RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (Full Version)

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Blaze The Aion Ender -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/7/2012 16:54:51)

I was thinking "why did my merc win so much on my other accounts before the tac merc patch?"
It hit me, Hybrid armor not being defense switching
What about changing merc's hybrid armor to +12 physical, then you can click it to +12 resistance?

What about giving merc a emp grenade, since they have no energy regain

And this is for all classes, just fix support builds, or atleast, for merc and TLM merc, make their artillery strike damage increase more quickly, because they do minimal damage

Anything opinions?




Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/7/2012 16:58:03)

Mercs have Atom, it's good enough. Keep base classes original, we don't want Grenade since we prefer strategy. :) And I'm fine with current HA, goes better with split Armors and works well with normal too + makes sense (it's Hybrid y'know)? And it'd be +11 not +12 now, sorry but I prefer +6 on both or even +7 on one already at Lvl 35.




od -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/7/2012 16:59:11)

^^Thats how HA used to be. It was balanced for the most part unless you had all energy weps, in which case they'd simply flip it and you were in huge trouble. In terms of edrainers, Merc already has atom smasher, so I don't see the need for empty

If you want to increase art. strikes damage try using it with rage. However, I wouldn't recommend using it unless you have VERY high support




Blaze The Aion Ender -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/7/2012 17:00:47)

@od, thats what i meant
It's almost useless, because support is useless
Make it increase in damage a bit faster than the other multi's
Like, if plasma rain takes 4 dex to move up it's damage by one, artillery would take 3, since it's increased by dex which is far more useful than support




od -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/7/2012 17:05:52)

^ I'd have 2 agree with you on that point. However, I think that artillery would be better if instead of improving it's scaling, returning the % defense ignored wouldn't be too imbalanced, seeing as support builds have been beefed quite a bit




Blaze The Aion Ender -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/7/2012 17:17:14)

Yeah, really something to make it stronger, each class except merc and TLM has some way of improving their multi, BH has reflex boost, TM has malf, CH has malf, BM has reflex boost





Nexus... -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/7/2012 18:41:15)



quote:

1 question: how would this supposed structure work in terms of class changes? From what I read and the image I viewed, do we use class change to upgrade our skill tree to house more skills (from the evolutionary class)? Also (2 questions apparently), does class changing to a previously purchased class cost or will it not cost?


This is more of something for the developers to work out, but I have a couple ideas.
1) As I mentioned in the "Food for Thought" section, certain skills will be off limits until purchased with Credits OR Varium. There will still be a class change option available between Hunters, Mercenaries, and Mages, but you will also be able to "evolve" your respective skill tree by purchasing skills (such as Plasma Cannon, the new Physical Stun, and reflex boost). Once a skill is purchases, it remains permanent, so if you change to Hunter, and then decide to go back to Mage, your purchased skills will still be their.


quote:

it's a cool idea. However I think you should make it so you could use either energy or physical, but not both. So you could use energy support, or physical support.


I thought about this for a while, and you brought something to my mind. Its unreasonable for a Mage to be able to stun twice in a row, or multi twice in a row. Plasma/Fireball I am less worried about because they both require a lot in two very different stats. However, my opinion could change on that very quickly. So, taking your concern into mind, I am changing it so that a player can only have 1 Stun and 1 Multi at a time. This will also apply to Ultimates, a player can only have 1 ultimate at a time as well. I think it would be going a little bit far to stop a player from having both Assimilate and Malfunction on their skill tree, or Bludgeon and Plasma Bolt. However, with this change I am also removing my idea to lower the MAX skill level to 7, as the change no longer applies.


Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.




ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/7/2012 19:18:38)

There are already some problems I see forming with customizable skill trees. Let's use BM as an example really quick.

BM ideal Str build(IMO):
Fireball
Bloodlust
Bludgeon
Assimilate
Deadly Aim
Malf

Already the problem is that BM is getting a defense debuff. Another problem I want to point out that Assimilation is powerful with a strength build, especially if I have an energy primary and Malf.




King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/7/2012 19:30:22)

^You mean Smokescreen, not Malf, right?

Fireball and Bludgeon are Physical.




ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/7/2012 19:33:54)

@king I used Bludgeon on regular mages just fine with Malf, this would be no different.




helloguy -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/7/2012 20:21:36)

Why you change Hybrid armor from +7 defenses and +6 Resistance to +6 Defenses and +5 Resistance




ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/7/2012 20:24:35)

@helloguy Because the level scaling on several skills at high levels has been bugged for a long time, Hybrid being one of them.




helloguy -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/7/2012 20:28:32)

Well thats a nerf in the wrong direction in an all ready dead class with mercenary being the only class with that passive




Nexus... -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/7/2012 20:33:29)

quote:

There are already some problems I see forming with customizable skill trees. Let's use BM as an example really quick.

BM ideal Str build(IMO):
Fireball
Bloodlust
Bludgeon
Assimilate
Deadly Aim
Malf



This is why assimilate and malfunction are both opposing tier 3's. When you think about it, a Mage build with:

Malfunction, Plasma Bolt, Plasma Cannon, BloodLust (or reroute), Deadly Aim, and Bludgeon is a far more accesible skill tree. A Blood Mage oriented build would have to waste 5 Skill points in order to gain both malfunction and Assimilate, while a Tech Mage oriented build would lose nothing (as bludgeon is a tier 1). This is a huge disadvantage for a Blood Mage who wants to abuse Fireball and Bludgeon, as he has to deposit points in skills he does not need in order to get malfunction, as well as spread his skill points out between Assimilate, Deadly Aim, and Malfunction. By the time he got the build you specified, his bludgeon and fireball would probably be around level 5, which is hardly something to be scared about.


Prophet




Merc Lord -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/8/2012 14:23:39)

Mercenaries right now are the worst class to use. They are underpowered by everyone. before the 3 new classes came out, the game used to be even. since the new classes came out mercs and tactical mercs got nerfed the most and arent good to use. i personally love using mercs so i think that they need a really good buff.

Also i noticed that cyber hunters have 3 skills that dont require energy, shadow arts, plasma armor, and static charge. while the other classes only have 2 skills that dont cost any energy. the most common and overpowered class right now is cyber hunter. everyone is switching to cyber hunter now, everyone that i know who used to be mercs, tactical mercs. tech mages, bounty hunters all switched to cyber hunters.

so i believe that mercs need a buff and cybers need a nerf. or at least make the mercs artillery strike better again so we can atleast go back to 2v2




Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/8/2012 14:26:32)

^
No passives cost energy, anyways TLM and TM have 1 (or as you put it 3) skills that don't need energy.
TLM has bloodshield, reroute, and mineral armor.
TM has assimilate, deadly aim, and reroute.

@below
Frenzy needs some energy.




Nexus... -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/8/2012 16:18:21)

^ Don't forget Frenzy...

Also, Mercenary is one of the stronger classes right now. I would say its up their with Bounty Hunter in terms of being balanced. Just because every Cyber Hunter and Blood Mage beats the crap out of you doesn't mean you underpowered. Its happening to everyone. The issue isn't that 4 classes are underpowered, the issue is that 2 are dominating the scene.

@Trans
Your right, thanks for the correction.


Prophet




Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/8/2012 16:20:40)

Actually, Nexus, Frenzy does require Energy. xD And nope, Mercs do fall behind all the classes or did before Blood Commander, and it was proven by Balance Tracker too, so it wasn't just the issue of evolved Classes beating the crap outta everyone but it may be the case too, is in a way.




od -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/8/2012 17:48:26)

Mercs in general imo are up, however Ive found that facing one with delta armour can be very difficult, since it's like a 2nd HA.

In terms of class balance I personally think that CH is slightly stronger than other classes since they can tank extremely well, however they are much slower than BM's




AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/8/2012 18:29:25)

Truth is, unlike *someone* said, mercs and BHs dominated the battlefield before the new classes came. Buff artillery strike again? No thanks, buff support instead :3




Dreiko Shadrack -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/8/2012 18:44:44)

My take on blood mage is that fireball does need to change into a support improved skill, to counteract that both reflex boost and energy shield also improve with support I suggest that energy shield be replaced with blood shield.

I also thought of a rather involved idea that expands upon the theme of Blood Magic. Now it has been said that the evolved classes may or may not get new ultimate skills, the following assumes that this will come to pass.

New blood mage ultimate called "Blood Pact" that unlike other ultimates is actually a passive that does many things at once:
1- Removes all energy
2- Increases Health pool (percentage based, rounds)
3- All skills cost Hp
4- adds a damage and cost multiplier

It does all of these things at the start of the battle and progresses as such:

Level 1: 20% Increase in hp pool, 10% increase in damage done, skills cost 85%
Requires: focus level 1
Level 2: 25% increase in hp pool, 12% increase in damage done, skills cost 87%
Requires: focus level 2
Level 3: 30% increase in hp pool, 14% increase in damage done, skills cost 89%
Requires: focus level 2
Level 4: 35% increase in hp pool, 16% increase in damage done, skills cost 91%
Requires: focus level 2
Level 5: 40% increase in hp pool, 18% increase in damage done, skills cost 93%
Requires: focus level 3
Level 6: 45% increase in hp pool, 20% increase in damage done, skills cost 95%
Requires: focus level 3
Level 7: 50% increase in hp pool, 22% increase in damage done, skills cost 97%
Requires: focus level 3
Level 8: 55% increase in hp pool, 24% increase in damage done, skills cost 99%
Requires: focus level 4
Level 9: 60% increase in hp pool, 26% increase in damage done, skills cost 100% (so the same as they do now)
Requires: focus level 4
Level 10: 68% increase in hp pool, 30% increase in damage done, skills cost 105%
Requires: focus level 5

This passive doesn't improve with anything, naturally.
Let's throw some numbers as examples:

A 70 damage level 10 fireball with level 1 Blood Pact will cost 28 hp and do 77 damage
A 70 damage level 10 fireball with level 10 Blood Pact will cost 35 hp and do 91 damage

with level 1 blood pact and a 140 base hp pool you get a 168 hp pool
with level 10 blood pact and a 95 base hp pool you get a 160 hp pool

Here's also some quirks of blood pact, Reflex boost will no longer offer its energy regain because you don't have an energy pool during the fight, field medic is going to be much less useful because you'll be spending hp to regain hp (even if it DOES receive the "damage" multiplier), the increase in hp pool since it's only happening inside the fight will not affect agility. Bots, guns and strikes only receive a third the of the damage multiplier. edit: Deadly Aim and Blood Lust do not receive the power boost.

All numbers are most likely placeholders, they're just my initial figures. Thoughts?




helloguy -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/8/2012 18:47:26)

as long as doesn't work in conjuntion with blood lust and DA




Dreiko Shadrack -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/8/2012 18:49:53)

Of course it works with blood lust, but you're still spending hp to use skills...deadly aim doesn't receive the boost.
Err, neither receive the damage boost is what I mean, but they still function.




helloguy -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/8/2012 18:52:51)

So the end result the loss of the health to increase damage output will be balanced out by Blood lust

Oh yes thats so balanced and not OP




Dreiko Shadrack -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X (8/8/2012 18:54:52)

Bloodlust is less useful with Blood Pact since you're still going to be spending more hp than you're gaining.




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