passives to actives (Full Version)

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ED Divine Darkness -> passives to actives (10/24/2013 21:02:52)

this is a well thought out idea, but i think it needs to be done now instead of after the war. not because of 'OP' ( not actually op) bm. it just appears that some classes are superior to others. some passives are better than others. blood lust is better than plasma armour. this needs quick fixing.



Ranloth -> RE: passives to actives (10/24/2013 21:06:21)

Players have flamed Devs for rushing balance changes in the past. If they mess it up now, who will take the blame - the players or the Devs? Everyone will blame the Devs for poor testing, yet it's the players who wanted it as soon as possible.

Just wait until tomorrow. There will be balance changes in tomorrow's update. Until then, there's no point suggesting because the fix may address some issues, at least temporarily.



wireclub1990 -> RE: passives to actives (10/24/2013 21:17:43)

I worry that this passive to active may make bh and mage the way to go debuffs will be the new thing without passives possibly giving the bh the upper hand as reroute and deadly aim are both useful the bh only really has BL not that I discount that's usefulness its far more useful then reroute however 1 useful passive vs 2 just my thoughts. Shadow arts isn't useless its just luck reliant and no one should rely on it where my opinion is based from.



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: passives to actives (10/24/2013 21:27:59)

quote:


Just wait until tomorrow. There will be balance changes in tomorrow's update. Until then, there's no point suggesting because the fix may address some issues, at least temporarily.



will there?



Ranloth -> RE: passives to actives (10/24/2013 21:31:09)

Yes. https://twitter.com/Titan_EpicDuel/status/393388992017596416



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: passives to actives (10/25/2013 7:11:29)

well, i would replace all the useless moves on a skil tree if i was a mod. like supercharge on bm, fireball on bm, static charge buff for cyber, shadow arts replaced with a move thats not luck based.



Ranloth -> RE: passives to actives (10/25/2013 7:13:24)

SA turning into active will remove the luck factor because it's only suitable for passives. Fireball is useful but there are better builds (read: overused) which don't require it. Super Charge will be replaced eventually by a new Ultimate, and Static Charge after the buff few months back is much more useful, seriously - it's just that CHs have quite poor synergy. >.>

Replacing is easy, you realise that, right? Balancing is another story.



ED Divine Darkness -> RE: passives to actives (10/25/2013 7:14:54)

i do realise that, but it is funny how many classes are forced into one build because of the useful moves and effective moves.

and what time is the uppdate?



Ranloth -> RE: passives to actives (10/25/2013 7:20:08)

I know. But some players want to win, and don't care about diversity. We cannot force them to be more creative, in the same way, they can't force us to abuse just like they are. That's why passives change will allow more builds to exist, without abusing certain passives with other skills (such as BMs with Str + DA + Bludgeon + BL).

Update will be as usual, probably in around 12 hours from now. It's just a guess.



beaststyles -> RE: passives to actives (10/29/2013 5:16:13)

In my opinion P to A is a bad idea. Its going to create even more unbalance and further increase the power of support and support/str abusers since they rely much less on passive defence for example, something a creative build relies more on.

Furthermore P to A will decrease the health of the game by decreasing diversity.

What do you guyz think?



Ranloth -> RE: passives to actives (10/29/2013 8:25:18)

You have no information on how it's even gonna work, so assuming something will already ruin the game is... not even needed.

What if "new" passives (read: active) will take no turns to activate, the effect will last for 3 turns and then it'll have 3 turn cooldown? Wouldn't that allow some strategies to arise, because you could active the skill and plan it out?
What if primary passives (BL, passive Armors, Reroute) will turn into character traits and scale with level, whilst all the other will be active?

No one knows how it'll work exactly, and assuming something without anything to back it up with (but an opinion), is not necessary.



beaststyles -> RE: passives to actives (10/29/2013 11:29:34)

@ Trans

The examples you have given seem quite ok.

But I am sorry if you misunderstood me. I was talking about the passives we have now being turned exactly the way they are into actives. If that were the case, say a support abuser merc would go first against a creative merc and own him because the 2nd merc doesnt have his passive defence on. And hence worson balance that already exists. Do you get what I am trying to say?

beast.



Pemberton -> RE: passives to actives (10/29/2013 23:44:26)

This is just a fake rumor. Who started this passive to active rumor?



Dual Thrusters -> RE: passives to actives (10/30/2013 0:09:39)

@Pemberton

the developers said it themselves, it is not a rumor.



Pemberton -> RE: passives to actives (10/30/2013 0:20:33)

The Devs say a lot of things and promise a lot of things. Most have been locked away on the "Soon to do list" for eternity...



Seteriel -> RE: passives to actives (10/31/2013 7:57:54)

quote:

In my opinion P to A is a bad idea. Its going to create even more unbalance and further increase the power of support and support/str abusers since they rely much less on passive defence for example, something a creative build relies more on.

Furthermore P to A will decrease the health of the game by decreasing diversity.

What do you guyz think?

I couldn't agree more.

More of my thoughts in can be found here.



ReinVI -> RE: passives to actives (11/1/2013 5:46:05)

taking passives out of a game is probably the biggest balance change I will always disagree on every game that involves even the slightest degree of character building IMO requires passive skills. A passive skill is like a bone in that it's the 'frame' of the class a tank has passive protection from damage where as mages have passives that help skill spamming and usage. This has been in almost every big rpg and little rpg ever even games like fallout/ skyrim which skills aren't really a portion of the game have passive skills that essentially make your build what it is.

Taking away the passives will be like taking the classes out of the game then you'll be left with a bunch of really bad classes that the line is so blurred between what there point is that you might as well just choose a class based on appearance since it's skills will be similar to any other class you choose. Plus a passive change takes away a counter to certain overused builds ( taking away passive armors indirectly buffs debuffs which right now are already insanely powerful thanks to still scaling with delta-esque debuffing points where as they need to scale with omega-stats which are lower and harder to raise to higher levels. Taking away bounty hunters passive life gain will hurt there hyper aggressive ( playstyle not oh-god-bounty-smash strength builds ) attitude which is what a hunter ( rogue ) is suppose to do and taking away a mages passive energy regain is just .. well now it's a mage with... a stick and a lack of energy to actually use the skills that make them a mage? plus what's a tactical merc without reroute? it's essentially a really... really... REALLY bad mercenary with horrible skill synergy due to losing the way they survived ( PA ) until they could use a high energy move like surgical ( seriously reroute is like the only reason people use that skill with all the energy drain going around ) so in a lot of ways this change in my honest opinion is a Chernobyl sized balance disaster just waiting to happen.

Then again I could be completely wrong and this is exactly what the game needs but I'm skeptical it will help at all and that it will harm the game instead of helping it.

Indirect nerfs and buffs seem to be the big balance things right now aren't they?
Cores = nerf in point of actually using skills ...
Energy drains = nerf in point of using skills like plasma cannon ( poor bm... great skill that's unusable thanks to this games horrid balance )

and now passives to actives come with there own list of nerfs and buffs

indirect nerfs -
Mercenaries ability to be anything resembling a tank.
Tact Mercs ability to tank and use any sort of high cost energy use move
CH's ability to be anything other than a really bad TM imposter
Tm's ability to be a mage.... ( sure they have assimilate but meh )
BM's ability to have a regain of any kind... no bloodlust = ... useless class?

Indirect buffs
any of the debuffs will see a huge increase of power
energy drains will be buffed ( funnily enough both can be pumped by the same stat on bounty hunters )
Strength will have less defenses to smash through to kill people
Strength will have a better chance of hitting people ( no SA )



edwardvulture -> RE: passives to actives (11/1/2013 12:41:25)

I don't think it would be reasonalbe to turn passives into actives, passive skills define a class more than active skills do. It all comes down to your build as to how much you benefit from them.



Predator9657 -> RE: passives to actives (11/1/2013 14:23:21)

I'm going to miss those passives :/



TheRandomGuyYouSee -> RE: passives to actives (11/1/2013 14:45:56)

I hope that there's ACTUALLY a balance update today.



Ranloth -> RE: passives to actives (11/1/2013 14:54:27)

There is. It's mentioned in the DNs.



TheRandomGuyYouSee -> RE: passives to actives (11/1/2013 19:41:09)

There's been things mentioned before and they haven't happened. I wouldn't exactly be surprised.



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