RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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GreenGuy23 -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 14:34:38)

@necro lol Yeah there's no free save, but it's really not a HUGE deal if you have the Armor Closet, I just think that it would be nice to have, considering it's the mascot for the game, and Guardian has one, so why not DL?

EDIT: Also, I gotta say, I love the name for the DoT from the Flame Skill XD Burninate... Must BURNINATE EVERYTHING!
ANOTHER EDIT: I just noticed the wings on Heart are CC (at least on CCDL) and they look SO NICE. I have my DL matching my Dragon, and my Dragon's wings are that style of wings, so it looks like my dragon is helping me ^.^



Ash -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 14:44:49)

Which version are you guys using? It's not happening to me on any of them...



Alm Nullamors -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 14:45:37)

I'm enjoying the changes to the Earth skill, +50 All was interfering with health recovery before. The one drawback of All resistance, I suppose...
There's CC Heart wings on the evolved CC version too. Not that I'm really complaining though, the previous version's wings were out of place on my red/black armor.



GreenGuy23 -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 14:46:46)

I'm using the CCDL (not Evolved).



Deviance -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 14:46:47)

I'd say that I have a problem with Dragonsoul but I just cant :P There is practically no way we can get that low in health, unless we dont use it the right way, and its spammable to an extent, so it doesn't have to have a HUGE damage output. The only problem I have with this class are the aethetics. Evolved DL, imo, is an eyesore, and the regular DL is just hard to match items with, but those are just trivial problems. Some birthday in the future, Im sure they'll be touched up, but for now, great, great class.



David the Wanderer -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 14:49:56)

@Ash; I used the base version. If it helps, after equipping it, I went straight to the Dragonlord Training quest to fight against Hard Mode Old Man of the Mountain. (Or "Old MoM", as I love to call him)



Ash -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 14:51:28)

quote:

I'm using the CCDL (not Evolved).

Weird. I can't duplicate it. Try clearing your cache and restarting your browser? It may have a conflict with the earlier fix I did.

quote:

Evolved DL, imo, is an eyesore, and the regular DL is just hard to match items with, but those are just trivial problems.

Is it the Male CCEDL? If it's that, that's my fault from last year since I didn't have a whole lot of a clue what I was doing at that point in terms of making CC work right. I'm in the process of fixing the CC art on male to not look horrible anymore. I did the changes to the female CCEDL for this release but just didn't have to time to get male fixed back up. I don't know exactly when but if you have a female you can see the approximate differences in terms of how they look between fixed and my hacked fix job from last year.



Deviance -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 15:03:33)

Actually I think the CC is working just fine, if not great. Its just my taste in what the class looks like. The art just feels... off, tho it may just be my own opinion.



GreenGuy23 -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 15:05:16)

@Ash Will do, after I finish this quest. I'll edit the results into here.

Have to say this class is really working well. I'm facing Valrith from the 13th 13th War, and I'm still at about 80% health or so and he's almost down. My only problem is that the class seems to lock up a little bit when you're late in battles, leaving you with only Bite/Rush. It seems to manage itself really well, and I'm able to get in some kind of defense in every time one wears off though, so that's good.

Also, I honestly don't mind EDL/CCEDL. I don't have have them, but I still kinda like them.



Rayen -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 15:16:32)

@Ash. I'm pretty sure that if you use any of the Dragon Spirit skills without then using Dragon Heart in the same battle, it remains unlocked between battles until used.
Yeah, that's intentional. It's the unlock on equip that isn't and that I can't replicate. ~Ash

I love the new changes to DL...it seems almost hilariously defensive in that you can sit at 200 health against something that deals 400 damage and not even worry about getting killed [:D]

For those who struggle to lower your health in DL, something to remember is that Valencia has a broken healing pad that removes your health. You can un-heal yourself to 40% and let yourself get hit a few times or go straight to <20% to unlock the Dragon Soul skill. I don't think this is considered some sort of skill abuse?

The only complaint or regret I have regarding DL is that it doesn't directly gain any benefit from having your dragon with you in battle, and neither does your dragon gain any benefit. When Dragon Soul was unlocked by a DoT, you could occasionally combo your dragon's DoT skills with Soul, which was some interaction between the dragon/dragonlord, but still not much. I would've liked to have seen maybe one or two skills that buff your guest dragon (eg. light reduces draco's cooldowns by 2) or gain a buff from having your guest dragon in your party ('having your dragon close gives you +5 MRM or +5% boost) - essentially making the DL armour an 'artefact' for the dragon's skills or the dragon an artefact for DL's skills. I don't know whether any of that would've be possible anyway, but I've always felt that having some synergy between dragon and Dragonlord would be fitting.

Regardless, DL is a seriously impressive armour and remains a heap of fun to use. Plus hats off and many thanks to whoever CC'd the Dragon Heart wings. Was literally jumping around my room the instant I used that skill [:D] Awesome birthday present, thanks!



Ash -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 15:26:45)

The issue I ran into was two fold.

Giving it that type of passive meant that I would have had to both re-balance the skills on DL AND on the pet different from what they currently are. That type of interaction would also mean it would be mandatory to use your dragon with the armor by anyone attempted to max out their character and that's not the intent. I'd rather you use the armor and pet/guest at the same time because you WANT to rather than because it gives you a 12% advantage. The DL passive is wrapped up in Bite/Rush and Soul lowering the cooldowns and costs instead of an outward benefit. I also upped the M/P/M of the armor to 10 by default so you get a small amount of defense as well.

The other part of the issue is that crossing stuff over like that is a headache to code and could cause issues. While we can still go back and add stuff to it for the DL artifact so that it does interact with the dragon while you have it, it can cause buggy issues in terms of the armor skills going off in an odd way or the effects not even procing when you have the guest equipped. I'd rather wait and have more time to puzzle through the best way to do it to link that to the Artifact boost rather than trying to rush it for this past week.




Darius -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 15:34:09)

d00d... CC wings on DragonHeart! *o* Dragonlord now officially rules! xD The multitude of new defensive options are also stellar! Well done, Ash!



GreenGuy23 -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 15:34:11)

The Heart skill staying unlocked was what the "bug" was. I didn't realise that. Also, Ash, the bes part about Guest/Pet Dragon and CCDL is that you can match your Dragon and yourself to each other and it looks AMAZING. It looks SO NICE. Only thin I do wish was special about the Dragon was that it didn't increase enemy health that much. Kinda makes it a pain to fight bosses..

Also, is there already a DL Artifact? Ifso, where can I get it O.o?



Rayen -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 15:41:15)

@above. There isn't a DL artefact currently. I'm sure you'd know about it if there was [;)]

@Ash. It's hard to argue with someone who thinks of everything and has the benefit of knowing what they're talking about [:D] Perfectly understandable on all grounds, then.

Your mention of a DL artefact was something I wasn't expecting. I'm sure it was mentioned before, but which classes are likely to get related artefacts and when are you likely to look into implementing those (ie. near future, moderately distant future, very distant future).

Also, I just went and compared a screenshot of the CC armour from last year to how it is now...and I've gotta say, sometimes you don't notice something's broke till it's fixed. Looks so much better now!



WornDogma -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 16:46:05)

I like the tweaks,defense truly befiiting of a class that can ride the world destroyer and not get airsick.

My only curiousity is if dragonheart implies anything for the lore, are high level dragonlords capable extremly short high speed flight?Is it just a represtation of the hero dragon-sized determination and the resultant burst power they can draw from it?

I kinda of want it to be that powerful dragonlords can fly so I can imagine that dragon lords host a high speed drag(on) racing tournment called Initial D(ragon) every once in a while.

Their dragon partners could even join in and sing knight of fire in the background.



crabpeople -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 16:49:48)

Mmmm...
quote:

Go do some testing or even use your bugged bone fire test that you always use,

I never test classes with bugged bone fire.
quote:

Don't just look at something at first glance and be upset. Go test it out, like I've said for every single revamp, and THEN come complaining.

I said "(I have to test stuff so the rant will come later)"

I come to complain? Yes but don't take what I'm gonna say very seriously cuz I won't be objective (I'l tell later why).
Imagine that you had 10 points and you had to assign them in attack and defense: Old DL would be 3,5 attack-6,5 defense. New DL would be 1,5 attack-8,5 defense. (according to me ofc).
Yes the tweak was meant to make DL an even tankier class and It was a succes for most of you except for me (I'll say why later).
The offense got affected? Yes in the mid-long term due to the cd increases. In the short term it stays as the same... maybe it got buffed (the mult is stronger and the fire skill is better than before I think).
All of that made DL a way more practical class.

What this class can do?
-This class is arguably the best class for long quests. The 35% heal, the 30% mp heal (best mp heal in the game) make you unkillable. After that you have the 155% mult, the crit and heart for the offense.
-This class is unkillable on "normal" sitatuions. Shield,blind,stun+immo res nerf,2 damage reduction skills,a heal...

What this class can't do?
-Kill a large hp monster or a boss fast (it's a very defensive class after all).
-Kill a monster with large hp and self healing moves.
-Kill a monster that heavily stuns you or ignores part of your defenses (the first because it can hit you while you're not covered under shield/blind and the second because it goes though your shield/blind *cough* dr when *cough*).

So after I said all of that... Why I'm complaining? Because the +50 all skill got removed [:D] (I really hope to see it again on a future class). Is something that in theory does the same as a -50% powerboost skill that big of a deal? Yes... With a certain build that now is RARE. I really like the old DL immortality button (40 ALL resist + 50 from the skill = 90% ALL resist. With the Mask fragment addition from this release-> 42 ALL+50 =92 ALL resist). That and some ele resistance made you immortal and unable to get stunned. The other 50% of the time you were covered under the shield and using the heal/mp regen at that period. The rest was pretty much dots and heart.

Again as I said before I'M NOT BEING OBJECTIVE cuz I don't think a class should excel with a certain item set and be lacking for the rest. Those are just observations overall. I disliked the changes at first because (explained above) but now I'm getting used to them.

Suggestions:
-I think the class could be slighty more defensive at the cost of extra mana. The mana costs are kinda low for a t3 class. They are a bit lower than before for the most part. Also let's not forget that this class has a 30% mp regen skill.



Alm Nullamors -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 17:19:34)

^Honestly, I wasn't the biggest fan of the 50+ All resist. It greatly weakened my attempts to recover health.
This is much more prefereble for me.



Deviance -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 17:20:41)

I do apologize, but I went searching, not thoroughly enough, for the Bug Thread but couldn't find it. There are two things wrong:

Hex Codes aren't working for ECCDL
EDL, the arm is off. If you compare it for ECCDL, the arm placement is all weird and the head jutts outward.

I take back what i say about Evo looking ugly. Yeah its not like the other art that we have, but its not too bad. Just needs some color



Ash -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 17:21:26)

quote:

I never test classes with bugged bone fire.

Who's the one that kept using it all the time to judge classes on then? O.o

quote:

Is something that in theory does the same as a -50% powerboost skill that big of a deal? Yes... With a certain build that now is RARE. I really like the old DL immortality button (40 ALL resist + 50 from the skill = 90% ALL resist. With the Mask fragment addition from this release-> 42 ALL+50 =92 ALL resist). That and some ele resistance made you immortal and unable to get stunned. The other 50% of the time you were covered under the shield and using the heal/mp regen at that period. The rest was pretty much dots and heart.

Here's the issue with that. It causes you to regen far less. While yes, you take less damage, you arguably can be in a MUCH worse spot using it than you are using the 80/50 the skill is now. If you were to try and tank out damage while healing up using that skill you end up healing for less from all sources. All lowers the healing of healing skill for both HP and MP as well as lowering the amount you recover from potions. That in and of itself means that out of the only two skills you have to actually lower damage one you could never use when you were trying to actually heal through damage. Yes, you might have used the shield to heal under but not everyone did and I got far more complaints from other people that now are noticing how much the class can heal for. The damage lowering effect is also more powerful than just +50 All. For the average player it'll have a far greater effect in overall survivability compared to what they had before. Yes, I know you were framing it based on your personal wants but I wanted to explain why the skill itself was changed since that's what you were focusing on as your main gripe.

The changes weren't all just made because I liked the new skills. They were made due to several months of people telling me what they wanted out of the class revamp. The changed effects are a direct response to what most people asked if the class was getting. That's why things like the All resist was removed and replaced with the direct damage lowering on hit. It fit more with what people kept poking me about in terms of "when you do the changes are you going to do X?"

quote:

I do apologize, but I went searching, not thoroughly enough, for the Bug Thread but couldn't find it. There are two things wrong:

http://www.artix.com/bugs , it's also located right below the game window at the report a bug link.

quote:

Hex Codes aren't working for ECCDL
EDL, the arm is off. If you compare it for ECCDL, the arm placement is all weird and the head jutts outward.

First one I'm able to use the hec codes for both male and female ECCL. The second is something I can look at while I'm working on the male version.



dragon_monster -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 17:24:23)

The majority decides and either way what is the big issue you are still invincible.



crabpeople -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 18:03:44)

quote:

Who's the one that kept using it all the time to judge classes on then? O.o

Someone else I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. My punch bags are the cursed skeleton and Tomix (ending part 2).

Yeah. I thought something like that would be the reason of the +all skill removal. It didn't synergize with the mp/heal skills and looks like the playerbase didn't get the strategic part of using it outside that skill.
Well looking at the bright side the armor is now more friendly with -health/mana items.

Again I'll repeat myself with the "I wish I see a +all res skill again. Someday..."

dragon_monster: Yeah but I liked more the other immortality you know :) Well I still got my lovely necromancer deliverd by [sm=zorb_smilie.gif] sama.

I got a weird question about gameplay mechanics (unrelated with DL):
-When you have a powerboost nerf above 100%, your attacks heal the enemy. My question is how does that combine with enemy elemental resistance. Example: I attack with my ice weapon under a -110% powerboost nerf vs a mob with 50 ice res. What happens? The attack goes though as a 10% healing move or it interacts with the elemental res.?




Shadows Morgenstern -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 18:52:42)

...The shield block sound effect is gone? D: Awww...I really liked that tbh.

Yeah, this class is now everlasting. Honestly imo it's TOO good at staying alive but hey, that's just me. Earth spirit new animation is really good, nice clever one on that if that was you Ash! [;)] I also noticed that the three DoT offensive spirit skills are a LOT less laggy, especially light.

@Dev: I think regular DL is nice looking, but the CC sucks on it tbh and looks bad imo. Evolved DL...could do with a bit of a sprucing up art wise I think. It just does not look as good any more as the art of other classes has progressed. Especially compared to regular DL.



Aura Knight -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 19:05:58)

The new changes to the dragonlord class are great. I'm happy they removed the DoT effects from light and ice skills and replaced them with ones that make sense and ones that are more useful. The damage reduction skill is nice since it seems to simply heal back some of he damage taken. I'm a tad upset that the bite skill now has a cooldown but it isn't too bad since it is still free. I do wish the animations on the skills were a tad faster though. Especially rush. It seems the super combo attack was weakened a bit which is upsetting but not a huge problem. Overall, despite still being mostly defensive, dragonlord is quite fun to use.



Brasca123 -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 20:07:29)

the class is lovely right now, thx for the rework ash, it's appreciated



EchoKazul -> RE: =DF= DragonLord Discussion Thread (6/13/2015 20:54:55)

I'm so excited for this revamp. DragonLord was the class that I wanted to use the most, just because when NPC's refer to your class, then I'm being called a DragonLord, which really is the central theme of the game and what I should be called anyways. The only thing that would make this better is if they updated the face like some of the newer classes, so my character actually has pupils. And emotions other than the occasional eyebrow wiggle. Honestly, as somebody who only has female characters, I didn't even know there was supposed to be facial expressions. But sadly, this is probably something that requires a full art upgrade, and seeing as staff are pressed as they are, I'll make do with my coal eyes and range of eyebrow heights.

I did notice a bug, though. I'm not sure if it's an old one, and I've never noticed it before, or something new, but on my colored DragonLord armor, whenever my character does a straight thrust forward with her weapon, her gauntlet loses it's custom color and turns silver. The skills I've noticed affected by this are Fire, Bite, Rush, and Eye, though I could've missed a few.



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