RE: Hatchling Rush (Full Version)

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axell5 -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/15/2013 10:26:16)

you've got a point... but how will we make so the core works for people who want to take down tanks but not work as much as now for fast winners?



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/15/2013 11:06:09)

Make the healing negation lowered to 15% (so your medic heals for 85% of the descrption)

Now it is counterable with critical heal. If you don't have it, at least you still have close to the amount of your original.



axell5 -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/15/2013 11:15:30)

but then how will people stop tankers who heal over and over again(while you hit little damaga and you just made them to 10 HP then they heal) that would benefit only people who don't have it(since it would cost 14 energy AND the effect will drop from 50% to 15...)



lionblades -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/15/2013 11:23:03)

That makes the core useless. 15% is overkill. Just make generator, frenzy, MoB, etc unaffected. Still 50% for heal but all other heal gaining moves unaffected. That way there are several counters to this move.

And for those comparing this to Azraels Will it is different. It forces you to make a move, Hatching does not force you to do anything--its your choice to heal or not. That's why Azrael has a 20 energy cost, because once used it is uncounterable unlike Hatching.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/15/2013 14:41:35)

Here's something that everyone should probably consider, because there are some different interpretations and thoughts on balance.

-Sorry, but if you need a special stopgap for a specific single core or very small number of skills/cores/strategies, then it's definitely not balanced. If your "stopgap" or counter affects a wide spectrum of different cores and builds, then those cores are a step closer to being balanced. A balance element (which is a skill, core, build, strategy, etc...) should not need a specific counter to deal with it majority of the time; there should be multiple different counters, and those counters should be viable strategies for dealing with a large number of other balance elements.

-Just because everyone can use it doesn't mean that it isn't unbalanced. While balance is heavily based off of comparison, it shouldn't be made so that you're forced to use a certain, extremely restricted spectrum of different balance elements to gain a high win rate. The spectrum should be way more broad than it is now, IMO.

These are all my opinion, but I feel like there's some truth to it.



kaierti1 -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/15/2013 14:45:09)

lionblades,
i dont support this because this is only core! u saying that even good will be if generator add 25 heal but then automatically it means poison spores will be cured by generator too as field medic.



lionblades -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/15/2013 15:24:45)

quote:

it means poison spores will be cured by generator too as field medic.

Where did I say that? I said nothing about poison spores being cured by generator.



kaierti1 -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/15/2013 15:53:46)

lionblades,
i said. because if generator works on Hatchling rush it must be work on poison spores too.

im not support at all. this weapon and core are made for fight against TANK builds or example against tank tech mages! and cant be nerf this core. this is only one thing for win, what we can is this all



Ranloth -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/15/2013 15:57:35)

But Heal counters Poison completely, whilst there is no counter to Hatchling Rush - because its purpose is to WEAKEN healing effects, so when you use Heal-based skill, the core fulfills its purpose. It has NO counters, hence why people want it to have weaker power. Counter means its effect is nullified completely.



kaierti1 -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/15/2013 16:04:08)

Trans,
its almost same. look:
used poison spores and don'k work generator for cure
used Hatchling rush and dont work generator for 100% heal

or

used poison spores and working generator for cure
used Hatchling rush and working generator for 100% heal

and its normal. only 50%. if u have 50 heal u will heal only 25. only for 3 turns. there are no op core here. plus u can generator is 25 u will heal 12. it dont work on energy. u can again add energy with generator 25 or add 37 energy with energy backup. it works only on any type heal (mark of blood, generator and field medic)

it is perfect against tank builds and i like it. helps me for win. when i using this core tank tech mage cant get 25% lifesteal on supercharge plus generator not working if tm want heal. so its good all right



Ranloth -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/15/2013 16:10:11)

Yeah, you use the core when they are at 50% HP or less, and your heal is rendered useless. For three turns. By then, you will likely be dead since it'll be 4-7th turn (at most), thus able to rage and deal high damage. If you struggle against the tanks without the core, fix your build - instead of saying the core isn't overpowered because it helps you. Balance doesn't work like that. Think about OTHERS and not YOURSELF. Biased feedback is NOT considered by the Devs, at all.



kaierti1 -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/15/2013 16:22:19)

Trans,
"Think about OTHERS and not YOURSELF" i dont agree this. because now many players bought abyss weapons. in 2 vs 2 minimum 2 player has abyss item. if u like this go and buy why complaining? it helps u for win! and it is not op because dealing only 50% heal for 3 turns, plus it is blockable attack, plus need 14 energy to use it



Ranloth -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/15/2013 16:27:42)

Tough luck for you, only because players have bought it, it doesn't mean it can't be nerfed. Or the fact it's a promo - Rabble said it himself.

Taken from FSI:
quote:

►The suggestion is bias, only favoring a particular group or just themselves. We have to consider the entire EpicDuel community when implementing new features.

This also applies to balance suggestions. If you don't agree with it, Devs don't agree with you either - since it's a bias complaint, without backing it up with any data (apart from stating how it works), you say I should stop giving feedback and switch to being overpowered (exact opposite of balance), and your only counter-argument is people having bought it already - Azrael weapons say hi; damage nerfed on both weapons, soon after the release.

Just keep it in mind. Bias suggestions aren't considered at all. If you consider balance to be benefiting yourself, then that's not balance and your feedback won't be considered - for the pure fact it's straight up bias.



Altador987 -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/15/2013 17:52:14)

but isn't the point to make it so you can do so, i mean the opponent still has to be able to kill you in that time, and if you take a more offensive approach that could also make the opponent defensive right



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/15/2013 18:10:11)

quote:

but isn't the point to make it so you can do so, i mean the opponent still has to be able to kill you in that time, and if you take a more offensive approach that could also make the opponent defensive right


It's very easy for even unstrategic people to leave you in that position. Static Smashes, Atom smashes, Static grenades, etc... all happen quite often now. Even if it isn't intentional, someone will do this that gets you stuck in a position where all your offensive tools are very weak attacks.



Altador987 -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/15/2013 19:52:17)

i know but i think that's an issue on balance and not the core itself, think of it in a perfect world scenario... would the core be considered op then?



Predator9657 -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/15/2013 21:13:49)

^ Sorry to say but the world isn't perfect :p
It's much easier/simpler/logical to balance the core than to balance every single other thing.
I can see where you're coming from; the thinking behind the core is reasonable, it's just that for a duration of 3 turns, a 50% reduction to life-gain is a bit too much for a mere 14 EP with the equivalent of a strike (albeit forfeiting lucky strike/primary mastery bonus).



DarkDevil -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/16/2013 0:19:43)

quote:

because now many players bought abyss weapons. in 2 vs 2 minimum 2 player has abyss item.

actually this means whoever use it must be banned for cheating but because this is mods falt this won't happen.
whoever bought it to abuse it will be his own falt getting balanced because he had bad reasons buying it.
in your own words you are admiting it to be OP , also you are mixing up between balanced and removed.
it won't get removed , just balanced to be equivalent to other cores.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/16/2013 0:45:38)

Imagine if all the bots specials did damage equal to that of your strength damage and that's how I see Hatchling.



Remorse -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/16/2013 0:46:48)

I Have an idea,


What if hatch-ling rush extends field medics cool down by 3 turns rather then reducing the heal by 50%

BUT! It can only be used once feild medic is already in cool down, in other words once the opponent has used it you can extend the cool down by 3, this will provide a counter to heal loopers whilst not harming people who like to play defensive.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/16/2013 0:50:26)

@kai

This core is just devastating if you are a Offensive build that uses a high field medic.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/16/2013 1:13:18)

^ This makes defending against kamikaze players (which I am one myself) very difficult to defend against. This is one of those skills where your character will be gimped if you don't have this core which is why I hate it. Don't force me to buy a skill if I want to win.



kaierti1 -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/16/2013 5:11:45)

i won now with 33 partner 2 v 2. 36 and 33 vs 36 and 36. by this core. they healed 2 times 21 and 21 but we killed one and then won. it helps really. dont need nerf. u must proud that this weapon possible buyable with credits. and i hope next friday weapons will be able to buy with credits too



DarkDevil -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/16/2013 5:18:33)

quote:

i won now with 33 partner 2 v 2. 36 and 33 vs 36 and 36. by this core.
it helps really. dont need nerf.

you have just given enough reason to nerf it. LOL .



Mother1 -> RE: Hatchling Rush (12/16/2013 5:27:29)

@ Darkdevil

So because this core actually helped a level disadvantaged team win it needs a nerf? Good reasoning there.



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