RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Therril Oreb -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 3:49:09)

I like the paladin class. The skills fit and have their own unique animation. The light dragon spear being my obvious favorite. Back when he was released, he was a very decent class to use when fighting darkness creatures. Granted, the NDA side was not as balanced though the skills were unique nonetheless.

The biggest downside to the class is actually his looks. Many complained that the colors for the armor fitted nothing. Not even the paladin or guard items.

I don't think Paladin needs an "evolved" version of himself though. His skills on the left side might need a slight tweak and buff considering some skills rely on some luck as you gamble and hope you get the extra side effects. The right side is fine though. What could use a change is a slight change in looks so its fans can finally equip some matching items to it.

Another reason why I don't think paladin needs a revamp is because this class is tied to his saga and his other two classes.
Back when Paladin was released, an entire arc was based on necromancers, undead, paladins and deathknights. (which was a very good story still).
If you would now revamp the class, not only would it look weird since a new revamped armor would be in an old story and surroundings, but it would look unfair towards necromancers and deathknights.
Those two also are a part of it all and many did ask for a deathknight revamp as well.

The best situation would be if you would have some kind of extra story that involves the three classes again and give them an evolution or revamp in there rather then just dumping it in the darkness orb saga.
But considering the long list DF has on their todo list, I doubt there is much time for this.

Nonetheless, I like the class the way it is and will always like the background it has.



samdalrymple123 -> RE: =DF= DoomKnight Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 4:24:53)

Yeah, I agree.

Maybe when/ if we get to Doomwood in Book three some random guy can give us a quest to upgrade our paladins to a 'tier II'. Maybe it could be Dracelix or Artix, and it would look like their armours, who knows. Not much would be needed in the way of presenting us a way to upgrade: just a 'bring me five undead bones/essences from this random quest (and also have the fully upgraded paladin and the darkness orb saga complete etc). A bit like we can upgrade doom weapons, but rather than specific quests, just bring the guy a few undead from any quest that gives undead essences. This way the staff would'nt even be required to give new quests

Then later, we could meet up with a Tier II Necromancer and have that upgraded as well etc.



Lemonus -> RE: =DF= DoomKnight Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 5:53:55)

Well my only complaint is the non-DA side which I currently only have access to. I mean c'mon, even non-DA Necro isn't entirely useless.



Galez -> RE: =DF= DoomKnight Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 6:55:05)

like what lemonus said the non DA side needs some work so we can get more fairness toward people who wanted to be a Paladin. other than that i think the class is fine the way it was now.



bokterier -> RE: =DF= DoomKnight Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 6:59:18)

Yes, Paladin! ^_^
Even if the skills is outdated, it is still one armour that is fun playing. The light skillset is really good against darkness enemies, but thats it... :/
The design is more like a thin layer of steel, as my vision is that they should have decent heavy armour and some helms/weapons/capes that would fit a Paladin. After all they have to defend themselves from the hordes of undead, and heal their comrades.



Lemonus -> RE: =DF= DoomKnight Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 7:16:33)

Another look at the second page reads...

RE: =DF= DoomKnight Discussion thread... Again.



bobtehnoob -> RE: =DF= DoomKnight Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 10:34:19)

Paladin should become a pure anti-undead armor, skills that are blatantly OP against undead, but are terrible against anything else.



Therril Oreb -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 11:37:23)

I disagree with you bobtehnoob. Originally, paladins are the defenders of the weak. Fighting all forces of darkness and chaos but would never raise their hand against the good or weak.
So their skills should be focused against the darkness but weak against the light. And darkness can be a lot, from demons to devils to undead and other dark magics.

Of course, every game or story has his own view on the paladin. And in AE's case it obviously goes more towards the undead because real demons or devils have yet to be seen in the DF Lore.

Who knows, if paladin (and hopefully necromancer and deathknight too) do get another look at, a more detailed view can be given to us on what exactly to be a paladin means.



Raharu95 -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 14:54:37)

@Faerdin I agree. What you said Redminded me a bit of Cecil from FF4. He can protect his allies with his own buddy as well as give buff, whether they be offensive or defensive. He was never big on Magic.

Now Skill that can protect and heal guess would be a really neat idea, and one that I would welcome openly. But the whole guess mechanic needs to be tweaked as well to make those skills useful. Since Guess now a days are more a Hindrance than Help, making the enemies stronger but not imputing enough damage to compensate, just making your battles Last longer in the process. Skill that would help them would only waste a turn, unless it was an offensive buff. Healing them would also be cool, but it becomes useless on bosses who are programmed not to attack guessed, and has the potential to become game breaking on bosses that do. I'd say yes to the whole buff and heal guess idea, but guesses really need to be improve before the idea would work.

Also, do you guys agree that the whole being locked to use the Element of light needs to go? Maybe not completely, but we already have Pyromancers who can make his flames do water damage. So, a Paladin using Darkness or any other element in his skills would not be far fetches.

Also... I agree. I do believe the Paladin Armor should be closer to either Artix's or Dracelix. Preferably Dracelix's since Artix's is suppose to be unique, and I honestly do think his look cool~ The one we have right now is not bad, but as others have said before, is it too Mecha XP



bobtehnoob -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 15:32:44)

You mean like paladins in D&D? Buff and debuff-heavy?



Talion -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 17:00:07)

awesome skills, awesome animations, but should be much more significantly efficient against undeads. Attacks are ok like this against normal monsters, but should deal 300% of that against undeads. That would make it interesting.



Mordred -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 17:20:07)

@Therril: I don't see the story having anything to do with revamps or not. If that were the case, then no class would ever be brought up to new standards without altering the story. And while I agree the right side is okay, the left is absolutely without a single redeeming factor and needs to be thrown out and started from scrap. Maybe keep the concept of having skills focused on debuffs and buffs, but there should be more variation for non-DA players(as it is, only DA players have access to the good skills), as well as not a normal attack with a chance for a buff/debuff. Favoritism against necromancers and deathknights? As I recall, those two classes were released much later than Paladin; IIRC, Deathknight was held off for a few months. Revamping the classes one at a time isn't favoritism.

quote:

And in AE's case it obviously goes more towards the undead because real demons or devils have yet to be seen in the DF Lore.

Infernals are demons. They just used the term infernals because the team had some issues with using the term demon. Still the same thing, though.

quote:

Paladin should become a pure anti-undead armor, skills that are blatantly OP against undead, but are terrible against anything else.

Paladins are Knights of Light, who fight against all evil, not just undead. They've developed *some* skill in dealing with undead though, because their greatest warzone has been Doomwood/Darkovia, a sea of necromancers and undead. But that doesn't mean it's all they're good for; just that they perform ever so slightly more effectively.



Faerdin -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 17:38:56)

If Paladin were revamped, it would be interesting if it received a passive 50% damage boost to Undead and Infernals to reflect what Mordred said above.
The Atealan Classes showed that Passive Skills are within the realm of possibility in Dragonfable. :)

Just wrote this as an example of roughly how defensive/support-oriented I would hope a revamped Paladin to be:
quote:

Scrutiny of Celeritas: 35 Mana, 4 turn cooldown. Deals 75% damage and adds -10 Light Resistance to all enemies for five turns.
Fealty in Flame: 20 Mana, 3 turn cooldown. 100% damage instantly, 50% damage each turn for four turns if Scrutinized to all enemies.
Divine Judgment: 25 Mana, 3 turn cooldown. 150% damage against all opponents, extra 150% dealt if Scrutinized.
Exorcism: 25 Mana, 3 turn cooldown. Purges all status effects from party members, then deals 200% damage to target enemy. Stuns Undead or Infernals for 2 turns.
Righteous Bulwark: 30 Mana, 4 turn cooldown. 35 All Resistance, 20 Darkness Resistance, and -60 Heal Resistance to party members for three turns.
Lance of the Law: 25 Mana, 7 turn cooldown. Two hits of 100% damage. Reduces enemy damage by 40% for four turns.
Purify: 35 Mana, 8 turn cooldown. Heals 20% of caster's Maximum Health, then heals 5% of caster's Maximum Health every turn for four turns.

Attack

Lay on Hands: 30 turn cooldown, carries across battles. Fully heal selected party member.
Blinding Light: 30 Mana, 7 turn cooldown. 50% damage, -40 Bonus to all enemies for three turns. Deals additional 200% damage to Undead or Infernals.
Inquisitive Aura: 7 turn cooldown. Recover damage dealt as Mana for three turns.
Eye of the Beholder: 20 Mana, 6 turn cooldown. 150% damage, -25 Light Resistance to target for five turns.
Turn Evil: 30 Mana, 8 turn cooldown. 200% damage and Stuns for three turns. Additionally deals 50% weapon damage every turn for five turns if targeted enemy is in the Eye of the Beholder.
Warcry of the Paladin: 45 Mana, 6 turn cooldown. +(charlevel * 2) Endurance to all party members for seven turns, then instantly restores 10% of caster's Maximum Health to party members.
Salvation: 50 Mana, 17 turn cooldown. Only accessible when below 20% Maximum Health. Recover half of Maximum Health, deal half the amount recovered to all enemies.

Edit: Made a few tweaks. A lot of tweaks, actually!



Kazuki_Kitsuki -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 17:38:57)

Considering that, according to Hansa's map in the tree fort, Amityvale and Moonridge are Rose towns now, I highly doubt we'll even need paladin since all the undead have probably been cleared out, whether by Artix or the Rose, we'll figure out later. Either way, Artix must be bored...



Shadows Morgenstern -> RE: =DF= DoomKnight Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 17:48:50)

I love for Paladin to get an update! The animations on the right side always felt so very cool to me. If the class art was changed to look more like Artix's...wow. Especially if we got a cape. That would be incredible! I still use Paladin every now and then just for how badass it is! But the armor atm looks....not like an armor. Here's to hoping a Paladin update!



shadow dragon666 -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 17:49:49)

Faerdin: Few changes maybe?
quote:

Scrutiny of Celeritas: 25 Mana, 3 turn cooldown. 75% damage and -30% Boost to all enemies for two turns.

Make it -30 boost and bonus? since it's already 75% damage comparable skills do a little more for about the same costs and shorter lengths. Still maintains a balance as well since only 2 turns.

quote:

Light's Judgment: 30 Mana, 3 turn cooldown. 100% damage against all opponents, extra 100% dealt if Scrutinized.

Love the concept of this attack, the only thing i'd change about it is 150% damage base, make it worth using without having to have the combo, gives the combo more worth, but also gives the move its self some value as well.

quote:

Asylum: 40 Mana, 5 turn cooldown. 150 M/P/M to all party members for two turns.
Cleansing Aura: 50 Mana, 9 turn cooldown. Purge all status effects from party members.

Kool idea for the whole party but 40 for a defend skill is abit much.
Same with aura, 50 MP for a skill that will be used rarely, still a kool idea.

Other than that, I'm seeing a little to heavily Defensive with not much offense, you're going to be running low on damage really fast, while defensive is good even DL has more damage output. Though again I do like some of the skills you have on there quite abit, they fit nicely.



Dwelling Dragonlord -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 17:52:35)

@Faerdin: 50% is a lot of extra damage, especially against undead mooks.

@Kazuki_Kitsuki: There's always Amethyst City and I doubt the Rose could succeed where the Dragonlord Order and Artix failed.



Talion -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 18:02:17)

quote:

Original from : Feardin

Scrutiny of Celeritas: 25 Mana, 3 turn cooldown. 75% damage and -30% Boost to all enemies for two turns.
Flames of Fealty: 30 Mana, 3 turn cooldown. 150% damage, 30% weapon damage each turn for five turns if Scrutinized to all enemies.
Light's Judgment: 30 Mana, 3 turn cooldown. 100% damage against all opponents, extra 100% dealt if Scrutinized.
Divine Bulwark: 25 Mana, 3 turn cooldown. 35 All to self for two turns.
Asylum: 40 Mana, 5 turn cooldown. 150 M/P/M to all party members for two turns.
Lance of the Law: 30 Mana, 3 turn cooldown. Two hits of 100% damage. Each hit attempts to Stun the target for 3 turns.
Cleansing Aura: 50 Mana, 9 turn cooldown. Purge all status effects from party members.

Attack

Exorcism: 30 Mana, 4 turn cooldown. 250% damage. Stuns Undead or Infernals for 2 turns.
Blinding Light: 30 Mana, 7 turn cooldown. -40 Bonus to all enemies for 4 turns.
Lay on Hands: 40 turn cooldown. Fully heal selected party member.
Crusader's Seal: 9 turn cooldown. Recover damage dealt as Mana for three turns.
Eye of the Beholder: 20 Mana, 5 turn cooldown. -25 Light Resistance to target for five turns.
Condemn Evil: 30 Mana, 5 turn cooldown. Deal 200% damage to target. 150% extra damage to Undead or Infernals.
Warcry of the Paladin: 20 Mana, 1 turn cooldown. +(maxlevel * 2) Endurance to all party members for five turns.
Divine Deliverance: 35 Mana, 13 turn cooldown. Only accessible when below 15% Maximum Health. Recover half of Maximum Health, deal half the amount recovered to all enemies.



Ok this is awesome. Seriously I truly hope AE sees this and take some note :-) And I'm not saying this just because I like you [;)]



Kazuki_Kitsuki -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 18:10:15)

@Dwelling Dragonlord: Admittedly, Artix is a one man paladin army and the Dragonlord order is powerful, but Artix is still just one person and the order...well, I can't say anything about them. Do remember that the Rose is a whole army and it is only growing each day. Give it time, and enough losses on our side, and they will crush every other army in Lore under their boots.



Shadows Morgenstern -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 18:14:55)

@Faerdin: Amazing. Simply amazing at coming up with skill ideas you are! I would LOVE for them to become new Pally skills! :D



salene -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 21:21:30)

faerdin, if i need help with an armor's skills/names i will call you. no joke. paladin does need a serious boost against undead and infernals



Mordred -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 21:53:15)

Well, again, I don't think Paladin should be a class like Dragonslayer where it excells against a certain enemy type or types and is at best mediocre with everything else. I'd much prefer a more well-rounded class that performs fairly well to great against all enemies and slightly better than great against a few. And that's what Paladin sorta is right now, in terms of its DA skills. The skills are pretty damaging on their own, but get slight bonuses against undead to crank out some more damage. Nothing extreme. And that's what the Paladin is. They don't train to slay undead. They train to fight evil, with their techniques having slightly more benefit against the undead because that's been the most recent and pressing form of evil.



Aura Knight -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/17/2013 22:05:45)

Paladin class is decent for DA owners, but horrible for non DA's since the only 2 useful skills are ones that heal and only one is a guaranteed heal. The only thing that needs to change is the 20% chance for the effects of each free skill to activate. If they all activate at 100%, then the class could be quite useful, but as it is now, it is just a class that has 8 or 9 auto attacks with a small chance to do something on those attacks. Kind of useless to players who don't have a dragon amulet.

Paladin class should be useful in fighting one kind of enemy, but that does not mean it should be weak against others. It should be like Dragonslayer Class in my opinion, not all skills work against non dragons, but most still do. Hopefully Paladin Class will be revamped, and if so, I'd like to see a new design for the armor, because now, it looks bad to me. Doesn't seem too heroic to me. And I'm sorry for criticizing who made the armor, but it'd be much better if it looked similar to the Deathknight class armor. [8|]



Midnightsoul -> RE: =DF= DoomKnight Discussion Thread (7/18/2013 0:43:11)

More reliable healing skills and a mana regen skill.
A little more flexibility on elements would be nice. I don't like using light constantly.
It's defense move needs a change.



Faerdin -> RE: =DF= DoomKnight Discussion Thread (7/18/2013 0:59:33)

I think specifically using Light could work for Paladin with some advantages in compensation, like Kathool Adept.

Made some edits to what I had in mind with feedback taken into consideration. Thanks for the support, you guys. :)

@DD: Maybe a little closer to 25% might be good, then. Either way, a noticeable advantage over Undead and Infernals would be fitting.
@Kazuki: You have to wonder if the Paladin Order sided with The Rose... After all, The Rose is awfully on the Lawful side of the moral compass, an aspect typically associated with Paladins. And The Rose specifically noted reanimation as a branch of magic they wanted to put a stop to.



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