Blind battles (Full Version)

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Remorse -> Blind battles (1/13/2013 3:47:43)

As we all should know by now many skill cores are to be added aswell as it changing from weapons to be a separate equipable. This means we won't know what our opponents have equipped.


Also as more robots are added it will be hard to tell what they have equipped.

Do you think these skill and specials should be left unknown or do you think they need to add some way of viewing what our opponents skills are.

I personally like the idea of blind battles but think that it should be perhaps a separate battle mode for it, but I would prefer the normal battle modes to give a full insight into your opponents skills.

I also have a few ideas for ways that can be done.

-add highlightable images of the opponents robot special and skill cores which when you click you have a description placed above the players heads.
-add all the skills equipped to the skill tree unlinked from the rest. Preferably below the other skills.

What do you guys think it should be like? Discuss.



Blaze The Aion Ender -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 5:25:35)

I think it is good with some unknown, but some known

This way, you can understand your opponent, and try to figure out which one would be best for their build, and then figure out which one they have from it

Or you could check their char page

But regardless, it is a good thing so you don't know EXACTLY what your opponent is going to do



Crimson Eagle -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 5:36:43)

I don't really mind at all about this.

If we fight blind, we fight blind. If we see our opponents moves, we see our opponents moves.

It doesn't bother me. Not ONE bit!

~Crimson Eagle!



Remorse -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 5:38:20)

I disagree, I prefer to know anything my opponent can do.

This way games are more determined by strategy rather then luck.



Blitzex/Sr. Zeph -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 6:11:42)

First off al, we dont even know if the skill cores will be displayed or not.
This is only speculation from you so i cant really discuss anything until Omega is here because we dont know if there will be blind battling.

Except that, i do want them to show the cores.
I want to be aware of what the opponent can do.



King FrostLich -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 6:20:24)

quote:


If we fight blind, we fight blind. If we see our opponents moves, we see our opponents moves.

It doesn't bother me. Not ONE bit!


That means you won't realize your enemy has a skill core in all his weapons that have massive strike, stun shot, and frostbite with other weapons that don't look that good.



Blitzex/Sr. Zeph -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 6:31:26)

^ They wont.

All the current specials will remain on there current weapons.
So massive strike will stay exclusive to the Interdictors, same as spreadfire with the Dages.



Vypie -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 7:20:50)

@Remorse

In my opinion, I think it's much more interesting if we don't reveal everything.

Finding out how your opponent works during the battle, and changing your tactics acordingly is REAL strategy.
Just because some information is hidden, that wont mean chaos, or luck based fights.

The element of surprise can be used by both sides, and I think it's fun to not have everything spoiled. Discovering your enemy tactics should be part of a true battle.


This game already shows tons of information. We would not fight blind at all, and most of the time we could predict some things.
I've played many games where you don't know that much about your opponent, and it's not a big deal, neither game breaking.

I would be fine with either option, though.



Dimentic -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 8:07:38)

I'm strongly against hiding skill cores. The luck factor already plays a decisive role in most battles. I want to be able to predict and eventually counter my opponent's moves.



Remorse -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 9:21:41)

@sir zeph

I know it's speculation that is why the topic is if you bothered to read the whole post is which do you prefer.


@vypie.

I do think that it would be fun, but I fear with so many skill cores being added it may be to hard to account for skills by guessing, you may need to know from round one but it may be fine, I will wait and see on that.


But I would still prefer to know everything in the normal battle mode and leave blind battles to new battle modes.



Midnightsoul -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 12:31:12)

Perhaps when u click on ur opponent's build, you can look at his/her skills, but then there is an arrow that will turn to another list titled "skill cores"

Basically how you do when u view someone's achievements or your own



Xendran -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 12:36:03)

Since this is becoming more of a concern for players as we grow closer to omega, i'll post my views: The most likely thing to happen at this current time is a skill core that allows you to view the cores of other players.
My issue with a core like this: it's mandatory if you want to have an optimal battle against other players. If you do not use this core, you are making a mistake, and cores that are nearly required to equip should not exist.

The proper solution is to have a toggle screen that switches between their skill tree and equipped cores.

Anybody who thinks hiding skill cores is 'strategic': Guessing at random skills your enemy might use out of a pool that is going to eventually be massive is not strategy.
Guessing to that extent in a pvp game is NEVER strategy, and is damaging to the game.
(NOTE: Skills that disable you from targeting or viewing the HUD are NOT introducing guesswork into the battle to this extent. A 1/2 chance to hit either target is something much easier to accomodate for than guessing what 8 skills out of an eventual likely 100+ your opponent is using. You also KNOW that you have a 50-50 chance for both targets.)




TurkishIncubus -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 13:07:19)

i think we should be able to see skill cores but i dont mind if we dont since my opponents also will not see my skill cores.



Mother1 -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 14:42:41)

@ remorse

When you actually have a fight in real life do you know anything about your opponent if it is first time fight? No you don't. Even right now people don't want it like this because they are afraid of what could happen. This is one of the 2 reason why their is no diversity among builds.

The first being people copy other people's builds instead of thinking of their own and the second many are afraid of tasting different builds due to the fear of a bad record.

But all in all not supported. we already get to see the builds everyone is using which we can use to make counters or fight was to defeat our opponents. Revealing everything about the opponent including bots and special cores will make us worry more about countering each other 100% rather then having fun doing the duel.



Xendran -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 14:52:35)

This is a turn based pvp strategy game, and is intended to be competetive.
Hiding strategic options like this totally destroys the competetiveness and will end up turning it into a casual game with very little build-checking, number crunching or strategic counters involved.

The thing with skill cores, is that there will be more than enough of them to prevent full-counters. Another important aspect is that focusing on counters is also going to limit your other options, because counters are very specifc.



Mother1 -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 15:14:43)

@ xendran

Not everyone plays it in that sense and even though this is a turn based game it is also based on battle, and unless you studied you opponent before the battle you won't know anything about them until you fight them will you? We already have all the info on our opponent but the bots we used handed on a silver platter.

When Omega comes if they were to display the cores we have as well as the bots we are using people will be more concerned about how everyone can counter you or what they can do with these cores rather then enjoying the battle because they are thinking about what their opponent could do to them. That right there will suck out any fun or surprise other then the standard block, crit, stun, or deflection.




Xendran -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 15:23:25)

1. It doesnt matter if people play it like that. What matters is the way the game is intended, which is to cater to the hardcore crowd.
2. Realism in epicduel? Pistols in this game are 2 feet long.
2. The whole point of this game is countering. If you do not counter your opponent properly you lose.


This game is not about cruising through battles easily and not worrying about win rates. Battles are meant to induce stress, not relieve it, that's the purpose of winning the battle and being rewarded for winning with credits, XP and a win.
This is the same reaosn that win rates are displayed, you are meant to strive for a better win rate.
Counters are actually a VERY important part of skill cores, and is one of the main aspects of their design.

If the developers wanted a casual game, they would not display win rates, there would be no daily leaderboads (you think these are meant to be 'enjoyable'? The enjoyment comes from winning), the faction system would not be as competative, and they would not be willing to remake the battle system from the ground up for the sake of competetive balance.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 15:49:04)

The idea of a battle where you cant view anything about your opponent is intriguing and also allows for some very interesting strategies. I would support adding it as a separate battle mode like juggernaut sometime in the future. But it wouldn't be a priority until omega is established and all the balance issues are ironed out.

As far as skill cores a lot of them will reveal themselves by their effects, that is passive HP gains, but a passive increased connect or crit chance would be impossible to tell. I like the idea of skill cores being hidden though, so a player could have a hidden ace up their sleeve to play unexpectedly.

I also agree with everything Xendran said.



Xendran -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 15:52:37)

quote:

separate battle mode


This is a good idea.



Mother1 -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 15:54:14)

@ giras

You just contridicted yourself when you said that a player should have a hidden ace in the hole and then agreed with Xendran. Xendran wants everything revealed and by doing so you wouldn't have a hidden ace in the whole because your opponent will be able to see it.

But on the first part about having an ace in the hole that is what we will be losing if everything is displayed for your opponent to see. Unless of course it is something that can't be countered like the infernal android or any of the current skills that are on weapons and armors since you opponent can see it but can't do anything about it.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 16:00:24)

By everything I mostly mean his post above mine. (i.e. the whole point of the game is countering) I think what we need to know is if skill cores are going to be low key passives like the current weapon effects or game changers like chairman's fury.

We ABSOLUTELY need to know if our opponent could steal our rage at any time because it would change our strategy. Currently this is not a problem since only one armor can do that, but if ANY armor could have a skill like that it MUST be displayed on the character.



Vypie -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 16:11:56)

If there is a separate mode, battles will become harder to find for everyone. It is not a good idea.



Xendran -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 16:25:53)

@Giras: Check out the suggestions forum. The skills in the main section of the first post are what skill cores are going to be like. They are not low-key, and they are customizable unless otherwise stated (Uniquies).



Giras Wolfe -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 16:41:43)

@vypie

After juggernaut was released, I could still find a 1v1 match in about zero seconds. I really don't think this would be a problem as long as there was an access key that had to be purchased before you could enter the battle mode.

And obviously blind 2v2 or juggernaut is out of the question



Xendran -> RE: Blind battles (1/13/2013 16:48:34)

Blind 1v1 should just award standard 1v1 wins, btw.



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