RE: Hatchling Rush (Full Version)

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kosmo -> RE: Hatchling Rush (11/30/2013 18:04:21)

^ while i dont agree whit the core lasting 2 turns, i agree whit it dealing 85% dmg, this would prevent this core from being too cheap in high dmg builds (including focus)



RageSoul -> RE: Hatchling Rush (11/30/2013 18:20:25)

Damage isn't really the issue there , the issue is the effect ; forces you to get your strat ruined instead of it being easy to deal with thanks to the current meta ( stall wars ).



santonik -> RE: Hatchling Rush (11/30/2013 19:41:40)

This time Hatchling Rush is extreme powerful. Basically imbosible to counter this to healing. Beacuse Hatchling Rush last 3 turns. 3 turns enemy can doing debuff and strong attacks too.
Defensive player is heavy problem. He need 1 (atleast) semigood shield/active shield and heal and maybe generator core.(max heal). Still Attacker player is advance. Wierd?

I give only few ideas.

Hatchling Rush

----What if that cant give rage?

----What if that doing 3 damage?

----What if this core cost more energy? maybe 20-25?

----What if this core last only 2 turns?



Ranloth -> RE: Hatchling Rush (11/30/2013 19:50:37)

Or just lower the effect to, say, 1/3 which is 33% and keep the current cost? Or you can make it exclusive to Heal and Generator and either keep the cost or lower it a little? Right now, it affects Mark of Blood and Frenzy, so yeah.



santonik -> RE: Hatchling Rush (11/30/2013 19:58:45)

quote:

33% and keep the current cost?

Maybe this helps defence players littlebit. Little bit better heal/s but not too much.



Ranloth -> RE: Hatchling Rush (11/30/2013 20:01:28)

50 HP Heal, with current 50% = 25 HP
50 HP Heal, with 33% = 33.5 (34) HP

Significant difference, and this includes Mark of Blood and Frenzy. There's a line between balance and nerfing into oblivion.



kosmo -> RE: Hatchling Rush (11/30/2013 20:06:27)

it includes supercharge and surgical helth regain aswell :/



Ranloth -> RE: Hatchling Rush (11/30/2013 20:10:50)

Ah, I forgot about those two as well. But yeah, it needs toning down but not too much - it can be avoided by not using these skills whilst active, thus the user has to time it too, and in the meantime, you may try to counter it by draining Energy.

33% still seems reasonable, especially since it affects 4 offensive skills and 2 defensive (Heal + Generator). For defensive builds using Heal, that 17% difference will make a great impact.



kosmo -> RE: Hatchling Rush (11/30/2013 20:31:00)

yes maybe too great, that thing costed me 48k..... :)
whatever balance before all, the only counter this core has is a high drain (some1 would say a premature heal but i wouldnt go far whit tht), so we could make the energy cost higher, like the azrael weps, in this way the core becomes more vulnerable to drains and cant get stucked whith many other skills due to the energy cost. i think 22-23 ep would be responsable for such a good core



Ranloth -> RE: Hatchling Rush (11/30/2013 20:42:04)

But would high Energy cost (20+) make it better or worse? Would you rather have 33% and affordable cost or 50% but difficult to use it due to its cost? Lower power and affordable cost would benefit everyone and still make it useful + it's blockable when it comes to damage.



kosmo -> RE: Hatchling Rush (11/30/2013 20:48:30)

ima be honest, i posted the energy cost change assuming it would be a minor nerf if compared to your suggestion, because inside i love the op effect the way it is [:D]



lionblades -> RE: Hatchling Rush (11/30/2013 22:39:10)

Honestly this core affects to many skills for to little energy. It affects 1. attacking hp regen (Frenzy, MoB) AND 2. defensive hp regen (Heal, generator) - all this for 14 energy. I do not mind the energy cost, but maybe tone down the % (like many others have said) or make it affect only 1 of the 2 possibilities stated above.



Pemberton -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/1/2013 5:33:07)

Blockable check
14 energy check
one time use check
3 turns duration check
Balanced check



RageSoul -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/1/2013 5:36:01)

^Except that when you got low and they strucked you with it , you're pretty screwed .



Jekyll -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/1/2013 5:43:44)

^Which is why it is a strategic core, no?

Anyway I am not buying the weapon until any changes are made. If all is fine, I might get it before the New Year.



RageSoul -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/1/2013 5:47:07)

@Jekyll
Currently , 50% is too much . Don't forget Rage control is also the factor seeing as it's better to go offense / all-in than anti-pressure defensive .



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/1/2013 14:38:57)

quote:

@ Exploding Penguin

I didn't say anything I couldn't have, its the truth & sometimes it hurts depending on peoples mentalities. Plus I only talked that way because he disrespect me first as you clearly missed 'RageSoul's' post before mine disrespecting my opinion/view rather than just give his verdict in a good polite manner. (To earn respect 1st person (RageSoul) has to show it to prevent disrespectful arguing from 2nd person (Me).


I'm not particularly picking on you or anything, it's just that your post stood out to me more. First off, Just cause someone else started something doesn't mean you have to follow suit. Also, you can keep the "truth" to yourself since you don't particularly need to say it to contribute to the conversation. Best to leave disrespectful people alone if they're trying to provoke or pick a fight with you.

Anyways, I hate to get off-topic.

I feel like reducing duration would be a good and bad thing. Good because often times it lasts way too long and really makes it unavoidable when used correctly. Bad because this makes it harder to use for less experienced players and can sometimes render the core useless.

I would say best is turn it into 85% strike damage instead of 100%, and reduce healing effects down to 25-30% instead of 50% which is way too high. 33% is still a tad bit high, so I'm thinking 30% because 25% may seem pretty weak of an effect.

Or as a new idea, how about you keep it as is but a field medic instantly clears it (still will halve the effect of that one field medic, though)?



kosmo -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/1/2013 15:05:31)

i like ur new idea, that would also prevent the poison+rush combo, since a heal would be a good solution in that case



Remorse -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/2/2013 9:42:54)

I'm tierd of needing to nerf broken stuff to the ground.


It's about time they learnt not to make it in the first place and if they do replace it.


And replaced is exactly what this core needs.


I'm sick of the constant aggressive build catering, they could do to change this core into a defensive one such as force the opponent to not be able to attack you the next turn (They can use anything that doesn't deal damage and if they can't they skip a turn)



Tri Phoenix -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/2/2013 11:15:22)

You know what guys i am sick of you guys saying that is op this is op and everything is op , when something new comes and u cant find a way to beat it isnt op man , u just need to see how to beat that core and stuff not just type this is op and that is op !!! nerf it please !!! why u think it is op ? in what way? if u want to make this game useless then say it. i dont see that core being op at all. If you think it is op then u should buy it and see if it works and when u see it doesnt work all the time u will realise that it isnt as strong as you think !!!


So i think that Hatchling Rush shouldnt be nerfed !!!



Ranloth -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/2/2013 11:21:17)

Can you state the reason why it shouldn't be nerfed? There are valid reasons being listed here for and against a nerf, and you don't give any reason or whatsoever as of to why it's fine.

It affects 2 Ultimates, 2 offensive skills, and 2 defensive skills (including core), which essentially affects every single class in one (or more) ways, such as Heal + Mark/Ultimate/Generator. 50% effect and low Energy cost, which makes it easy to apply and difficult to counter unless you have a very powerful Energy drain, that will drain ~all of their Energy.

You mention coming up with a counter. There isn't one apart from waiting until the effect fades away. Heal earlier? May work. Delay use of Ultimates/Frenzy/Mark of Blood? Not exactly possible for all.

Lastly, it seems that you've completely skimmed through the thread, and didn't bother reading our posts as of to why we believe it's overpowered, and you mention no reason why it's not overpowered. Balance isn't biased, so can you tell us why it's not overpowered? Take facts into consideration, and how it affects different classes, as well as cores.



romanu -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/2/2013 11:23:33)

not sure if op, but it's very good in 2vs2( I don't play the other modes much). If 2 players team up on 1 player and use it, then that player is kinda doomed, unless he can tank till it goes off( but then again other player can use the core again). 50% is high since it lasts 3 turns.



Pemberton -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/2/2013 11:30:52)

This is how EpicDuel goes, if you can't beat it, join it (class change) or ask for nerf nerf nerf and post a thread about it. Thinking of a strategy is too hard i guess...



Remorse -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/2/2013 12:06:26)

^ Thats exactly it,'

Strategy is too hard, the amount of bracken cores/robot and anti counters and similar classes skill means battles are all basically luck and circumstance.


You can be as strategic as you want but it only has a small impact compared to what it did in beta.


Sometimes things aren't necessarily OP but they can be broken.



The difference between broken and OP is broken is negatively impacting the game mechanics, were as OP is just something more powerful in comparison to it's effect.


Just like many other BROKEN cores and bot they release this core enforces effortless aggressive strategies worsening the battle mechanics requirement of strategy and thinking. But I dont think it is necessarily OP which is why it needs to be replaced not nerfed.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/2/2013 13:33:49)

quote:

Just like many other BROKEN cores and bot they release this core enforces effortless aggressive strategies worsening the battle mechanics requirement of strategy and thinking. But I dont think it is necessarily OP which is why it needs to be replaced not nerfed.


Smoke & Malfunction in nutshell.



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