=ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Therril Oreb -> =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/16/2014 16:28:34)

With so much interest in developing and discussing balance in ED, it has become apparent that we need to organise! So, in order to make things easier on everyone, from developers to players, we are going to organise some specific threads that will hopefully make discussing this simpler and more effective.

Blood Mage Balance Discussion Thread

This is where you can discuss everything balance related to the Blood Mage class.
Got a skill that doesn't fit? Perhaps a combo that proves to be too strong and abusable. Discuss it here with everyone!

A few guidelines before we start:
  • All AE Forum rules are still in effect.
  • No comparisons between other classes. You can use certain facts to build your case on, but please do not turn this into a 'BM vs X' thread.
  • Everyone's opinions are just that. Opinions. If you don't agree, that's fine. But, there is no need for rule breaking behaviour.
  • If you see a rule-breaking post, please refer to The Trinity: 1.) Report it 2.) Ignore it 3.) Move on. We would rather you have fun with the discussion and let the Forum Staff worry about rules broken.
  • Constructive Criticism is meant to improve something, not rant, whine and complain to be heard. If you are going to criticise, do so with the intent to give help, not tear down.

    Happy Discussing!




    • Caspyin -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/16/2014 17:06:49)

    So biggest thing going on with BM's I think is fairly obvious.

    What is up with Parasite?

    When it very first came out, before the inflation stage, it was amazing. Then after the official passive removal, after the inflation of stats/hp/energy, it became the worst energy ability around town.

    So lets list some Pro's and Con's. Since I am clearly biased against Parasites current state, and I am the writing this post, I will start with Cons first.

    Parasite Cons
    - Has a severely nerfed dmg (as a lvl 40 does about 50-63 dmg every single time unless there are debuffs/crits).
    - Takes 15%(at max) over 3 turns. Allowing the enemy to energy dump their best or any energy skill.
    - Has a support stat requirement (42 at max).
    - Anyone with any real build worth mentioning can steal about 100% of the BM's energy on the very next turn (ex. Assimilate/EMP gren/static smash).

    Parasite Pros
    - It is unblockable, meaning that 50-63 dmg is guaranteed. Oh yea....
    - If parasite is first applied, it does make the opponent think for a second before using battery, but then they remember how much parasite sucks and they use it anyway.
    - It generates more overall energy in the match then was previously 'up for grabs' since it produces 1.5x the amount stolen. But ultimately that energy is only used against the BM anyhow. So...

    So, no half decent rant is worth reading without mentioning some reasonable attempts to fix the problem.

    Possible Parasite Fixes
    - Make the dmg normal, or at least anything better then its severely current nerfed state.
    - Make parasite continue to steal 15% (15% at max or whatever its % lvl is trained to) at the point it hit its opponent (Ex.: Opponent had 420 energy when hit with 15% parasite; 63 energy stolen 1st round, 63 energy stolen for the next 2 rounds no matter what, as well.)
    - Get rid of support stat requirement.

    Please add your constructive criticisms to this post. Better ideas? My ideas suck? Lets hear it.

    -Caspyin

    Post edited to remove profanity. Please refrain from using profane words or abbreviations of it. ~Therril Oreb



    Noobatron x3000 -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/16/2014 17:26:26)

    The only real problem with bm is parasite .

    Now the only real fix I can think of and its a semi fix at best but this is easy for the devs so has halve a chance of getting in .

    Switch parasite out for the tm's assimilate before the nerf on assim , leave the tm's assim nerfed, Still assim wouldn't be as strong as parasite return wise, then again parasite is so easy to counter in real terms the old assim is stronger.



    Xendran -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/16/2014 18:08:27)

    The biggest problem with blood mage by far is Energy Parasite. It is utter trash in the vast majority of situations.
    A skill like Soul Split is both well designed and an interesting use of some of the mechanics that exist in the game like reflect damage. 

    Soul Split
Strike the enemy, draining a % of their current energy;
Caster gains 1.5x the amount drained;
20% of damage dealt is taken from the casters health;
Caster gains 2x reflected damage as energy.

Weapon: All

Cost: 0

    Level 1:  13% Current Energy 
    Level 2:  16% Current Energy 
    Level 3:  19% Current Energy 
    Level 4:  22% Current Energy 
    Level 5:  25% Current Energy 
    Level 6:  28% Current Energy 
    Level 7:  31% Current Energy 
    Level 8:  34% Current Energy 
    Level 9:  37% Current Energy 
    Level 10: 40% Current Energy



    You can find my full class revamps Here.




    kosmo -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/17/2014 3:50:38)

    energy parassite doesn t need to drain and regain huge ammounts of energy, it just needs to not be a waste of a turn in the most of the cases.

    so i would go for an incrase to the initial dmg and a decrese on the support req. (like many have already suggested before me)



    santonik -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/18/2014 14:16:29)

    Today's energy parasite


    I think it would completely change the way that energy parasite. Now, it is% based.
    It's ok, Until comes with a high energy of your opponent. (More than 1000energy)

    This leads to the game might be grateful for the moments of uncertainty. The other player is almost independent of the energy and the other is completely dependent on energy.
    Today, 15% is too much. Perhaps it would be better if this PARASITE be amended from% damage.

    Between 15% is too little. Especially when playing against opponents of the minimum energy.


    PARASITE could change to a solid lesion. A little bit like the poison works. This would take energy away from the opponent equitably. It would not be effective over or under the effective destruction of the energy / asset.

    Fixed energy (poison) damage. This would also help them in some players who have very little energy.

    ENERGY (POISON) PARASITE

    This could serve three rounds.
    It is the energy you will be able to steal you get to keep.
    There are no more coefficients.

    Shock originates from this could be a strike. (50% damage)
    not of rage.

    (This is a poor model. Idea just to show some numbers.)

    40 skill level.

    Level 1: 10 Energy damage and energy gain.
    Level 2: 20 Energy damage and energy gain.
    Level 3: 30 Energy damage and energy gain.
    Level 4: 40 Energy damage and energy gain.
    Level 5: 50 Energy damage and energy gain.
    Level 6: 60 Energy damage and energy gain.
    Level 7: 70 Energy damage and energy gain.
    Level 8: 80 Energy damage and energy gain.
    Level 9: 90 Energy damage and energy gain.
    Level 10: 100 Energy damage and energy gain.

    Now I used the translator. if there are strange words as it is .... embarrassing. But still.
    If this sparked any kind of fascinating. so that's good. Bear in mind that this proposal can and should be developed further. (This time is still green fruit)...



    Caspyin -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/18/2014 21:45:19)

    New Suggestion!

    To add onto the permanent energy draining effect...

    quote:

    Ex.: Opponent had 420 energy when hit with 15% parasite; 63 energy stolen 1st round, 63 energy stolen for the next 2 rounds no matter what, as well.


    But it also prevents energy gain by that same percentile. (In the above ex. that would be 15% energy prevention).

    Lets do it.

    -Caspyin



    edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/19/2014 21:47:20)

    The idea from my thread that is now in the nethers

    The only flaw I see in using this skill is how the person that it is casted on could just deplete their energy supply. To fix this, the energy drain and energy regen should be consistent or slightly diminishing for all three turns based on the amount of the Opponent's current energy.
    Ex.
    Opponent Currently has 350 energy and you have max parasite(15% steal, 22.5% regen).
    Scenario 1:
    +79 energy/-53 energy for all 3 turns the skill is in effect or
    Scenario 2:
    Turn 1: +79 energy/-53 energy
    Turn 2. +68 energy/-45 energy
    Turn 3: +57/-38 energy

    Also I would suggest the support requirement becomes "improves" VERY SLOWLY with support because all stat requirements are bad-aid fixes.
    Also, at least 65% strike damage


    Don't know if I still would like the skill to be like this but just throwing it out.



    kosmo -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/21/2014 13:04:26)

    after using this class for one day i can say it is very good, more balanced that what i tought, it just need some thinking.



    Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/21/2014 13:09:38)

    Not that saying "it is very good" really helps, because you should justify why you think it's balanced - when many other players, who are BMs, disagree (as seen in the above posts). Positive and negative feedback is often better when justified. If it's good, how so? This gives a Game Dev an idea where they've went right. And vice versa, with negative feedback.



    kosmo -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/21/2014 15:43:11)

    getting 85-90% win ratio in 1v1. (rank 12)

    its like a bh but whit intimidate and blod insted of granade and smoke, if u know how to use it no1 can stop u from using 2 marks of blood.



    Darkforce832 -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/21/2014 17:21:40)

    They should fix Support stat before anything happens to Energy Parasite. If Support was more use full then today, then Parasite might not be an issue of getting such high requirement for it. (This is assuming Support requirement is forever on Energy Parasite)

    Pros:
    -Works both as gain and drain in one.

    Cons:
    -Low damage, depending on player level and other offensive moves the player is capable of. I'm thinking it should be scaled based on the players level as someone suggested.
    -Easily influenced by player affected by Parasite.
    -High Support requirement, when Support stat isn't effective.

    Other:
    -Unblock-able but only 50 damage. (A pro and con in itself)
    -May or may not stop a player from using skills on there next turn. All the other skills are much more effective at stopping, lets say a predictable heal coming up.
    -Often on 3rd turn of Energy Parasite the opponent has no energy to drain/ gain from.

    Of my use of the skill, I have it currently maxed. The only reason why, is due to the never ending supply of Energy that Tech mages and sometimes Tact Mercs have. If Battery Pick up didn't exist, I personally find the skill useless for the most part.



    edwardvulture -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/21/2014 19:19:06)

    Support isn't really under-powered as much as how it is not able to be utilized offensively for a few classes, one of them is blood mage and the other one is probably bounty hunter. Also, they said they were going to fix rage, maybe support scaling will play a bigger role.
    @Darkforce My suggestion on destroys 2 of the cons...

    Support could be utilized offensively for blood mage if they just expanded the skill tree. THey could simply add an overload with red animations that scales on support.



    Darkforce832 -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/21/2014 21:17:59)

    Energy Parasite is ok as is, but it does need a kick to it to make it on par with other energy drain/gain moves. There are many small things just holding it back.
    I'd have to see what they do with Support first (if it stays on Energy Parasite) in order to see how reliable of a skill it is.



    Exploding Penguin -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/21/2014 22:10:29)

    The thing with energy parasite is it's actually very useful as a harassment tool since it deals really weak damage and pretty much forces your opponent to use energy when they don't necessarily want to. However, it's really just way too tactical and doesn't provide any form of effect near the end of the battle, unlike other energy skills where you can drain that 100 energy the opponent has to use another field medic with static grenade/static smash. I'm thinking add a base energy drain value to the skill so it's %-based or a set amount, depending on which is higher.



    Caspyin -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/23/2014 14:36:57)

    Some have asked me recently...

    "Caspyin, if parasite is so bad, why do you use it and have it maxed out?"

    To which I simply reply....

    "Just because you throw a scrap of bread to a hungry beggar, and they eat it, doesn't mean they're no longer hungry, doesn't mean they're now equal or happy with their circumstances, they just had no other choice, they're just trying to survive."


    -Caspyin



    Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/23/2014 14:49:15)

    @ Exploding Penguin

    The funny thing is that I noticed is that the most tactical items/skills that require thinking to use most call them weak. I say this because I have seen quite a few things out their that force players to go out of their way or in a way they don't want and they want those things buffed so they will work like other easy to exploit skills.

    Energy parasite is just one of the examples of this.



    Caspyin -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/23/2014 15:12:05)

    @Mother1

    What you say is absolutely true. But doesn't apply to parasite. In this case, it really does completely suck in comparison to other energy skills.

    The damage is completely laughable. One of the worst case scenario's for a BM is WANTING to parasite but having rage. It's such a complete waste. Has any TM said this about assimilate? No. Because it can still do very credible damage. Just one of many examples, I'm not going to continue reiterating everything else that has been said about parasite's negatives.

    Parasite in theory can be a balanced skill. But for all the many reasons mentioned above it is currently, absolutely, NOT one.

    To your point, I don't want an easy to exploit skill. I understand using parasite should take forethought and planning because of its ability to continuously steal energy over 3 rounds. I get all this. So do most BM's. But it's not the lack of proper use that makes the skill bad, its just quite plainly and simply... the skill in its current state that does.

    -Caspyin



    Exploding Penguin -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/23/2014 15:13:52)

    @Mother1: The main point is that the population is not right, they just have more weight than what is correct. Because majority of the population now consists of the newer players who are less skilled than the ones playing since the very early phases of ED, skills that require more...skill are just deteriorating and will continue to do so while skills that don't necessarily require much of a nerf if any at all will keep on receiving them.



    dfo99 -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/24/2014 2:49:03)

    quote:

    getting 85-90% win ratio in 1v1


    you have print screens or some proof?



    kosmo -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/24/2014 9:44:42)

    prints what?



    Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/24/2014 10:08:36)

    Probably prints(creen). In other words, a screenshot or some other proof to prove the 85-90% ratio in 1v1.



    kosmo -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/25/2014 3:08:54)

    lol are you truly answering my question?

    df099@
    i can proove it whenever you want, ask active good players, or just come and join the game ur self.



    dfo99 -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/25/2014 6:16:46)

    some blood mage lv 40 can post print screens with 85 or more wins per 100 matches proportion in 1v1 before any buff from devs?



    kosmo -> RE: =ED= Official Blood Mage Discussion Thread (3/25/2014 6:40:47)

    so u would watch a vid of 100 games.

    ok i will work on tht.



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