=ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (Full Version)

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RabbleFroth -> =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 12:34:08)

Disclaimer: None of these are final and are subject to change before going live.

Hey all,

There's a number of changes to bots in the coming update -- wanted to announce these changes early so that I can give
some information about why we're making the changes and answer any questions you all might have about them.

The main goal with the changes is to make all of the bots equally viable for different strategies. We don't want any of the
bots to feel completely worthless or be a "must-have" on most builds because it's just too powerful.

Here are the planned changes, followed by the reasoning behind each change:
* Infernal Android
     - Old system: Starts at 70% regular damage, +15% damage per round, 160% cap (unblockable, 3 turn cooldown)
     - New system: Starts at 80% damage, +5% damage per round, 150% cap (deflectable, 4 turn cooldown)

* Assault and Rusted Assault Bots
     - Debuff reduction lowered from 80% to 65%

* Azrael's Borg
     - Buff reduction lowered from 80% to 65%
     - No longer affects Bioborg's thorn effect

* Bioborg
     - Thorns is no longer affected by Azrael Borg's special

* Pyro Fly
     - Increased damage on special attack

* Baby Yeti
     - Special is now unblockable

* Gamma Bot
     - No changes are planned


Infernal Android
Simply put, we made this bot much stronger than we meant to. After 3 rounds it would deal regular bot damage, and
at round 7 it would deal 160% damage. Coupled with a rage attack and the fact that it was unblockable often meant a
guaranteed kill. Even if it did not secure the kill, 3 turns later it could be used again for the same amount of damage.

The new system will take 5 rounds before it deals regular damage, and won't hit the damage cap until round 15. This
means that it will still be powerful on a durable build, but will take much longer to pull off and provides a more interesting
decision of "do I use it now or risk waiting so I can deal more damage?".


Assault Bot
This special was easily the most useful of all the bots (before the Infernal Android) and eclipsed everything else because
of it. It will still remain useful, but should no longer be far and away the best to use in almost all cases. Depending on your
build, the other bots should be fairly attractive options now.


Azrael's Borg
This follows the Assault Bot, reducing someone's buffs by 80% was just too strong of an ability and an absolute counter to
certain builds. It will remain strong (65% is still a pretty hefty reduction), but allows the buff to still have *some* effect.

It no longer affects Thorns because we don't want one bot to be a complete counter to another. This effectively prevented
the Bioborg bot from being useful in any real way.


Pyro Fly
Because of the random nature of this bot's special, we wanted to make it a little bit more useful than it is currently. We
thought about allowing it to be used more than once per battle, but were afraid that this could easily shut down someone's
ability to do anything (especially in a 2v2), which is not the intention. Giving it a little bit of extra damage on use should make
it worth using, even if it doesn't take away your opponent's best skill.


Baby Yeti
Because this special could be blocked, the tactical decision of when to use it was left to chance. Now, you can choose the best
time to disable someone's gun and aux and know that it will work every time.


Gamma Bot
We feel this bot is already pretty good at doing what it's designed to do, which is to simply deal damage.


Regards,
RabbleFroth




friend18 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 12:43:26)

I still feel that with the current changes, the Infernal Android would still be slightly overpowered. Hitting for 150% damage will end the game. I feel that reducing the max damage overall would help solve the problem (around 130% damage instead). That way, the Infernal Android isn't an instant kill, even when the match drags out. It should be a powerful bot, yes, but not super powerful that it is a game ender.

About the assault bots, I did enjoy the 80% reduction, but I guess it does solve the problem of CH tank builds etc. They're now more vulnerable to smoke etc. This also makes the bio borg a more viable option. Although the bio borg is already frustratingly powerful against CH players.




ReinXI -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 12:43:29)

IMO simply awseome ~ The new android will still pack a punch ( round 7 rage would be about 115% damage piercing through resistance ) yet still be liveable.. crits still could be devestating but when aren't those? ( aside from critical deflections xD )

Assault bot ~ don't have much to say basic change for the better

azraels~ never see it in action so can't actually say anything about this change but sounds good

Pyrofly ~ yeah I see where your going with that I always thought it was sad when someone used pyroflys special and disabled one of my most useless moves I never use and only did like.. 5 damage

Baby yeti ~ YES! I can finally enjoy nom nom noming peoples gear again! I always loved that ability so much :D

Gamma ~ oh well rare bot.. never had trouble with it's users really.. no biggie for me it's not being changed

IMO this is an amazing update!




Calogero -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 12:49:12)

quote:

* Assault and Rusted Assault Bots
- Debuff reduction lowered from 80% to 65%



So after Assault Bot owners get a Montreal Job by releasing the Rusted one, you now nerf both to the same...
worst varium spend ever




Oba -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 12:49:41)

quote:

* Assault and Rusted Assault Bots
- Debuff reduction lowered from 80% to 65%


Truth be told, I think this nerf only should be for the rusted assault bot.




One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 12:51:35)

Rabble I like everything I see here and find the fact that no changes to be made to Gamma Bot to be very humorous just because I remember all the hate it got when it came out and it turned out to be, in the Dev's eyes, the most balanced for its purpose.

But with that said I have one question, why make the Infernal Androids special blockable instead of deflectable like the Vaults beam attack?

If it is blocked the damage goes to 0% which we all know but if you deflect it it loses 50% of its damage and that is pretty painful if your counting on this bot to be your heavy hitter or even battle ender. Also, and this is purely speculation, wouldn't making the Infernal Android's special blockable lower its effectiveness against hunter based classes because of Shadow Arts increased block rate, and seeing how Cyber Hunter is one of the dominating classes on Delta V right now that would give them two edges with the Infernal Android. The first being Shadow Arts like I said and the second being Malfunction which would increase the damage done by Infernal Android's special. But like I said that is all speculation and could be wrong and please do point out if it is wrong.




Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 12:52:39)

Blockable. I see. Still good Bot since it favours Tank builds and competes with Gamma in that case. Yeti was a must and Bio too. The effects going down to 65% are also great, wanted that for a while althoug Focus system could've been more fun to prevent abuse of effects. XD

I want all Bots now. Still have chance to get Bio and buy Yeti with Varium and perhaps get better Physical Gun with it but it costs money and I don't have much now.. XD




friend18 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 12:58:03)

quote:

Truth be told, I think this nerf only should be for the rusted assault bot.


This is quite true. The majority of players had to purchase the assault bot with varium (and creds).

quote:

But with that said I have one question, why make the Infernal Androids special blockable instead of deflectable like the Vaults beam attack?


This is a good suggestion. I completely forgot about the special being blockable. Why not make the attack deflectable and reduce the overall damage cap? The bot is still a viable option and by the time it reaches my proposed 130%, it'll still be deadly. The way I see it, longer fights are more of a challenge. The Infernal Android at 150% damage cap would most likely end those fights that stretch out. At 130% max damage, it'll do slightly less damage.




Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 13:03:55)

Me gusta.

I feel as if a parody of the infernal droid is in order:

IMMA FIRIN' MA LAZA (or I'm a farmer in Malaysia)!

*is blocked*

NOPE.




ReinXI -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 13:09:42)

here's the way I see it.. 80% at first going up 5% a round ... that's 115% at first rage so it wont hit for 150% damage until round 14... that has to be the longest 2v2 I have heard of.. unless it was like two ch tanks heal looping etc etc... most of the time battles probably wont even hit the dmg cap.. and still 150% dmg that can be blocked gives the player a choice hit them with the IMA CHARGIN MAH LAZAH or... they could use a rage gun/ aux thats guaranteed to hit but for less damage at the chance of being halved due to a deflect.




Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 13:22:00)

I knew my favorite bot was going to get nerfed because of this. I really don't care that it can't affect the bio borg anymore since I saw that coming but I am a little upset that it's effect is now 65% if that is what is set in stone. Now strength spammer who buff themselves with strength as well as the dex and tech spammers will have 15% more to work with.

Also to the person who said is ok that gamma didn't get a nerf or buff because it is perma rare that is completely unfair. The Azreal borg is also perma rare and it got nerfed. That is no excuse for Gamma not to be affected by this.




XxKirachanXx -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 13:27:28)

I might get a little trouble for this, but I'm glad the assault/rusted bot and az bot were nerfed

Especially the azreal bot... *shiver* never have I seen a bot that could totally wreck my build like that...
I once had a supp build as a bh that focused on reflex boost that I ditched because of this bot...




One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 13:28:13)

@Mother gamma bots nerf was using one bot skill sends the other into cooldown that limited the ability to use a five focus tank build and spam really powerful gamma bot attacks




Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 13:31:24)

One winged angel1357 that nerf was when it was the first and only bot and when it didn't have a cooldown. Also how is that a nerf now when ALL bots follow this system now?

XxkirachanXx while this helps weaker players it also help all of the stat spammers as well sadly. Buff and nerfs are like double edged swords. You can help one without the other.

Also making the beam blockable instead of deflectable? Bad call big time. This not only helps the hunter classes (Since they have higher chances for blocks then the rest due to shadow arts) but also doesn't follow the delta vault layout since that beam was never blockable only deflectable.




shadesofblue -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 13:32:19)

Overall, I'm pretty happy with the changes, although I agree that only the rusted assault bot should be nerfed, not the regular one.




Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 13:37:56)

Shadesofblue I actually agree with that one. Ever since that bot came out I was thinking wtf? why does it have the same strength ability as the original. It is suppose to be a weaker version of the original meaning that it's attack and ability is suppose to be weaker not just the attack. however if that happened now non varium players would be throwing a hissy fit about that one complaining 'Why did the our bot get a nerf but not the original it isn't fair.




One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 13:42:33)

@Mother first you can call me OWA its easier to type and I pick up on comments directed to OWA faster then my full forums name. Second Gamma Bot was the second bot in the game, first was the assault bot, and each attack had the same cool down as using your aux so sadly both parts of that statement you made are false.




ansh0 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 13:45:33)

quote:

IMMA FIRIN' MA LAZA (or I'm a farmer in Malaysia)!


+1 for you, sir.




Drianx -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 13:51:48)

@RabbleFroth

Please keep in mind that Tactical Mercenary is a class that has no debuffs, so it is the class that technically benefits the most from Assault Bot.

Basically after this adjustment it will be weaker against classes that rely on debuffs, such as Bounty Hunter. And Tactical Mercenary was already weak against smoke-massacre bounties.

What I am trying to say is a class rebalancing is needed too.

Also we need a clarification: will the infernal android beam attack still be unblockable? If so, you should also balance the other bots in a similar manner, such as Pyro Fly and Gamma Bot beam attacks should be turned unblockable, or at least deflectable.




Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 13:55:01)

Thanks for correcting me on the matter of bot order since I thought Gamma came before the assault bot. However OWA the nerf you mentioned (Unless the Assault bot didn't follow this at the time) is on every single robot that is in the game now (with the exception of the new one when the update comes since it will be 4) So my point is why is it "Now" That gamma is left the same while the others were either nerfed or buffed?

But on another note I remember when the Baby yeti was like the gamma bot before it got nerfed. There was a time where if you used the regular move first the other didn't go into cool down until you used it. But when I did that to a player when it was legit they reported it and within that same update the baby yeti got nerfed.




One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 14:03:42)

Because Gamma is made to do a set in stone damage. Notice how none of the bot's normal damages are being changed just the specials, well gamma's special is to do its normal damage with energy instead of physical. So there really is no need to nerf it's special because in reality it is the least special special(if that makes any sense).


@Drainx in teh new update the Androids special will be blockable




ansh0 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 14:06:51)

You nerfed the Android by lowering it's(special) damage. Fine.

Increased cooldown(on just the special or both attacks?). Why?

Made the special blockable instead of deflectable. Why?




8x -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 14:19:32)

Assault Bot is like the one thing that keeps me from getting killed as a tactical mercenary (since mineral armor can't do much if you get smoked and blood shield is useless). I guess now I have another reason to never change back to TLM.




Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 14:25:02)

8X Especially since the so call 'fixing of the bug that alter skills' If you ask me it was more of just a nerf for the merc and tech merc classes since no other class was affected by that.

But yeah it is even worse when you have moves that can bypass physical defenses as well such as cheap shot, (when physical claws are used) and the bunker blaster. but this is the backlash what happens when someone isn't properly tested, and the users complain about it in the process.




helloguy -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/15/2012 14:28:10)

I'm telling you that was there plan all along to use this as an excuse to nerf the other bot's




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