RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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GearzHeadz -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (3/25/2014 15:07:57)

Plasma grenade. That skills is grossly underpowered, comparing it to its meant to be physical counterpart, stun grenade. It deals 10 more damage for 30 more energy. What?! That's crazy. My solution for this would be to put it on the same energy cost as stun grenade and give stun grenade the same damage as plasma grenade.



veneeria -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (3/25/2014 17:10:26)

Most remarkably, cyberhunters lack synergy on abilities which kind of limits the builds to one particular build.

Of course it is not only synergy, the way the skill three is structured to how useful are some abilities.

Shadow arts comes to mind most of the time, though. (in usefulness, it is an third shield for an class with already 2 shields. Casting another shield above another usually is a waste.)



edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (3/26/2014 1:05:25)

How I'd modify static charge.
50% strike damage. Damage could be blocked but not effect.
Effect scaled on support,tech, and energy. For example, one investment in one of those respective stats will give you a +1 in energy.
Each level will give you 15 more energy. Doesn't scale on level.



Archlord Raistlin -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (3/30/2014 12:23:20)

CH has very little to offer in build variety. Players have contributed to ruining multi years ago,
1 out of 100 players actually use a multi build, 2v2 multi against 2 players continues to be the
most inefficient use of mana in the game, yet I still see the "multi defenders" trying to save face
and keeping the game limited. Don't you think that a viable 2v2 multi skill would breathe some
life into this game again and give CH at least one other option besides a strength build?

Here's a thought..let's try to fix it. Remove multi as a usable option for 1v1. Why would you
use multi in a 1v1 match anyway... Then make multi usable in 2v2 by either severely reducing
the mana cost or increasing the damage against 2 players, i.e. make it an efficient use of the
majority of your mana, not a waste, etc... CH does not have endless energy options like some
classes and we have to be alot more careful with how it's going to be used.

Or...keep defending the reason multi builds have become extinct and do nothing.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (3/30/2014 12:59:55)

@ Archlord raistlin

actually at lower levels I see players using multi in 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2. Doing so will destroy variety for lower levels in 1 vs 1.



edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (3/30/2014 15:17:56)

Multi is ironically, more useful in one v one.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (3/30/2014 15:22:25)

Multi skills should get a boost, as a "test". Clearly 100% damage was too much, and 85% is just terrible. Without increasing any EP costs, they could try buffing them up to 90% and see how it works in 2v2. Maybe this could make them a bit more useful, instead of being outright terrible - unless you're a Support Merc.



GearzHeadz -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (3/30/2014 18:32:47)

Yeah paying more for less is a bit bad... Trans suggestion is interesting. If the damage is going to be lowered I don't see why an increased cost would be necessary. Just giving it the same cost as in 1v1 but less damage would probably work. I have a build that uses a level 7 multi... But not for 2v2. Its a move I use for damage only in 1v1. Being able to use a multi skill in 2v2 again would be fun.



Archlord Raistlin -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (3/30/2014 21:26:53)

Does it even make sense to point out that multi, arguably the only 2v2 battle skill, should
be left alone because it would destroy variety for low level 1v1 players?

This is sad, or we have lost our minds...



GearzHeadz -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (4/13/2014 11:48:05)

Every other class has a secondary health regeneration skill in some form... I think CH should too. But what skill? The most viable option that I see would be static charge. But how? Perhaps make it so you gain half as much health as you do energy (At max that would be 35% damage to health, 70% to energy), but for that amount the skill would need to be block able again. Or perhaps giving 1/4 health as much energy regained from static charge (At max that would be 17.5% damage to health, 70% to energy), but staying unblock able?

Or perhaps massacre, giving it a fixed 30% lifesteal like the other two specials, but this would also have to be implemented to BHs as well.

Idk. Just some thoughts.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (4/13/2014 11:55:43)

BHs and BMs have it as a "primary active" (from old passives). TLMs have it as a secondary effect on a Strike-like skill. TMs (and BMs) have it on their Ultimate, as well as TLMs and Mercs.

Ideally, it'd fit CHs to get it as a secondary effect on one of the skills. It'd be two classes per each effect, and Ultimate could be doing something with Energy - such as siphoning it based on the damage dealt? Who knows. Just throwing the concept around. Ideally? Alter Venom Strike, and make it CH exclusive - still a DoT, minimally weaker than it is now (by -10 or -20 DpT), but % of the DoT is returned to you as HP.

There are plenty of possibilities. These secondary, or even tertiary, effects need to be implemented more. They come at a cost (lesser power), but they bring in some fancy effects and a little bit of variety. If we want to sway away from the simple gameplay, but still keep it somewhat easy to play (and kinda strategical), we need more creativity in skills.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (4/13/2014 15:44:14)

Poison is already a very decent skill for Cyber Hunters. I don't think we should add any more power on it, even with a nerf of -20 damage.

How about we give an HP return on a lesser move such as cheap shot? It could be a flat 30% return on all levels. Higher levels would indirectly give more HP due to ignoring more defenses.



GearzHeadz -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (4/13/2014 15:47:18)

Then it would probably have to be given to BH as well. And cheap shot already has a crit chance.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (4/13/2014 15:59:31)

No, it wouldn't have to be given to BHs. The aim is to make classes unique, and skills can be minimally adjusted and renamed - see Field Commander and Blood Commander. Likewise with CheapShot + new CheapShot for CHs.



edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (4/13/2014 22:50:10)

Give them Static Kicks, cheap shot with energy regen...



Dual Thrusters -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (4/13/2014 23:21:42)

What, so Cheap Shot becomes absolutely free and has Static Charge's effect? No thank you.



edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (4/14/2014 22:22:23)

Idk the exact mechanics or am I going to take the effort to make it in depth, but a cheap shot animation that steals energy (and possibly get some back) just looks cool in my head.



GearzHeadz -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (4/18/2014 16:13:34)

Plasma grenade needs to be fixed... This has been ignored for far too long... 2-3 years? An inferior replica of stun grenade. It deals 10 more damage for 30 more energy... It is sad. It NEEDS to be fixed. I recommend fixing it by simply lowering its energy cost by 30 and increasing stun grenade's damage by 10.



santonik -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (4/24/2014 14:23:12)

(super strong) EMP spamming



4 turn and 2 times can be make super strong emp. 1 EMP took over 500 energy.

Is this too strong. Myself i think this way. It cost 190 (max lvl) cost is fine but maybe lower scaling need this.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






Striker44 -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (4/25/2014 2:57:24)

^
Recently EMP has been nerfed ,so no more nerfs needed



GearzHeadz -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (5/10/2014 15:25:46)

This skill has potential to be useful, but its energy cost, low %, short duration, and support requirement makes it not worth it. I suggest increasing its % to 30% for 4 turns and dropping its support requirement.

OR

Replace the skill with a move that deals an increasing % of damage of the opposite damage type of your base weapon. It would scale the same as bludgeon, but still have the support and energy requirements as shadow arts. No weapon requirement. Blockable. (Example: If your weapon deals physical damage, then this skill will deal energy damage, if your weapon deals energy damage, this skill will deal physical damage)

Skill Level
Level 1: 23% More Damage of opposite damage type
Level 2: 26% More Damage of opposite damage type
Level 3: 29% More Damage of opposite damage type
Level 4: 32% More Damage of opposite damage type
Level 5: 35% More Damage of opposite damage type
Level 6: 38% More Damage of opposite damage type
Level 7: 41% More Damage of opposite damage type
Level 8: 44% More Damage of opposite damage type
Level 9: 47% More Damage of opposite damage type
Level 10: 50% More Damage of opposite damage type

110 Energy (+20 per skill level increase)
Level 1: 110 Energy
Level 2: 130 Energy
Level 3: 150 Energy
Level 4: 170 Energy
Level 5: 190 Energy
Level 6: 210 Energy
Level 7: 230 Energy
Level 8: 250 Energy
Level 9: 270 Energy
Level 10: 290 Energy

24 Support (+2 per skill level increase)
Level 1: 24 Support
Level 2: 26 Support
Level 3: 28 Support
Level 4: 30 Support
Level 5: 32 Support
Level 6: 34 Support
Level 7: 36 Support
Level 8: 38 Support
Level 9: 40 Support
Level 10: 42 Support

Cool down: 2 turns



Dual Thrusters -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (5/21/2014 19:24:24)

To make Cyber more like a Hunter class, it deserves more moves that focus on messing with the opponent. Also I'm suggesting a new wave of skills that are less linear than our current ones ( E Parasite on BM was a good start, just that it was a little UP).

Name: Blasted Systems
Cost: 150 +20 per skill level
Stat Req: 27 Support +2 per skill level
Weapon Req: Auxiliary
Effect: Attack With your Auxiliary, blasting your opponents' equipment and reducing the effectiveness of their current buffs.
Level X: -10% effectiveness with -2.5% each level.

Name: Lag
Cost: 250 All Around
Stat Req: None
Weapon Req: None
Effect: Based on the amount of skill points invested, it adds an extra 2 cooldown turns to an opponents skill who has an equal amount of skill points. If the opponent has 2 skills with equal points, then one is randomly selected. If no skills are present with equal points, then it rounds to the closest.






GearzHeadz -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (5/23/2014 0:38:38)

For real though, fix plasma grenade. This is just super frustrating, very underpowered for no reason whatsoever for so long.



GearzHeadz -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (5/25/2014 21:40:12)

Massacre should have a 320+30 energy cost like the other 2 super moves... It has a 330+30 energy cost.



santonik -> RE: =ED= Official Cyber Hunter Balance Discussion Thread (5/26/2014 7:09:01)

Cyber hunter hit ratio is amazing. (extreme dangerous most in time 1vs1)

minimum dex and you can still get many guaranteed hits.


HP about 1500
energy about 1000

str semi high/high
dex minimum or weak
tech minimum or weak
support about 45-75




---Venom Strike (100% hit ratio ???)
---Static Charge (100% hit ratio ???)
---Gun/aux (deflect take only 50% damage out)
---Massacre (100% hit ratio ???)
---gun/aux or Venom Strike (deflect take only 50% damage out)

Match end here usually.


I see this only 1 big major broblem. 100% hit ratio hits. This affect block/deflects. How this affects. opponent cant block/deflect those blow at all. 100% hit ratio is very dangerously. That make (almous) every cyberhunter extreme damagers whit minimum defence. why? Because cyber hunters can hit guaranteed damage. cyber hunter will be able to circumvent game mechanics. (block mostly). This is unfortunate because (tank_players) in need of blocks / deflectios. Now, the main thing is to hit accuracy. Skill and cores will help a lot of 100% blows. High damage to the players currently a lot of benefit from it. (mostly str) High Damage players will also benefit more than others in these matters. Rage, Energy intake. High amount of HP. This is better than a pure defense / resistance. Let's just say that I see the wrong type of beneficiaries of this character class. (CYBER HUNTER)
it would be nice to see what impact would damage STR based. But the special ability could be even support-based. no longer STR (damage) and STR benefits only. Good example is Static Charge.

Even one weak / poor design cause trouble in balance. These can be difficult to repair in the second hand. especially if you have two different classes the same blow. (Malf)
the second will always unintended advantages / disadvantages at all times.




The purpose is not to destroy this class. I'm looking for ways to find balance.




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