RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [Oversoul] >> Oversoul General Discussion



Message

megakyle777 -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 2:53:34)

That's understandable, but also from a marketing standpoint you want to sell as many SG as possible, which means people spending SG. Now, when you look at a lot of things, people are more likely to buy things the lower the price is, which is why people buy more things when they are on sale. I can't promise that people would buy more Card Packs at a lower price, but I can give you my thoughts on the matter, which is that as a consumer, I would spend 4 SG anyway on Card Packs if the card packs were 1 SG, because If I've brought a 160 SG pack I'm thinking "Hey that's a great deal for 5 cards."

Also, from looking at peoples thoughts on both in game and the fourm, I've noticed that a good amount of people are not buying SG's because most people who play the game DO have time to farm gold. I understand it's meant to be a shortcut rather then a power boost, but it's a shortcut that noone's taking.



The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 3:33:07)

I'm pretty sure there are incentives enough to buy SG's at this point, especially with this whole X-Boost fiasco... To advise that they make more blatant money grabs after that would just make players lose interest at a point.

quote:


I can't promise that people would buy more Card Packs at a lower price, but I can give you my thoughts on the matter, which is that as a consumer, I would spend 4 SG anyway on Card Packs if the card packs were 1 SG, because If I've brought a 160 SG pack I'm thinking "Hey that's a great deal for 5 cards."


You lost me here, can't make sense of that at all really. :S



megakyle777 -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 4:02:56)

I'm not saying that they should make money grabs. I'm saying I think they would get people using more SG on card packs if they lowered the price then they would at the current price.[;)]

But I should talk about other balance issues to do with cards as well as the SG card packs. I think Cat Reflex needs either slight buff to 400 damage for 2 turns, or (And this is just me thinking of new ideas for it here) maybe make the damage unblockable. if you can get a Unblockable 600 damage that increases the power of the card dramatically.



NDB -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 4:05:04)

Anyone here think surge should have an energy cost?



The Jop -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 4:09:01)

Nah, that's one of energy's redeeming features. Storm has a high cost and energy needs to boost its normal attacks with cards like surge and charged.



NDB -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 4:12:51)

^But they already have Energize and don't have any very high costing cards. Plus, it may cause problems with CC when people try using it for other elements. Oh, and another thing--don't you think that they should get rid of everyone's 4 Neutral Energy? I mean, those who have a 5 attack Neutral card from CC can easily equip it to a non-Neutral character and it's kind of cheap.



Therril Oreb -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 4:14:12)

I will have to interrupt you guys here for a moment. Discussing SG prices and the booster packs does not belong here.
In this balance discussion thread you discuss the balance in the game between different elements, cards and so on. Just like how the thread began.
If you wish to give feedback in regards to anything else it will have to be posted in the =OS= What would YOU like to see? III - READ THE FIRST POST thread for now.

And if you feel like a more specific thread should exist about something, feel free to post it in the =OS= New Topic Suggestions - READ THE FIRST POST thread.



Redingard -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 9:07:35)

Kill Corruption. Doesn't even feel like it belongs in the Neutral deck anyways. I mean, people complained about Poison doing 400 damage for 3 turns. Now people are fine with a card that does 400 damage for 4 turns and is even more energy efficient?

Also, Fire still seems a little too strong. Fireball and Meteorite are fine but Incinerate is still incredibly powerful, and Fire Whirl is a faster and only slightly more expensive Poison. If it was powerful before CC, why further its destruction with even more strong cards?



Fallen Crest -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 10:02:40)

@Above: Corruption is actually 500 per turn for 4 turns. Also, both poison and corruption have the same energy efficiency: 200%.



Kiazz -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 10:35:22)

@Redingard Besides, you aren't thinking about the sheer spam-ability shadow has with poison. While Corruption seems more efficient, chances are, you won't use more than 2 or 3 at any given time, while poison can be overlaid, renewed, and used again and again. Over time, shadow would beat corruption in terms of damage. It seems balanced enough already; high cost-high damage, even with the energy efficiency.



Mondez -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 11:29:31)

@Redingard
I disagree on killing Corruption because it needs a +2 on its energy cost for it to be a bit fair since moves like Meteorite, Deathflow, Retribution, and Powerflow all do 1500 damage. Corruption is a DoT move and majority of the damage can be blocked by shields over time.

Also do remember that Corruption was a follow up to reimburse those that bought Witchblade Boss and Vergil Boss though it seems it became attainable because people wanted it. You cannot spam Corruption easily as stated above like Poison.

Incinerate as explained should have been discard one card and cost 3 - 4 energy, but 2 energy can still factor in extra damage while 3 - 4 can limit fire though still dealing the damage as intended.

Surge should not have an energy cost since Energy relies on both Storm for damage and Energize for energy plus most of the energy characters available barely have any attacking power since their decks have way too many specials plus you can't guarantee to draw Surge in every draw even with CC. (I added extra shields to Necrosis and during my last battle with Jop I had some serious bad draws that didn't fork up a single shield.)



Hakunin -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 14:08:37)

quote:

Corruption is too powerful for its cost


Not sure if this is true when you put it in a DECK.

quote:

heals are not as energy efficient as shields


Uhm, first this is not true (block is 3/5, Greater Heal is 1/2, Renew is 1/2),
second: who cares? You have to check things in DECK, and the defensive + offensive cards' power TOGETHER.

quote:

when you're fighting enemies with over 5,000 health, 500 unblockable damage doesn't make much of a difference


Actually it DOES. Because against block-heavy enemies you don't cast a single 500 unblockable, but a load of it. And you don't use regular damage cards when you use piercing.

quote:

greater heals ... wait 2 turns


Blood and honor, the supposed 1 turn delay (written on the card even) would be welcomed for start!

quote:

I feel like refresh is still really underpowered because you have to use it with a shield.


True.

quote:

Fresh Start is also somewhat UP -I mean 2 cards, really?


Absolute true. 2 cards plus the Fresh Start itself means the Water Creature should spend 10+ charges from 2 cards, but the best they can do is spend 8 charges, and even that barely. The only card Fresh Start can work with is Power Flow, but you either weight down your deck with too many Power Flow to be able to use the combo, or you'll have too low chance finding the two together. And if you try to hold back cards, considering all the low cost of water-cards will mean you won't spend your charges, making Water a very weak element.

quote:

Life Drain needs it's energy cost lowered to 7 because it only makes sense


No, it doesn't. Life Drain got already balanced making its combo with Sacrifice to Fireball for Shadow. Shadow is already powerful enough, no need a buff.

quote:

Blood Rage needs either to health or energy cost lowered by 1


why?

quote:

I feel all piercing cards should all have their energy costs lowered by 1


Big no. That'd make them OP in face of regular damage cards. Pierce should always be a BACKUP option. Pay the price if the card does more than the others.

quote:

Frostbite should really be lowered to 4.


Or just turn all cards into a 1/2 efficiency? Come on, Frostbite does damage every turn, it is not a Shatter! And don't forget it needs to be weaker then Poison, because it is supported by a) heavy blocking b) freeze.

quote:

Incinerate is still overpowered even after the added energy cost and should have it's damage lowered to 500.


According to you. Now what I would like instead is some maths showing this whining to have any validity, because I strongly disagree. Same for your Meteorite complaints.
EDIT: I made some math at home, and even free cost Incinerate was not OP when compared to "best way scenario" with other element's characters, just a somewhat more trustable, because being direct damage. Any rise in cost will make Fire UNDERpowered.

quote:

Greater Heal is much too effective compared to Healing Spring and should either cost more or heal less.


You make false comparsion. Greater Heal is a Legendary Card, and isn't avaiable in CC. Healing Spring is a simple CC card.

quote:

But they already have Energize and don't have any very high costing cards.


Well, Energy currently have 2 cards that make ANYthing: surge and Storm. Energy suffers from "too many combo cards" feature and "too little attack cards" feature, making it a HORRIBLE element constantly getting stuck. Energize should be used by any card, Charged should get an efficiency-raise, and I can't notice how small amount of Energy characters exist, almost all being duplicate of each other, and the only semi-functionals are all SG-only. They also lack Legendary character - add more characters!

--------------

My own thoughts:
#1 All elements should have a handful of characters. Water and Energy lack the amount of characters compared to the others. Fire also needs more variety on their deck (eg. a character what can actually rely on pierce instead of normal damage, or one what can rely on DoT without CC - like Burning Mage was supposed to I assume - would be a start).
#2 Less clone-characters, ESPECIALLY less character which have the same deck as special offer / seasonal / rare characters.
#3 Legendaries to all elements. Free useful legendary for all elements (hint: not like Ogre Mage).
#4 When charging secondary elements the charging achieved should remain if changed to another element. Eg. if I charge light for 3 charges per turn, then switch to Shadow, then change back to Light, Light should still be on 3 charges per turn. Maybe even by hitting the main charge button, all secondary elements spent a turn on, should in all turn gain 1 charges too or something to make dual-element characters more avaiable and not rely exclusively on energisations and free cards.
#5 Free charges for Neutral characters too. All other element start with 4 free Neutral charges, thus Neutral shall be compensated for this.
#6 Characters for Chaos element. Chaos lacks all support!



The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 15:37:19)

quote:


No, it doesn't. Life Drain got already balanced making its combo with Sacrifice to Fireball for Shadow. Shadow is already powerful enough, no need a buff.


Lame!

Guess what else is a two-card Fireball for Shadow? Two 500 Attacks! What's more, they work with Empower, so they're actually better than said "combo". :|



Hakunin -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 15:46:46)

^
Life Drain in itself heals you, what can be key-element.

With all the DoT Shadow has it is perfectly reasonable to not get another buff on Lifedrain.

Not to mention you're not forced to rely on Life Drain + Sacrifice combo at all. Use them exclusively. Otherwise 2 more 500 dmg cards in a deck is not at all bad.


I'd also like to see how you touch the other elements compared to light/shadow, instead trying to overpower that two elements compared to anything.


I think the balance-question relates to Water and Energy compared to everything else, also Earth compared to all DoT-insanity.
Another question can be Neutral's Corruption + 2 Iron Hide + whatever decks, but instead of just empty jumps from belly, heavy numbers I want to see.



The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 15:53:02)

quote:


I'd also like to see how you touch the other elements compared to light/shadow, instead trying to overpower that two elements compared to anything.


I hope that's not directed at me.

All I've said about light in this thread: Greater Heal should be nerfed
All I've said about shadow in this thread: Poison should be nerfed and your combo is lame

Thanks for contributing to the nice general consensus we have going about Fresh Start though.



Mondez -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 15:58:59)

@Hakunin
Sorry to say Hakunin I kind of disagree with you on the matter of LD.

500 attack damage/4 energy + Heal 400/3 energy = 500 damage/400 heal/7 energy

LD has an extra energy output and of course one energy can change the tide of the battle. If LD costs 7 energy then the cost would be justified since it is basically a 500 damage card with a heal of course sacrificing it being combo'd with Empower.


@TFP
I don't agree on Greater Heal being nerfed because it does have that one turn delay plus I also disagree on the matter of nerfing poison since it is one of Shadow's main damage dealer to compete against all the elements because do remember that all of them have one way or another to combat poison.

Earth - Stone Wall, Petrify, Mountain Strike
Ice - Ice Wall, Freeze
Neutral - Iron Hide, Counter Attack, Corruption
Fire - Meteor, Incinerate, Fire Whirl, Fireball
Water - Healing Spring, Renew
Light(its own weakness) - Greater Heal, Blessed Strike, Retribution, Heal
Energy - Energize, Storm, Surge

Plus nerfing Greater Heal destroys any good qualities that Light would have to combat the other elements. Again this is why I'm against this thread because all I'm starting to see is unnecessary nerfs and buffs to cards that are balanced. Only a few key cards need changes not the whole entire genre of cards that were already balanced and we were fine with.



The Jop -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 16:07:06)

@Hak
Renew is 2/3, Heal is 3/4, Healing Spring is 5/8. The only heal that competes with the efficiency of shields is Greater Heal, which is why people are saying it should be weakened.



Mondez -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 16:10:25)

Maybe give Greater Heal a two turn delay since I notice it auto heals at the end of your turn. Would that make people happy with both the cost and execution? Plus it won't destroy the card too much since it is supposed to have energy saving costs and good healing giving Light a fighting chance.



The Jop -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 16:11:43)

That sounds fair. It's still on par if not better than other healing spells.



Hakunin -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 16:30:58)

quote:

All I've said about shadow in this thread: Poison should be nerfed and your combo is lame


Poison is perfectly fine.

It is not "my" combo, Life Drain + Sacrifice is the core element of certain characters.

quote:

LD has an extra energy output and of course one energy can change the tide of the battle. If LD costs 7 energy then the cost would be justified since it is basically a 500 damage card with a heal of course sacrificing it being combo'd with Empower.


Life Drain is a heal card for shadow. It is an emergency-card, not something you should compete with the main theme of shadow, what is DoT and 500 dmg cards.
Suggesting Empower taking effect on Life Drain is also disagreed, as that'd be similar to Incinerate working with Fireball.

quote:

Greater Heal being nerfed because it does have that one turn delay


It does NOT have any delay. Greater Heal heals the character right at the very end of the turn you cast it. It is bugged as heck.

On list of "combat poison":
Petrify has no effect on Poison.
Freeze at best delays the casting of Pioson. Taking the cost of Poison, it very likely just helps the shadow char to gain back its charges after casting poisons to cast more of it.
Counter Attack does not effect DoT.
You missed Burn from Fire.
Energize has no effect against poison. Even if you mean charge-efficiency it is currently no true, because energy characters can't spend their charges owing low cost cards and "only buffs in hand" problem.

quote:

Renew is 2/3, Heal is 3/4, Healing Spring is 5/8


You are right, healing is worse than block in any of these.



Grixus Faldor -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 18:15:52)

I'm going to step-in now whilst the discussion is still civil. Whilst everyone is entitled to their own opinions this is a discussion thread and not a debating thread. As such, you are reminded to keep any disagreements off the forum and take them elsewhere as they do not belong in this thread or in OSGD.



Jmagician -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 18:23:58)

I knew a thread like this was a bad idea lol. Balance issues should have just remained being part of "Beta Release" thread because of how regulated it is.

Anyways, I'ma go on and make an on topic post. I think the term "balance" in this game is taken too literally. CC in of itself is one big chaotic feature. The only restriction to it is that there are only 5 card slots. To circumvent this issue, there should be limitations such as specific card limits and character/card compatibility. I have noticed that some types have either become far more powerful in their specialties compared to other types or others just completely move out of their specializing due to the abuse of cards. Some people are even classifying CC'zed characters on a totally different rank, including me. Like how Yu-Gi-Oh has a Traditional competitive field (all out like our current CC) or an Advanced competitive field (regulated).

In any case, I don't want to hear the "this game is still young" reply or else I will give you the "this thread is too early". [8D]

@below: Strong points. +1



TheSage -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 20:11:18)

I would also like to mention Greater Heal is a LEGEND ONLY card meaning it is a little stronger then other cards of its kind. In time I'm sure there will be other Legend only cards that will be slightly stronger then other cards of the same type.

Shields are their own thing, i don't know why you are comparing shields to healing considering you can use BOTH already. Shields prevent damage, heals recover damage taken. Trying to compare the 2 is like apples to oranges, they just are not meant to be the same.



The Jop -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 20:56:16)

I'm saying they both work as extra health since you can't use unblockable attacks often enough in a duel to make a difference, usually.



TheSage -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (7/24/2013 21:09:26)

@The Jop : You can not recover health with shields, you can block damage with shields but never gain back lost damage with shields.

Healing and Shields are not the same thing and do not need to be the same. If they were to be the same, then would you also want Counter Attack and Iron Hide to be the same as Shields? They all prevent damage just like shields.



Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3 4 5   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition
0.109375