RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread

RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Yuttt -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/21/2013 13:47:34)
I would like something like that, but a problem would still be enemies with something like 200 Light resist, which would make all the Right-Hand skills heal it, and be completely useless. I suppose you could work your way around it with Attack! and Left skills, but still... I wish it had an offensive skill not light-locked.

Raharu95 -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/21/2013 14:09:38)
Well I give give you guys that. It is true being Light Locked is more realistic to the Paladins. Honestly the Pyromancer should be locked to Fire as well XP Or at least be unable to use water X3 Though I don't think that every single one of their offensive skills should be locked to Light. I am aware the Light resistant enemies are rare in the game. But they still exist, and if somoen wanted to roleplay as a paladin, they would have problems. I think these two classes were just handled Poorly on that respect. I mean, Paladins should have someway in universe to deal with creatures of light as well as Pyroancers with creatures of Fire, otherwise that's an obvious weakness that someone could exploit. With Paladins, that was not deal with and thus the class has a large disadvantage against Light Elemental monsters. While Pyromancers went de unrealistic route and made all of their skills just deal the same damage as your weapon. While is not too far fetched to give other elements to a flame, when your flame can deal water damage, it gets kind of Silly XP At least the burn DOT skills effects still are fire locked though. I do kind of have an Idea on this. Since Paladins just use light to fight instead of controlling them like a Luminomancer does, a Light negate effect is appropriate for them, like Mordred said. But how about with Pyromacers, with stuff that are made of flames like elemental. Instead of a negate resistances effect, which know that I think about is a bit farfetched, how about they have an absorption Skill were the Absorb the essences of the elemental. Kind of like a drain spell so they are not really powerless against Fire elementals. With other kinds of monsters that are nor really elemental, eh, it just makes sense that it would be harder for them to take them down.

BraveSirRobin -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/21/2013 14:34:29)
Well,Paladin doesnt exactly have to use light because its a good class.As Ive covered before,elements can be used by everyone.Tomix used Evil.Vayle used Dark.Sek Duat the crazy lich used Light.And Light elementals still attack us.If they were 'good' then they could tell we are to.Or at least could detect any evil in us.The Light avatar is just as overconfidant as the rest.Its like using a magnifying glass to burn down a house.Yeah,they are using light,but that doesnt mean its good.Now sure,Tomix and Vayle were misled,but elements have no moral restrains.Now,the Paladin does prefer to use light,but he shouldnt have to.Anyway,I think the Paladin was good,even though I used it in the Zardbie invasion 2011,before I knew it was a bad idea,and before I found the forum,but I really like the animations,which show power and restraint at the same time.Ultimately it needs to be changed,as people have said,so it isnt just used against dark enemies.

Raharu95 -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/21/2013 14:45:04)
@Brave that is the point I have tried to get across X3 while Pyromacers are fire controllers and thus should their skills should be locked to fire when they are not, a Paladin necessarily does not have use Light if they don't want to. As some others said before, Paladins are no necessarily warriors of light. They are Defenders.

Faerdin -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/21/2013 16:01:38)
Dracelix is an example of a Paladin, if I remember correctly, who can use Elements aside from Light, though that may be due in part to his lineage. There is one problem with Paladin not being a primarily Light Element-locked Class despite this. It is likely that Dracelix is an oddity among Paladins. Every aspect of the Paladin- from their most famous abilities even to their name- is inspired and directly influenced by a history of religion that paint it as being heavily light-oriented. A strong example is the quintessential method of healing for the Paladin, "Lay on Hands." Yet another being the very name "Paladin" comes from the knights of the first Holy Roman Emperor. I am all for the Paladin being redefined, but light really does define it. I could not really imagine what the Paladin Class would be without it.

Dwelling Dragonlord -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/21/2013 16:16:55)
quote: ORIGINAL: Raharu I mean, Paladins should have someway in universe to deal with creatures of light as well as Pyroancers with creatures of Fire, otherwise that's an obvious weakness that someone could exploit. The Pyromancer has got the "Curse" skill which lowers fire resistance.

TimeKiller -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/21/2013 17:49:24)
I think they should make the armor look more like the guest artix armor

Raharu95 -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/21/2013 21:39:22)
@Dwelling Dragonlord "That Skill is not much of a consolation against Fire elemental XP but you are right, you got me there. Pyromancers do have a way to deal with creatures that are resistant to fire. Paladins, as of yet, cannot say the same for themselves X3 I apologize for forgetting that fact. I have a pyromancer myself so I don't really have an excuse >_~

salene -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (7/21/2013 22:03:45)
@raharu it is true that paladins are weaker against light, but that does not mean that its impossible. i myself enjoy the challenge, but to each his/her own, eh?

Paladin Warrior -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (9/2/2013 20:12:00)
Revisiting my old friend the Paladin and I'm surprised how much fun it is. That doesn't mean i wouldn't love to see a reimagined, more defensive, classic style paladin - but the current one is nice, though it could use some tweaking, higher chance for effects and such. In fact, there shouldn't really be a "chance" on any of these. (Give pacify a low cd or a higher cd+more effective turns)

Chaosweaver Amon -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (9/2/2013 20:26:46)
All I'm asking for in paladin, is to have that gorgeous default sword as a better weapon. xD Seriously though, I rather wish it would look more like Artix's armor, similar if not the same. I just LOVE his armor so much.

The Odor -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (9/3/2013 9:00:00)
Just want to mention that the stance Paladin takes when talking to twilly is awesome.

creator28 -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (9/4/2013 4:16:43)
I agree with all of you... But there is still one thing that needs to be done in the paladin armor in Book 3... "ITS TO POWER IT UP" like the power up done to the soul weaver armor _________________________________________________________________ Puppies! XD

CasshernX -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (2/14/2014 2:57:56)
Everything on the left of the Attack button needs to be reworked. [:'(]

Ratjuhn -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (2/14/2014 3:15:30)
Paladins, as such, should be able to combat everything that is evil, and not just be able to kill Darkness elementals.

Icestar_0 -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (2/14/2014 3:35:19)
I agree with Chaosweaver Amon about the sword, it'd be nice to see paladin with its own weapon design. Otherwise, I feel like the left side should be retooled by raising or eliminating the percent chance of the special effect. Perhaps major changes in Armor design/skill animation would be better in a class like Master Paladin to conserve the original for those who like it. :)

Edorath -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (2/14/2014 14:25:15)
Yea we need an upgraded paladin, maybe a... PALADIN LORD? Considering how much we've done for Lore, the Order making us a high ranked paladin would not be weird.

Lord Ferno -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/27/2014 21:01:32)
I do like the idea of a paladin lord..... however the currrent skills of the paladin should just be left to be reworked. The Paladin Lord should come in at least a year from now. Oh and statistically, most of the paladins defensive skills are rubish. It is just best to let the regular paladin get worked on. I mean only 20% chance for a blind? I'm not trying to be one of those guys that demand to hit harder but if those are the chances then the class lacks quite a bit of entertainment. But the idea of a Paladin Lord absolutely sounds feasible.

megacolonel95 -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/28/2014 12:32:45)
I almost like the idea of having a Doom Knight equivalent for Paladins. Like like the idea of Paladin/Necromancer , Light Knight (or Paladin Knight for those of you who hate humor)/Death Knight , and then Doom Knight/Destiny Knight. I think it'd be cool if it were like a final upgrade to the Doom Knight package as I wouldn't want to drop another $65 on it, but I would be willing to pay like $20 or buy a HeroMart item for it.

Shadows Morgenstern -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/28/2014 12:49:29)
@megacolonel95: YeeeaaaaNO to another ridiculously OP game-breaking class. Personally Paladin is one of my favorite classes, and always has been. The animations on the right are just so cool. If the spear animation is changed too much it will hurt my feels tho x_x Always made me feel as badass as Artix in the Artix vs the Undead animation. [:)]

Dante Redorigin -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/28/2014 13:42:46)
The class is viable, but it seriously needs to be reworked. Having all but one skill Light element locked is a bit overkill, in the manner that if all undead are the enemies of the Paladins, where do Light based undead like Sek Duat, as a Light Lich, fall? He'd shrug off the assault of the entire Paladin order. The damage needs to be brought up to par with the current game engine and level of enemy difficulty, at the very least. I know that the opposite of the Paladin is the Nercomancer for DF, but as it stands its even less powerful than its AQW counterpart, which is put on par with the AQW Doomknight. Not to under or overrate either of them in a different game, but there is a base line to be drawn here. The other aspect of it is the combos, which are supposed to be it's strength, fall flat mostly because using the Paladin on Dark or Undead enemies as it's intended to be used, the combos usually exceed the enemy HP and result in lots of unnecessary hits, and I've yet to see a Light weak boss to use them against properly.

The ErosionSeeker -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/28/2014 17:09:33)
The biggest issue that I (and probably most people) have about Paladin is that the class doesn't really give any bonuses to fighting undead, but it punishes you for not fighting undead. Heck, it punishes you for not fighting against dark enemies, too. We can see its issues from the skills: -overly specific -element locked -overly reliant on RNG -imbalance of skill distribution About a third of the class's skills are things like +20 to dark, 20% to do something, or cripple you for no reason. Good skills: Heal Ultima Combo Spear Toss Zeal Meh skills: Mana Regen Spinstrike Phoenix Channeling Spirit Redundant / obsolete skills: Protection of Darkness Blinding Light Weaken Pacify Bless Swords of Light The trait that all of the good skills share is "doing something significant". -Heal regens 20% of HP at a very affordable 35 mp / 3 cooldown -Ultima is a guaranteed 240% damage -Spear is minimum 200% damage -Zeal is minimum 225% damage So why are the meh skills meh? -% chance to recover random mana (I've seen it go from big numbers like 200 to pitiful rolls of 12) is not useful, and classes having both HP and MP regens are dangerous for design -There is no point for Spinstrike to be DA, and there is no reason to use it over other skills -Channeling Spirit devouring all MP is costly, but the 9 turn cooldown to everything makes it an incredibly gross skill to use. The bad skills just... don't do anything. 20% chance to do anything is pretty lame, but to do insignificant or even basic things that other classes have at a 1/5 chance? That's just cruel. It's no better to know that every single one of these skills are on the NDA side, and each one is almost painful to see. It's certainly not my place to say how the class should be, but since a lot of other people made their remarks on the other classes before revamps, here goes... I think the way that classes such as Paladin and DragonSlayer should work is by being playable against almost anything, but they give added bonuses to fighting against what they're supposed to be used against. -pure defensive skill: +140 MPM for 2 turns (like most other classes, maybe more to be in-theme with Paladin being a protector of the people) with +30 Darkness for 3 turns -an aggro/defense skill: Blinding Light can be used to refer to actual bonus to hit penalties, which means something like a -40 BTH with a bonus against undead, like an added -20 or something. The Spinstrike animation seems like it would be ideal for this. As for stunning, Pacify sadder than the tears of a clown. -an actual multi skill: One of the coolest things that I thought that AQW's Paladin Highlord had was Light Wave, an enormous crushing beam that hit everybody on the screen while dealing multiplicative damage and simultaneously reducing enemy damage. Obviously that can't be done in DF, but Swords of Eternal Light is like a gross version of SoulWeaver's Banishment, and it deals laughable amounts of damage. -skills in theme with Paladin lore Channeling Spirit, and the Light Spear, are pretty good examples of skills that remain in-theme with the skills of other Paladins. The actual effects of the 20% activation skills are okay, but they should be 100% activation on top of not being all stuck on one side.

Lord Ferno -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/28/2014 17:40:59)
Excellent elaboration on my thoughts erosion seeker! We all agree that the paladins current skill setup is poor compared to more modern classes, and to make the paladin class not forgotten and even able to stand out among superior classes Ash and Tomix have revamped it. Well all we have to do is wait a bit for the art on it to be finished.

salene -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/28/2014 17:47:40)
Paladin is in desperate need of an upgrade. Right now it can't compete with basic enemies in quests. I think if they boosted it's base stats, as well as revamping a few of its moves and giving it a new look, the class will be fun and useable again

Dracojan -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/28/2014 18:41:40)
the class revamp skill wise is done. so its a non debate whether paladin needs an upgrade or not. seeing how well necro and techno are, im pretty sure ash has made paladin a truly awesome class.

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