RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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xzkamityx -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (6/29/2014 14:52:46)

quote:

mercs static smash and bhs static granade still made both classes virtualy unbeatable for str bms. imo the energy parasite should be enabled for 18 suport builds


I thought this was a good thing because there was finally a class that didn't spam strength. To me that seems likes its a more balanced class



dfo99 -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (6/30/2014 7:04:50)

but the energy parasite is for focus 5 build, intimidate usually can't stop the smoke, hybrid armor and other shields made the mark of blood useless, basicly all classes can, use a type of shield, drain the mana, and gg for bms.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (6/30/2014 11:31:04)

@ xzkamityx

actually it is a good thing since all builds need limitations That suggestion would just turn all BM's into strength spammers since most strength BM's don't bother to use support due to how badly it has been nerfed.




Rui. -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (6/30/2014 13:47:54)

anyone who says blood mage is weak is clearly a novice at this game. Intimidate isnt a counter to smoke.. Reflex boost is the counter for it... Blood mage is the only class that can destroy any class. smoke cant botther is cause with reflex they will still attack you without the fear of blocks. With intimidate and yeti special they can literally screw you for 3 turns.. You will have to helplessly heal cause they will attack you everyturn.. If you sheild ur giving them rage at am insane rate.. Lvl 1 bludgeon does 450 damage on rage.. Lvl 1 cannon does 400 on rage and parasite now is a regular attackc so they will constantly drain ur energy throught the game.. They dont even need to heal parasite with mark of blood will guarentee them a 65 heal every hit.. Blood mage rank 40 can chew thru any class out there.. I was a blood mage in delta.. I was unchallenged and ppl who fought me know it.. I pwned as strength when fireball was in power.. I pwned as 5 focus for 2 years and now with parasire there is no stopping to them... This is one class comparable with hulk. If you are a blood mage and ur loosing then just just a hero or a warlord with little or no experience at this game. This is the best class and only class that can shread you to bits wih 5 focus or strength.. Bounty being next best and only viable class with 5 focus.



dfo99 -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (6/30/2014 14:16:05)

quote:

Intimidate isnt a counter to smoke


if you is bm and use high hp/str and fight against high hp/str bh is hard to beliave but intimidate is unique counter to smoke. if you use a reflex boost u will lose for lower ranks bhs almost everytime



xzkamityx -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (6/30/2014 20:29:34)

quote:

actually it is a good thing since all builds need limitations That suggestion would just turn all BM's into strength spammers since most strength BM's don't bother to use support due to how badly it has been nerfed.


ik that's why I agree with having parasite require support,



noremako -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (6/30/2014 23:53:05)

Everyone is complaining about Energy Parasite's energy sapping output, and its Support requirement. These are the two things that need changing balance wise.

However, Blood Mage was always intended to be a direct, burst DPS class that would win fast or die fast. Instead of encouraging this kind of energy duel where person with higher strike damage and energy manipulation wins, try to make Blood Mage a class where all his skills are going to be dealing damage, and the sap is almost a bonus.

As in, Energy Parasite first off, although I'm fine with a Support requirement, 42 is simply ridiculous. No one wants to waste that many points just for a pretty bad skill that can help drain usually less then 200 energy over the course of 3 rounds. It should begin at 15, end at 33 at the maximum. Even thats a bit of a stretch, but hey, most skills have something like this that works against being maxed.

Energy Parasite should also deal more damage. How about it deals 100% primary damage initially, and Energy Parasite drains MP proportionate to the amount of HP the opponent has left? For example, on an 800 HP opponent you smack them down to 600 with Energy Parasite, you will drain 90 MP (not HP) and heal 135 initially. This can both counter High HP builds and also act as a balancing mechanism to itself. The faster you want to finish off your opponent the worse your drain will be. By draining high amounts you have to allow the enemy to retain their HP. 15% is actually pretty OP so I'd take it down to 10% and you do not get 1.5x return. Thus on a 600 HP opponent you initially drain 60 MP.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (7/1/2014 0:01:40)

@ noremako

As it is now energy parasite is unblockable, and is even more power in effect than assimilation. give it 100% damage and it will be nothing more than just a filler move to spam. It's purpose is to t

(1) drain energy and return it to you
(2) a tactical way force your opponent to play out of their style.



dfo99 -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (7/1/2014 8:39:10)

quote:

(1) drain energy and return it to you
(2) a tactical way force your opponent to play out of their style.


many others mana skills do it, 100% of damage will made it op, but suport req for any mana skill is non sense.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (7/1/2014 9:03:56)

@ Dfo99

Assimiation is the only mana drainer that does damage and that one does 85%. The others do no damage.

The support requirement was put there so it wouldn't be abused by strength builds that is the point of it. Remove that and every strength build will use it. The only other thing keeping them from using it originally was the low damage it did which strength builds don't want since they need consistant damage output.

However now with 85% is would be better than assimilation if they removed the support requirement since you would not only get energy back but you would be forcing your opponent to burn their energy to prevent this something they may not want to do.

Plus as I pointed out it is unblockable so doing 100% damage would just make this a free unblockable hit that they would use to fill in a hole whenever needed.

If they have rage but have been smoked they would use this move to grantee full damage even against dex builds. The only counter to this move would be not have any energy so you can't use the move.



dfo99 -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (7/1/2014 9:10:44)

this facts not is enough to set a suport req because them not is like a universe law, the damage can be turned to blocable or non useable to rage, and spent fast the mana is objetive of all match when the oponent have any mana drainer.



xzkamityx -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (7/1/2014 9:24:36)

there is a lot more of a reason to keep it support right now than there is to have it require strength though. If it is blockable then then that hurts the focus builds a lot as it is their only non blockable skill, if it required strength or no stat requirement even if it isn't blockable it would be abused by strength builds. If they did do that they would have to buff the bounty hunters energy gain which would make balance worse right now than it already is.



dfo99 -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (7/1/2014 10:06:47)

str abuse not is a argument.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (7/1/2014 10:14:56)

@ d6o99

Why do skills have stat requirements if they do? Answer to prevent abuse. Why do you think Plasma bolt which for a long time didn't have a strength requirement later got one? Because people were going high tech at the time getting massive damage out of the skill. So this requirement was placed their to prevent this from happening again.

The same thing can be said here. The support requirement was put there to prevent abuse. I can tell the moment they remove this requirement all those 18 support high strength high HP builds will be using this and then the forums will be filled with Blood mage nerf thread because of this.

You may feel the requirement is stupid but it is there for a reason which i already explained.



dfo99 -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (7/1/2014 11:22:45)

I know, but use str, tech, dex and suport abuse as a argument to maintain any requirement, will result in all skills with requirements. for example overlord and plasma rain is improved with dex and can be used with other minimum statistics, all points in dex smoothly but the devs do not consider it "abuse", allowing this build work. remember that abuse is different from op. if someone wants to set huge str, with the current balance, it will pay a huge price.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (7/1/2014 12:56:02)

Stat requirements are bandaids, just like Agility was. The problem is, with the current state of balance, they are necessary. When will they not be? When the game reaches near perfect balance, similar to that of in AQ. Of course, that'd take years to do, literally. AQ is also taking years with a bugger Team even, but there's a lot more to change too.

But what Mother has said. Make a sacrifice - skill or Strength. Builds with Support are bad? I must be terrible then, obviously. Why max it too? I think Level 5 has 10% drain, and the requirement should be 31 Support. Why not go for that? It's still decent, saves you skill points, and stat points too. Either meeting halfway, or picking between the two.



dfo99 -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (7/1/2014 15:20:39)

the current 42 of suport req from energy parasite and fire sycthe perhaps exist currently because is a remain from deadly aim, when everybody use 95 of hp.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (7/1/2014 15:26:29)

No, they aren't bacause of the old passives. They STILL serve their purpose and prevent builds from becoming too powerful. Deadly Aim was an offensive (Str) passive. Fire Scythe + Energy Parasite also work off Strength, former being pure damage and latter having an effect and (apparently) being unblockable. Don't see how 95 HP links to anything - considering many Strength builds in the passives era had at least 100-110+ HP, with Agility or without it.



dfo99 -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (7/1/2014 15:48:39)

in the era of passives and agility, set 36 of suport to use deadly aim was effetive, now there only bms with 45 or 18 of suport in lv 40 (with littles exceptions) and many players with more than 1600 of hp, instead 100-110+.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (7/1/2014 16:22:04)

Based on ED Wiki, the requirements are the same. The 36 Support you mention, is L 7 DA - and that's because of how terribly DA has scaled and often capped at L7-8 (especially before x10). That's why I mentioned Lvl 5 Parasite - 10% drain (and x1.5 return) with just 32 Support requirement.

Again, you either deal with it and train Support, or lose out on a skill in favour of even higher Strength. Considering the skill is unblockable, that's even more the reason to NOT lower it. If it wasn't unblockable, I could support it (like I used to in the past), but right now? No. 85% unblockable damage + 50 minimum damage (which CAN be really handy at times) is just great. So yeah, either lose the skill, get Support to 42-45 (Focus 5), or meet halfway at 32 Support. Or remove the unblockable bonus, and then you can lower the requirement, but unblockable > lower requirement. If Support was more useful, I doubt it'd be an issue, really.



dfo99 -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (7/1/2014 17:03:12)

well, while there classes that can use a build with 85 of str, 1500+ of hp, 18 of suport and still use any mana skill, i never will change my concept. does not matter the price (skills nerfed, turned blocable or "the worst but still better than suport" staff requirement). basicly bms need some mana counter in this conditions, in my opnion.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (7/1/2014 17:20:53)

You have the skill, just refuse to train Support. That's your problem, not with the game. Not even a balance issue but a complaint about not being able to use a skill due to your build. There is a reason behind "strategy PvP". Making decisions does fall under strategy.

Also, other classes have them either at a weapon requirement (less power in general) or improving with a stat, which may make them weak at a low amount. Whilst Parasite's effect is a consistent % drain that isn't affected by anything. The percentage, not the actual drain.

No one is asking you to change your concept. We're explaining why it won't happen, nor have already. In the end, your only argument is "I can't use the skill due to Support requirement" and your build has base Support. Either adjust your build OR lose the skill OR go halfway. If you don't want to, it's your problem - not an issue with balance. Fighting facts with opinions is pointless, because it doesn't help balance at all. Unless you take on the facts, there's no point repeating it, because you'll waste your time suggesting something that will not happen. People arguing with you have been around for years even, and have quite an experience with balance, with little to no bias - so even though we're not the Staff, there's almost 100% chance they share the same view, which is further justified by only decent suggestions making their way into the game (Botanical Hazard, partially Static Grenade, pretty much all of the recent balance changes, etc.).



Therril Oreb -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (7/1/2014 19:01:03)

A couple of posts have been deleted here since it was turning into a heated argument where people would take things personally.
opinions are great, exchanging experiences are good as well. but do not start calling people noobs because they have a different point of view.

Everyone's opinion is of equal value and if anyone looks down on someone else and sees himself better than others, that post gets deleted and warned on sight.
I will have no disrespect towards others. So keep things civil and remember to be friendly, helpful and most important of all Constructive towards each other.



The berserker killer -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (7/2/2014 23:53:22)

this class is perfect just the way it is. removing support req for parasite is the worst idea ever. no offense to anyone



Rui. -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (7/3/2014 13:28:06)

Parasire needs a class only requirement like mages. parasite needs a staff equipped to work.. With the last 2 buffs for it its become uncontrolable and we need to have a wep requirement set in for this skill. This class barely needs a staff for any skill except overload and supercharge. The sooner its implemented the less game breaking diff at high level. On a side note mages need staff.. Mercs and tlm need clubs to drain energy... So why shd this class get to use a sword.. Do damage and have a free energy drain... Cybers need energy to drain energy and bountys emp is nerfed beyond reason so that hardly matters.



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