RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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NagisaXIkari -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 0:47:01)

If the revamp for Paladin does away with damn near all of its abilities being Light-locked that's be an improvement in and of itself.



kenip -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 1:04:16)

Paladin class and the lucien.

Is it compared ?[:D]



Mordred -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 1:10:44)

Light locked skills are fine. More than fine, even. I was really disappointed when Pyromancer had so few Fire-locked skills(does it even have any?). It really isn't a wizard of fire without it. Paladins are knights sworn to serve the Light, and with the animations, it makes sense for many of those skills to deal Light damage. So long as they get damage to compensate for being elementally-locked, they'll suffice. Most monsters don't even have a weakness these days. Enemies able to resist Light can be counted on two hands at most, really. The amount of enemies weak to Light, however, is rather high.



Lord Ferno -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 7:35:23)

quote:

If the revamp for Paladin does away with damn near all of its abilities being Light-locked that's be an improvement in and of itself.

You forgot that this is the paladin class. Respectively At least 1-2 skills should be light locked but the rest should be whatever element your weapon has.



NagisaXIkari -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 8:23:05)

Yes, hence why I didn't say Light-locked abilities entirely. Just that the majority of them being like that being done away with.

There's nothing inherently wrong with element-locked abilities. But when it's almost all encompassing there's a problem as ot detracts from the usefulness of the class. Especially when I doubt Paladin would get an ability that reduces Light resistance.



Blade5 -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 9:56:37)

Maybe it should have light locked dots (attack same as element but DoT is light) something like

Holy flame of judgment 35 mana 6 turn cooldown: Use a holy flame as a sacrifice to summon the heavens above to judge
your opponent of their sins. Does 130% damage to normal enemies and applies judgment, a delayed DoT that does 170%Light damage after 4 turns. If undead the actual attack does 150% damage and the delayed DoT does 200% Light damage.



Mordred -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 10:51:01)

Looking at the animations for the skills on the right locked to Light, it makes sense why they are locked. I see no reason to remove it from them.



Dracojan -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 11:25:55)

i dont want a paladin that doesnt do light dmg. pyro was pretty bad because its not ele locked. the feel of the class is very different without it.



kenip -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 12:20:22)

I LOVE UNDEAD BUT I WOULD MORE LOVING MY UNDEAD KILLING MACHINE....(AHAHAHAHA.....)

yeah, animation are good but with more power to NDA skill would be better...

i love everything except the design though im not hate it....

maybe the new paladin design would help
and dracelix would be our new trainer...



Chaosweaver Amon -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 13:16:06)

I think the light-locked skills are fine, personally. It balances out the class, and gives it a more paladin feel. If it wasn't element locked, it would be considerably more powerful, but it would also make the animations look weird in my opinion.

As for skill wise, I think the right side is OK the way it is; if you ask me, it's the left side that needs the work.



Hopeful Guy -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 13:25:06)

What I think Paladin could have that would suit both the people who like the fact that Light-locking is realistic, and those people who feel that it is only good at one thing, is non-element locked skills combined with a passive ability that gives the enemy (say) -5 to Light each turn, capping at -25. That would encourage use of Light weapons, while not making the class redundant against other opponents. Also, the 20% chance thing needs to go, it's generally awful and makes Paladin one of the worst non-DA classes.



Dracojan -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 14:15:27)

^im pretty sure Ash has changed most if not all the chance based skills.
the light resistance reduction is not as cool as a hot. one of the chance based skills reduces light resist so i think that paladin will have a light resist nerf in one of its skills again. if paladin gets proper defensive skills and with its 3 healing skills it would become a very strong defender.
but is paladin an offensive, defensive or hybrid class?



Deviance -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 14:49:27)

It should be a hybrid considering most of the tier 3 classes are one of the other. Tier 2, to my understanding, are the more balanced ones. And I like that idea Hopeful, a passive with -5 light. It may just make up for a fact of it not being light locked if that be the case.



Shadows Morgenstern -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 14:51:14)

@Hopeful: ...That's an incredible idea dude! I bet that would really keep everyone happy, because like you said, it doesn't keep it light locked, but does encourage the use of light weapons! Maybe if it was a tin bit stronger though, like up to -40%?



Mordred -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 15:02:55)

It should be Light-locked. Even encouraging the use of Light weapons doesn't fit the theme of the class. Their whole shtick is knights of Light. I don't want this to be a repeat of Pyromancer.



KoibatlupeSnowager -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 15:17:52)

A Paladin that doesn't have mostly light locked abilities basically is a stronger warrior reskin with a HOT.
I like my classes to be kind of unique, not reskinned clones.
That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a few non-light locked abilities..... like, two or three. Or four.
It should fit the bill of handling monsters with light weakness (especially undead) very well, and those without in an alright fashion. (Like what they were trying (and failed) to do with DragonSlayer.)
or at least, that's what I think.



Hopeful Guy -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 16:05:33)

Mordred: Is it though? I've always thought Paladins were supposed to be heroic knights upholding good, who were only loosely associated with light. Pyromancer is different in a way, since its base theme is 'fire magic to burn, sizzle, and roast your enemy', and that class would make a lot of sense if it had element locked skills. Paladins are all about chivalry and good, at least the way I see them. A paladin would unselfishly risk themselves to rid the world of evil, and in that respect, if Paladin has to have element-locked skills, Good would make more sense. That would be a bit pointless, since it doesn't specialise in anything, considering hardly anything is weak to Good. That's why I would like the passive skill over a fixed element-lock; against your normal mob you will always do Light damage, but you don't get killed if you meet an enemy (boss?) with 200 Light resistance.



Dracojan -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 17:52:25)

^ the idea of good dmg is actually good. but may be 1-2 skills should deal good dmg, and 3-4 light, and the rest as per weapon.
most monsters dont have 200resist nowadays.

lets look it this way. paladin are knights, but have specialized in fighting undead. the best way to fight undead is to convert all your dmg to light. the paladins have done so and thats why they are so very effective. but if they suddenly have to fight another paladin or a creature of light, they will be inefficient because they were literally not ready for that fight. a death knight will be more suited, unless ash makes dk have no darkness skills.



NagisaXIkari -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 18:37:27)

KoibatlupeSnowager:
quote:

A Paladin that doesn't have mostly light locked abilities basically is a stronger warrior reskin with a HOT.
I like my classes to be kind of unique, not reskinned clones.
That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a few non-light locked abilities..... like, two or three. Or four.
It should fit the bill of handling monsters with light weakness (especially undead) very well, and those without in an alright fashion. (Like what they were trying (and failed) to do with DragonSlayer.)
or at least, that's what I think.


Historically, paladins were high-ranking warriors, so....



Faerdin -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 18:51:20)

Actually, they were not mere warriors. :)

Paladins had a very prominent religious background that shaped the basis of their light/holy-based magic.

As I mentioned earlier, the popular "Lay on Hands" Paladin ability is just one example of this.



NagisaXIkari -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 19:08:03)

High ranking officials in different things, something to do with Charlemagne, and whatever Song of Roland is.



Dracojan -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 19:57:14)

the 12 royal knights of charlemagne are the paladins. they arent religious representatives. but in games they have become holy magic knights with light spells and healing magics.



Deviance -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 22:07:46)

I do agree that Paladin should turn out to be something other than a glorified warrior. A nice passive, light-lock, and what not could just do it. As it looks right now, I love it. Even the red gem will be CC, so this is definately going to be my go to glass if the skills are worth it.



Faerdin -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 22:13:28)

quote:

The paladins, sometimes known as the Twelve Peers, were the foremost warriors of Charlemagne's court, according to the literary cycle known as the Matter of France.[1] They first appear in the early chansons de geste such as The Song of Roland, where they represent Christian valor against the Saracen hordes.

Quoted from the Wikipedia article on the subject of Paladins.

If Paladins were merely chivalrous warriors, granting them powers from light (And gods in many interpretations) would be rather strange.



Deviance -> RE: =DF= Paladin Armor Discussion Thread (8/29/2014 22:50:08)

Then again, Paladins in DF are attatched to light as it is, like Artix and what not. I really don't know how else Paladins would be addressed other than just a Knight Class, which it shouldn't be. Light magic also makes them much cooler ;)



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