RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Mondez -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (8/8/2013 14:30:05)

Cat Reflex is fine since it synergizes with the other Neutral Cards and Bjeble Power Strike is fine for the cost because making it deal 900 for its cost makes it a tad overpowered.



BJEBLE -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (8/8/2013 14:34:03)

@Mondez when you compare Power Strike now to other cards like Holy Strike, 500 attack, Water Rapid, they all have a better energy:damage ratio. Maybe lower the cost to 6 so it's 6 charges for 8 damage?



Mondez -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (8/8/2013 14:40:26)

@BJEBLE
Yes and Neutral has Neutralize plus Neutral has to be kept in check since it has Iron Hide and CA.



Hakunin -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (8/8/2013 14:51:48)

I think Cat Reflex almost not does anything as a DoT.

All neutral cards cost a lot while doing a lot balanced by neutralize (so Power Strike is OK), but I think a DoT should be efficient-wise either way.

I'm ok with the damage Cat Reflex does, but I think it is overpriced for what it does. Just a little. So 1 charge less should be considered if you ask me, looked deep in the numbers what'd it cause (more balance or less).


--------

CA (counter attack) is currently way behind, the game preferring in its current state heavy DoT + block.



BJEBLE -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (8/10/2013 16:58:44)

Death Flow should be at least 17 damage, because the 1:1 ratio right now is ridiculous, and don't say that it is balanced by Neutralize and Iron Hide and CA, because Power Strike and Cat Reflex are already under-powered, and I think 3 is a little too many UP cards.



kreem -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (8/10/2013 17:08:42)

Sorry to use the old it is beta excuse but combo bonuses and other features will change the game a lot but I still think neutral characters are UP and a little buff to the cards being discussed will balance neutral characters



BJEBLE -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (8/10/2013 17:15:50)

What if combo bonuses won't effect(Or is it affect?Gah)Combo Cards, or they will, but they won't be enough to balance Death Flow, but they probably will.Thanks for answering, I didn't think about that.[;)]



kreem -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (8/10/2013 17:30:30)

Your welcome and have a great day.

I wonder what exactly those bonuses will do, how they work etc. Every release day it seems the game and what can happen changes a lot.

BTW affect is a verb and effect is a noun. So bonuses will not affect or bonuses will not have an effect on balance.




BJEBLE -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (8/10/2013 21:23:14)

Does Earthquake seem a little OP to any of you guys, I mean Fireball and Earthquake have the same rarity, but one does either 200 damage(non CC fireball) and 150 damage more(CC Fireball) and that's seems a little unbalanced. Just my thoughts.



The Jop -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (8/10/2013 21:57:40)

Yes, it's powerful, but also one of the things that makes Earth unique now. It's 300 damage less than Retribution which costs 12 energy, and it costs 8 energy, so it's not too overpowered.



Hakunin -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (8/11/2013 0:43:44)

quote:

TheSage (7/24/2013 22:23:58)

To you wanting all defensive cards to be the same....... [sarcasm]sure, and in the same process we can make all the attack cards the same[/sarcasm]



When Earth will have Incinerate + Burn + Fire Whirl along Earth Quake in the same deck, let's come up with this again.
Until then, TheSage is right.



The Jop -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (8/11/2013 1:07:04)

It's a balance discussion thread, you don't need to keep telling people to stop talking about balance because elements have different cards. What's the point of having a thread if we're constantly told characters are that way for a reason and we should stop talking about it? You might as well just put TheSage's message at the start of every thread so no one is allowed to talk about it and delete this thread. The only thing that came out of this was a benefit for people who buy SG card packs.



Hakunin -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (8/11/2013 3:06:47)

@The Jop

Please do not MISREPRESENT what I've posted.

I quoted what I quoted, because BJEBLE did not talked about balance, but compared two cards without any context.
Basically the same thing when comparing Ice Ball to Crush. You can't do it w/o context.




The Finnish Phoenix -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (8/11/2013 18:39:19)

Not that "any context" makes a difference. It's not like the scales of balance would be destroyed if EarthQuake were nerfed or FireBall were buffed to make them equal. Earth as an element would still have significantly more potential with the current decks and cards available than Fire.



Redingard -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (9/2/2013 12:04:37)

@Kiazz

Lemme put it into context for you: Poison, 1200 over 4 turns; 6 energy. 300 DPS; perfectly balanced.

Counter-Attack: Take 500 Instant damage and reflect it; 7 energy. Perfectly balanced.

Meteorite: 1500 damage for 12 energy; relatively balanced.

2100 damage: 4 525 attack cards, 16 energy. Perfectly balanced.

2100: Meteorite+Incinerate, 14 Energy. Not balanced.



Resk -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (9/2/2013 17:14:21)

Pierce.

The one card that most people can't agree on, some think it should be 1 mana, (which makes the 1 damage card irrelevant) some think it's just terrible ( I ), but here I offer a suggestion to discussion.

Piercing damage, should deal 1 regular damage, & 1 damage that only affects shield / reflect.

Thus it's still fairly terrible vs low shield foes, but is a 2/2 (as in, basic cost, for a basic card) vs foes with shield.

Ofc this would scale upwards, though may need the maths fixed, as ice needed becomes a 5/6 (terrible) vs non shield, or 10/6 (Fantastic) vs shield.

Thoughts?

-Resk



Mondez -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (9/2/2013 17:19:46)

I don't really know what you are trying to put out, Resk.

Reason why piercing cards cost 1 extra energy is because they can go through shields and counters. Now they've only added two damage types for pierce which is the 100 and 500 damage cards in which only have 1 cost extra from the regular cards. No one really sees the value in piercing cards which is a shame since Light, Energy, and Fire both can utilize the full power of piercing damage the best.

There should be no changes at all to piercing damage because stats in the future will affect how much damage all cards would deal and artifacts can change card damage in general so buffing pierce cards when they are balanced in the first place isn't needed.



Resk -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (9/2/2013 17:38:25)

@ Mondez,

Going through shields and counters is useless unless it kills the foe, as up until foe dies you have the choice of either:

A) Using only pierce, at higher mana ratio than -their attack cards-

B) Breaking the shield, which you could have used the mana of pierce to do more of to.

Having pierce in deck, is just a dead draw untill the last 1 - 5 hp based on what deck your using, as you -will have to break the shield regardless- as mentioned in B.

The only classes that can really get away with using pierce cards is Angel of Ver, due to it have the 2:1 ratio recovery cards to make up for the 10/10 pierce (1:1) ratio it used, to balance out the mana,

And even then, in most cases it would still be better off using the 7/5 ratio holy strikes...

-Resk



ND Mallet -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (9/2/2013 17:40:25)

@resk Counter has no limit to it so you can end up fighting someone who is able to stack a few thousand of them. Unless you want to try and burn through your shields and their counters, Pierce comes greatly in handy.



Resk -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (9/2/2013 17:43:25)

Counter is the same cost & same result (if you attack it) as as 5/3 shield + a 5/4 attack card. By attacking into it, your basically treating as if they had used those cards, so doesn't make much of a difference :3

Edit:

At 4500 hp, assume foe used 2000 counter that they spent 28 mana on.

Assume I am Ver. I can either spend 70 mana for 7000 pierce damage to kill them, OR i can spend 50 mana on holy strikes, and 10 mana (60 total) on greater heal, to kill them while taking the same amount of damage.

-Resk



Mondez -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (9/2/2013 17:51:43)

Thing is that I use Necrosis and his piercing attacks come in greatly although the price is HP. I defeated opponents with the combination of piercing and regular attacks. Don't think pierce cards are there just to kill the opponent, but to strategically go around the opponent's defenses.

That's why we have the extra cost is because they can go around defenses which people are greatly missing the point and I don't blame them because psychologically you want to deal damage as much as possible, but if you believe a card is useless like that and hinders the game then you are quick to judge the card without looking at its really purpose.

If they didn't get that extra cost then players would just spam their decks with piercing cards and would render defensive cards useless.



Resk -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (9/2/2013 17:58:56)

Shield can be considered to add to hp, any time you've used pierce, you've been dealing 1 hp damage instead of 2,

I'm saying they should have the extra cost, but should have something to make them being worth using for something other than killing the opponent, so that they aren't just penance / empower etc fodder till that point. If people want to spam them in their decks, sure;

but then they lose to people who don't shield,
which results in people taking them out,
which results in people using shield,
which results in people putting them in,
which results in people not using shield,
which results in people taking them out,
which results in people using shield,
which results in people putting them in,
which results in people not using shield,

Etc,

Which brings more variety to the meta

-Resk



Mondez -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (9/2/2013 18:18:34)

I get what you're saying. Maybe Nulgath has something planned because at the moment we have these piercing damage cards at the moment:

Blessed Strike - turns an attack to pierce damage plus increases damage of the card
Blood Rage - 500 damage for 3 energy, 400 health
500 damage cards - costs 5 energy

There's no doubt that Nulgath will make more cards that will have the piercing properties like some sort of DoT (too op in my opinion), but overall once stats come out along with ER would increase the value in pierce attacks plus chain combo will be released which would put more oomph in piercing.



Kiazz -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (9/2/2013 22:19:19)

@Redingard They say that imitation is the finest form of flattery, but you're using context, as a word, wrong. Dictionary: The circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed. Instead of using this, you are only repeating what you claim to be true without understanding what I have written in the previous thread.
Here is how context should be used, as you have not taken into account enough factors that should be applicable:

Poison, 1200 over 4 turns; 6 energy. 300 DPS PLUS SHADOW DECK=Void Reflection+Defend+Empower; balanced.

Corrupton, 2000 over 4 turns; 10 energy. 500 DPS PLUS NEUTRAL DECK=Iron Hide+Shield+Counter;balanced.

2100 damage: 4 525 attack cards, 16 energy PLUS FIRE DECK= . Balanced.

2100: Meteorite+Incinerate, 14 Energy. Same thing. 3 Cards,2 Cards less. Same damage, less cards; shouldn't matter, unlike energy-charging cards which give pretty much a free 20 energy after a free attack, thereby requiring card space. This is what I'm getting at, less cards, for damage, should not matter due to the same amount of energy being gained and lost.



Redingard -> RE: =OS= Balance Discussion Thread (9/3/2013 17:42:00)

@Kiazz

None of that matters. It doesn't matter what element it is; 2100 instant damage for 14 energy is OP. Even if it's 3 cards, it's the most powerful "card" in the game, since you can't even use 3 Holy Strikes in the same turn.

Also, I'd appreciate it if you weren't a jerk. I know what you said PERFECTLY. I also know that you're wrong. 14 energy for 2100 damage while you can still use, say, two Burns, is OP.



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