

Too many times the issues with skills or skill trees have been put on the back burner and the new bot less than a week old instead of players thinking of ways to beat it they hammer away at it until the staff gives in then the balance issues with the skills and skill trees gets put on the back burner again. After the next update something else arises or the or the bot is too week then again skills and skill trees are put on the back burner. Then the next war, so then next thing we know the new phase comes in new classes are created. Then we have balance issues with the three classes now.

The war came to the end the bot should have been the last of their concern but the balance issues dealing with stats, weapons, and skill tree should have became top priority not the fact that players got more losses that is part of the game and if they can't handle the losses with the bot then what are they going to do when the staff fixes the issues with weapons, stats , skills and skill tree?




Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 0:57:41)

rayniedays56 The only reason the bot is more powerful then the rest is because of it's special ability of gaining power like the delta vault does. If it had any other ability no one would be harping about it because it wouldn't pose a threat in all honestly. Also with the gamma bot costing 50 bucks? that was only if you brought the promo pack it came with. in all honestly all you would need is 20 bucks to get the varium needed to buy the bot itself since the varium needed for the bot was 1900.

Also I have to ask what is wrong with a free bot being more powerful then a varium bot? I mean sure there are only two free bots, but still why is that an issue? In fact this is the first time something that is non varium comes out that is more powerful then a varium item and now everyone is complaining to the point were "All the bots are going to get tinkered with" I know a lot of user are going to be extremely upset this the other bots get nerfed or messed with badly because people were getting upset with a 'free bot' as you called it being stronger then a varium bot.

Hung Kingq what happened with you is just the point that most users don't like sadly. that and they don't like the fact they would have to change the builds they used for so long to compete because they are getting creamed by what the admins wanted for so long. Sadly that is how I see it. Personally I like the bot as it is nerf free. Heck i don't use a mass of tech with any of my build other then my merc build since most of builds for that class don't work all that well for me. But as Raniedays56 and many others said they don't like the fact that they are losing to people that are using this bot when they many of them have such hi resist that is shouldn't be happening to them.

As for the blood mage thing remember they used to have the beserker in the past that was very aggessive, however due to so many changes in the class people started using that dreaded strength build and kept getting 2 run wins to the point where no matter what build you used you would get clobber unless you were lucky enough to block the beserker since the fireball is unblockable. as a result it was replaced with the weaker move you were talking about.

But in all honestly as I said before there can never be true balance in the game with all the different build there are in this game and different skills. Even in the beginning before I played this game people of the old days would tell me the merc would always own bounty hunters and all that jazz

But in all honestly sadly if I look at it from your point of view the masses would rather have their builds win then be forced to use a build they don't want to use to compete because a new wild card has appeared. From my point of view overpowered? I can't see it. I only see it from as you called it the tech spammer who abused tech points and enhancements to power up the bots attack along with it's special ability. If left up to me I would leave it as is, but since the Admins go with what the masses say unless the masses felt the same way as you (Which they don't) the admins aren't going to listen.



vexas -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/14/2012 1:20:14)

wat about wen u going against a boss tht y we need thise things so stop tlking nerfing the bot



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