RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (Full Version)

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Ranloth -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/25/2013 12:17:11)

And, apparently, you know more than Devs. They've said IA is NOT meant to be a copy of Gamma Bot. Look back through DN threads in GD and DNs - stating that it's supposed to be one-off special for higher amount of damage, just like the Vault did.



Darkwing -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/25/2013 13:31:41)

What have devs to with it? The fact that robot is way too similar, you can see for yourself.



Mother1 -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/25/2013 13:53:07)

@ darkwing

Similar =/= exact

The thing that set them apart besides the art and rarity score is the same special and attack boost you want removed.

While I personally think the bot should be removed from the game and everyone's money refunded robbing the bot of it's identity and ripping off the people who brought it is far worse.



Ranloth -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/25/2013 14:08:35)

"way too similar" - they share blockable attack, just like every single Bot in the game, and have Energy attack that has higher damage and once per battle whilst Gamma Bot deals 100% damage flat and useable more than once. Totally similar. The only thing they share is special attack being Energy.

Similar =/= the same. What do Devs have to do with it? Because they've stated IA =/= Gamma Bot and they will not change IA to work exactly like Gamma Bot.



H O L L O W -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/25/2013 16:16:28)

@goldslayer: You can't compare massacre to SS. Mass is not op because it doesn't steal rage and it isnt life-stealing. Its also alot easier to counter because the classes that use it dont have conversion.



Mother1 -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/25/2013 17:25:15)

@ hollow

Merc doesn't have conversion and they use surgical strike. Cyber hunter has Static which gives them back energy. Also for Bounty hunter you will get back health no matter what since you have to go through bloodlust to get to massacre.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/25/2013 19:14:03)

quote:

You can't compare massacre to SS. Mass is not op because it doesn't steal rage and it isnt life-stealing. Its also alot easier to counter because the classes that use it dont have conversion.


you can do 77 damage with 0 strength at max massacre.

you need 83 tech for your surgical to do 77 damage.
with 84 strength you already added 17+ more damage to massacre.

this is assuming no debuffs are used. mercs and tlm dont have any.

by nerfing SS (which is fine) you are nerfing mercs.



Tushar -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/25/2013 19:24:26)

Surigical strike is fine... because if they nerf SS merc players will be more weak i guess.

IA is the problem... Since it gets damage increased every turn player use it alot...

I agree that it is now more expensive but people already bought it from infernal war...

I know it is very bad idea... but why don't they make it's special 100% and usable like gamma bot... making it cheaper...

Or simply nerf It's max damage...

I always get trouble because of this bot... Even having 39-45 res(caster build) a guy did 57 on rage...

I know rage ignors 45% but still...



Elloisoul -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/26/2013 0:22:01)

I dont get what peoples problem is with it but if your afraid of the IA rage then simply kill them before they use it or Surgical strike Emp them or kill them before they use it , when i play i usually win within 3-4 turns weather its a Tank Tlm or those Caster builds you guys just dont know how to calculate your attacks to be enough for the kill or to know when you getting hit by this X move to know you will still be alive



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/26/2013 1:37:37)

both of them don't require a nerf, the recent bunny bot and the botanical hazard s even more powerful than the android considering that it has more base damage, ultimate skills are fine as it is, the skills that actually require nerfs are plasmabolt, malfunction and smokescreen, seriously, plasmabolt is even more effective and powerful than surgical strike or super charge.



edwardvulture -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/26/2013 2:36:03)

Its funny because this is like the only build that works for TlM in one on one(not that I use it)



I Underlord I -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/27/2013 12:16:42)

Infernal Android is not overpowered; the yetis and the newer robots are those that are.

Focus and the fact that robot power scales with technology is problematic, rather than the Android itself.
Its special can only be used once per game, can be deflected, and improves with technology like every other bot. It has a base damage of only 12, which generally applies to defensive bots alone. This also gives the Android only a blockable (if you will) physical attack for legitimate use.

In a standard battle (e.g. one that lasts more than four or five rounds), and especially in 2v2, the net damage of the other offensive bots outstrips that of IA quite a bit.
IA only appears overpowered because too often do 5-focus technology-abusing players use it with Rage in later rounds.



upgradefire -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/27/2013 20:46:43)

nerf both and stat abusers



goldslayer1 -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/27/2013 20:48:23)

quote:

nerf both and stat abusers

how do u even "abuse" a stat?
every other lvl 35 fully gear has the same stats as u.



upgradefire -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/27/2013 20:54:24)

quote:

how do u even "abuse" a stat?
every other lvl 35 fully gear has the same stats as u.


i mean the people with way over 100 points invested in one stat category execpt health



Mother1 -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/27/2013 20:57:09)

@ upgradefire

Ok you do that, and even more threads like this will pop up since people who have 100+ in one stat would be those extreme one stat builds. This would only push people to use focus builds even more which is what the masses are screaming needs to be nerfed for the other builds to come back.



spinutto -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/28/2013 10:54:48)

And what about the rise of the ''quick kill'' builds?
I'm talking about the high str, high support and high debuff( TM,CH, BH)
By the same logic as the OP, I should be asking a diminish return both on smoke and malfunction, since appears that they have the same scaling the had back in
Delta and did not follow the diminishing stats update in Omega.
How about it?



Hard boy -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/28/2013 14:13:24)

If you nerf sergical, regular mercs get effected. If you nerf infernal it becomes real up, I suggest buffing other classes to become able to counter it, or remove the energy addition to generator.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/29/2013 2:11:25)

quote:

i mean the people with way over 100 points invested in one stat category execpt health

big whoop!

put all your stats into 1 side, leave your others weak.
this is why deflects, blocking, and critting all belong to their own separate stats. so you have advantages and disadvantages for putting up more or less of any stat.

i dont know why "stat abusing" is frowned upon.
are you trying to suggest that having 45 in all stats is a more acceptable way of playing the game?



Mother1 -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/29/2013 2:24:51)

@ goldslayer

Because 'Stat abusing' is how quick kill builds are made, and while they have quite a few counters the most common excuse I here is "Why should I be forced to use X to counter Y when my build should be able to counter it anyways"

Besides from my experience everyone will never be happy, and even if they managed to get the game as close to balance as possible someone will complain about that as well.



kosmo -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/29/2013 8:14:36)

mother thats a rlly good point, they tried 2 buff some classes like tm or mercs making them op in some cases, a support merc whit 180 support points can kill u in 2 mooves if he crits, and tht is rlly cammon, that doesnt mean that i should be forced using an high energy drain( which gives 2 support merc 0 % to win).
at the same way if u face an arzel tm as a bh u will have alot of problem if u dont deflect them, or if u dont have a huge resistence, or if u dont have yeti etc..
what im sayng is tht classes like tm and merc ar UP and OP at the same time.

about max surgical build they dont rlly need a nerf (even if in my opinion SS is way better than massacre and supercharge), thanks 2 thes new frost shards, all classes (including bm) are able to stop a tlm from using a lvl 7-8-9-10 SS.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/29/2013 10:09:39)

^

Why on earth should your build be able to universally counter all other builds, without any apparent weakness? That's a ridiculous and corrosive expectation. Some builds are just going to be at an inherent disadvantage against others. Focus is so popular precisely because it provides the greatest flexibility to counter any potential build, not as effectively as natural/specifically devised counters, but also not with the blindsights and weaknesses that come with a specialised build.

And of course, there are builds which are able to give Focus builds a hard time.



frogbones -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/29/2013 10:59:31)

Spinutto has it right.

With the changes to health in Omega, the amount that smoke and malf take off should have been adjusted as well.

Somehow they overlooked that.

How?



Ranloth -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/29/2013 11:05:58)

Not necessarily overlooked. With lower amount of stats available to be invested, Smoke and Malf wouldn't be as efficient as they were with enhancements. Perhaps they wouldn't have thought this would create imbalance due to lack of data? After progression for stats was adjusted during Omega, it could further justify why this wasn't changed; lower damage; not as abuseable.

Some things cannot be predicted when planning. In the same way - why did you not mention it prior to Omega? We've had videos, we were told enhancements were leaving and we were told about base HP going up but HP/EP gaining +1 HP per stat point. Yet no one has mentioned Malf/Smoke may be too strong. Perhaps... they didn't know without data? Both, players and Devs.



frogbones -> RE: Surgical Strike OR Infernal Android Nerf (4/29/2013 12:09:36)

It's the devs' job, not mine.

It's funny (pathetic, really) how so many players have been tricked or otherwise bought in to thinking that balancing the game is their responsibility.

What you're suggesting, trans, is that we do the work that someone else gets paid to do.

That's it.

No obfuscating, please.



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