RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Isangman0 -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/16/2014 20:17:52)

Awwww.


Another theory I have is the Desterrat Moya because why the heck not?



sithdragon123 -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/16/2014 20:23:23)

Desterrat Moya is meant to be a god from the time before the Avatars and Elementals. One does not simply control the mind of a god or actually defeat him for good. You can banish them. You can change them. But you cannot kill them. Then again, I suppose the same goes with Kathool so Desterrat Moya could perhaps be another voluntary chaos beast. Maybaps he turns out to be the father of MoM for all we know.



Alastair Q -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/16/2014 20:24:37)

@Isangman0

The Desterrat Moya is a god-like being revered by undead, and after Knave1's release in 2012,
spoiler:

imprisoned by the Hero in another dimension

An excerpt from the April 16 2012 Design Notes:
quote:

An entity which inhabited this plane long before Lore's current pantheon, this creature has clashed with gods... and lost. An Elder One from the time when the stars we see were dark, the Moya is very powerful and grows stronger feeding on the pleas and petitions of the undead minions who can still think. However, though they look on the Moya as a deity, they do not comprehend its true nature and that may be their downfall!

Showing clear influences from Lovecraft's pantheon of Elder Gods, that implies the beast is not only powerful, but beyond comprehension - Chaos would give it power, but what would it gain? It already has the ability to face gods, and even when we banished it, it still lives on.



Ryu -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/16/2014 20:29:20)

I'm still going to go with Drakath saying it's us. We're the only thing that makes sense. Then the eggs will hatch and all kinds of cool stuff will happen. I wonder what's inside the eggs. A giant bird-like beast like the Spirit Beast Pu from YuYu Hakusho would be awesome.



Hollow Knight -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/16/2014 20:35:57)

It's probably the reincarnation or heir of The Dragon of Time. We are an anomaly that exist in all timelines and dimensions in the same way the dragon of time does so it would make sense we would balance each other.



Isangman0 -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/16/2014 20:40:58)

Isn't Aria's grandmother still Chaorrupted?[;)]

That aside, it's really fun to try and guess what the devs have in store for us.

EDIT: I agree with Hollow Knight.



ShadowMoon -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/16/2014 21:42:05)

quote:

I think Warlic can shrug off Chaos just fine, what with the power to blow up the whole planet with the use of about 5 basic fireballs. The eyes thing could've just been due to the art change but those're just my two cents.


quote:

An entity which inhabited this plane long before Lore's current pantheon, this creature has clashed with gods... and lost. An Elder One from the time when the stars we see were dark, the Moya is very powerful and grows stronger feeding on the pleas and petitions of the undead minions who can still think. However, though they look on the Moya as a deity, they do not comprehend its true nature and that may be their downfall!

quote:

Showing clear influences from Lovecraft's pantheon of Elder Gods, that implies the beast is not only powerful, but beyond comprehension - Chaos would give it power, but what would it gain? It already has the ability to face gods, and even when we banished it, it still lives on.


warlic probably can be split in 2 again & Kathool is of the same breed as Desterrat Moya.
as for what would Desterrat Moya would gain? it might be immortal, but without worshipers its as powerful as a rock. with chaos it can force more then just the undead to worship it
@above now theres a thought, aria's granny riding on Desterrat Moya's back & barking orders at it



ThatHeroGuy -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/16/2014 23:10:14)

@Hollow
That's what I've been thinking for a while now. The Hero is The Dragon of Time and the egg balances us out for this reason.



Red Komet -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/17/2014 1:22:16)

Would make sense

Anyway would like to see The Hatching



Ryu -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/17/2014 8:12:29)

Not really.
quote:

Warlic: Drakath has retreated to the Realm of Chaos, and if we're going to stop him from raising the final Lord, we'll have to follow. But… I'm not sure how.

Find Rayst… Arryd… Renn… As'iiur… Madra… Sora to Hoshi. Surely one of them will have some kind of records that can help us discover the path of Chaos.

He may have just got all the information from others. He also said stop him from raising the final Lord as if the person isn't already one or aware of it at least.



Saoni -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/17/2014 9:04:15)

In one design notes Alina said were were going to kill the chaos lord before he raise the beast but Mirror Drakath told us in the opening cutscene that the rise and fall of the 13th beasts (chaos or ordeR) are fixed points in time. Hopefully they dont have the story written as what I said earlier.


~Ulitra



Alastair Q -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/17/2014 13:50:21)

@ShadowMoon
Could the Desterrat Moya not simply force others to worship it already, having already clashed with gods? That amount of power presumably eclipses anything Drakath can offer The Banished One, as far as canon goes.



301st Legion -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/17/2014 14:10:22)

I simply dislike the idea of Desterrat Moya being either a Chaos Lord or Chaos Beast. Look at the scenario. Desterrat Moya is a powerful deity worshipped by the Undead. It would be ugly to see a well respected and well feared entity to suddenly be dominated by another much more powerful entity like Chaos. Say for example, didn't it just suck when Sepulchure (the most feared and dreaded DoomKnight in all of Lore) got his beans wiped out on the floor by Drakath? Didn't that kill the vibe? Sepulchure's dignity was stepped on, but we had to move on with that and accept how powerful Drakath has become.

It would be a disgrace to see the legendary Desterrat Moya bow down to another force of power. I mean, yes, Desterrat Moya has lost countless battles to numerous gods, which happened eons ago. Would you really like to witness a powerful and well feared deity bow down to another powerful entity? Like I said in my previous posts, it would make more sense if Lord Brentan was the last Chaos Lord. Otherwise, if we are to expect something random and unlikely, Sebastian would be my best pick for the last Chaos Lord.



ShadowMoon -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/17/2014 18:32:47)

yet the hero managed to reseal it off and as i said before, its powerless without worshipers. its power is determined by worship. i'm not saying it can't get worshipers on its own, but without them its can't even compete with drakath. we should think less about what its based on & more about what it is in aqw. the hero can have a Cthulhu as a pet, i highly doubt its father is far off.
anyway no one has ever provided me with any reason why a champion of an element can't be a chaos lord. can't go with the whole "immune to other elements" thing either, just cause gravelyn can't be turned undead, it doesn't mean she can't be chaorrupted. chaorupption is higher up then unlife/death

also shouldn't the last one be of a diffrent fraction then good & not a lionfang repeat



Red Komet -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/17/2014 19:24:35)

Maybe no more of the extremist/terrorist chaos lord theme like Lionfang who is more of a terrorist than a soldier

Anyway Chaos Lord 13 should be more unique than Lionfang



bugattiboy91 -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/17/2014 19:57:13)

The 13th Chaos Lord will probably be the Hero. If it's not then AE probably plans to use deus ex machina because they've proven on more than one occasion that they will just do their own thing regardless of the playerbase's actions.



Jolan3000 -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/17/2014 20:03:37)

quote:

anyway no one has ever provided me with any reason why a champion of an element can't be a chaos lord. can't go with the whole "immune to other elements" thing either, just cause gravelyn can't be turned undead, it doesn't mean she can't be chaorrupted. chaorupption is higher up then unlife/death

We can see how gravelyn (the Champion of Light) is evil/dark. And Artix (the Champion of Dark) is good/light. So i think that the Champions of the elements can be corrupted by other element. So yes... Artix or maybe Mirror Drakath can be chaorrupted. (but i dont think that they will be the 13 Chaos Lord)



Uiluj -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/17/2014 20:33:50)

quote:

We can see how gravelyn (the Champion of Light) is evil/dark. And Artix (the Champion of Dark) is good/light. So i think that the Champions of the elements can be corrupted by other element. So yes... Artix or maybe Mirror Drakath can be chaorrupted. (but i dont think that they will be the 13 Chaos Lord)


Gravelyn and Artix were "corrupted" by other elements in terms of ideology and principle, but not the same way chaorruption works. Gravelyn was never able to use necromancy, and Artix was never able to use light-based magic. If they were truly corrupted by other elements, that shouldn't be the case.

Artix was never purified by the light element the same way Gravelyn purified the Doomblade. I'm not completely certain if the paladins and clerics never tried or if it's impossible.

Gravelyn was never consumed by the dark element the same way Valen/Sepulchure was by the cursed doomknight armor. Not sure if Sepulchure never tried or if it's impossible.

Either way, I don't think it's definitive proof that champions can be corrupted by other elements.

quote:

can't go with the whole "immune to other elements" thing either, just cause gravelyn can't be turned undead, it doesn't mean she can't be chaorrupted. chaorupption is higher up then unlife/death


That doesn't quite make sense. As far as we know, chaos is just another element, just like darkness and light. You can't say one element is better than the other.

We know Gravelyn, the Champion of Light, can somehow physically harm Drakath when he least expected it.



ShadowMoon -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/17/2014 22:10:15)

let me put it this way, drakath might be the champion of chaos, but hes also something higher then a champion at the same time: an avatar of chaos.
also, if being the champion of the light element prevents necromancy, then explain to me how chuckles exists? chuckles was the first undead thing gravelyn brought back. i doubt that artix can't learn light spells, i think its just harder for a champion to learn elements outside their own & its even harder to learn the opposite element. also how many times must this be said?
darkness is not the same thing as evil & light is not the same thing as good. believing that is like believing the most famous videogame ninjas are an example of what real ninjas where like.
famous ninja, controlling chaos, so contradicting....



Uiluj -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/17/2014 22:41:02)

quote:

let me put it this way, drakath might be the champion of chaos, but hes also something higher then a champion at the same time: an avatar of chaos.
also, if being the champion of the light element prevents necromancy, then explain to me how chuckles exists? chuckles was the first undead thing gravelyn brought back. i doubt that artix can't learn light spells, i think its just harder for a champion to learn elements outside their own & its even harder to learn the opposite element. also how many times must this be said?
darkness is not the same thing as evil & light is not the same thing as good. believing that is like believing the most famous videogame ninjas are an example of what real ninjas where like.
famous ninja, controlling chaos, so contradicting....


Even when Drakath is the avatar of Chaos, that only implies that Drakath is not a typical Champion of Chaos. It doesn't make chaos in of itself naturally stronger than the other elemens, it doesn't change the nature of chaos, or the fact that chaos is just one of the many existing elements.

I didn't know about Chuckles. Sorry.

I never said darkness is the same as evil. But the rulers of the plane of darkness want to destroy all life in this plane of existence. If you're a moral relativist or an anti-natalist then I guess you can argue that's not necessarily evil.

I'm not saying that it's impossible, but the evidence put forth in the posts I've seen thus far are pretty weak. I don't think Gravelyn or Artix was "corrupted" by the other elements, nor do I think chaorruption is "higher" than necromancy, whatever "higher" means.



Omni Avatar -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/17/2014 23:45:18)

Ok. While throughly reading through everyone's thoughts and opinions on the 13th Lord and Beast of Chaos, I have come up with some answers and ideas.

First of all, Desterat Moya does not have the potential to become a Chaos Beast or Chaos Lord. After you banished it the story with that "God" was ended. There is nothing else to say about Desterat Moya.

During the Chronospan Saga Kathool even said that he would allow Drakath to use him as his puppet of Chaos, therefore he did not undergoe complete Chaorupption. There were a couple of loose ends in terms of the Chronospan saga, like how Kathool mysteriously disappeared and how Iadoa said that he might be able to come back from Chaorupption.

The theory about how Desoloth could possibly be a Chaos Lord or Chaos Beast is a possibility. He has the potential and the power to do so. However, as we look back on previous Chaos Lords and Chaos Beasts, you can see that none of them really had an exalted authority. Desoloth isn't just a plain Dragon, he's almost considered something past an Avatar. He shares certain qualities of authority like Drakath and the Mother of Monsters. So ultimately the possibility of him being a Chaos Beast or Chaos Lord is very slim.

There are still many unanswered questions about previous storylines, like The Core of Magic, The Dragon of Time in the Chronospan saga, The Mother of Monsters in the Falguard saga and many more details.

Now I would like to theorize something about the Mother of Monsters. Whoever the identity of this mysterious, omnipotent creature/being is, it must be very important to the next saga of AQW which will happen after the completion of the 13 Lords of Chaos.

If anyone reading this has played Dragonfable, and has completely finished the elemental orb saga, you will see that at the end Dr aka the was in a forest and a mysterious orb was floating on top of him. This orb is believed to be the Chaos Orb. You can see the similarities of the Chaos Orb from Dragonfable, compared to the Chaos orb (cape) from AQW, from the ultra elemental warrior class. You can also notice that we have not yet seen the Chaos Orb anywhere in AQW at all, nor was it ever mentioned. This poses many questions about the Mother of Monsters, as well as the origins of Chaos.

If you played AQW, and completed the story involving Dragon Drakath, you will see that at the end the Mysterious Stranger/Mysterious Necromancer, Sepulchure's master in Dragonfable, talked to Drakath about the 13 Lords of Chaos. No one really knows what happened to the Mysterious Stranger after he was defeated in Dragonfable. He was most likely not destroyed since he is equal or even superior to the Elemental Avatars, so this it is possible that he/she/it is the one that have Drakath his powers of Chaos. My theory is that the Mysterious Stranger was sealed away after being defeated in Dragonfable, and now must be set free by crossing through the portal of Chaos. This makes a lot of sense since he was seen in the end of a major saga in both Dragonfable and AdventureQuest.

Now about the Celestial Dragon egg. Not much is known about it other than the fact that it balances us in the mirror realm. So what is it actually? Here are a couple of possibilities about the egg. The egg could be the Mother of Monsters. The whole point of us killing the Chaos Beast's is so we need to hatch the egg and whatever comes out of it will cross through the portal. This could explain as to why Dr aka the wanted it so badly during the Mirror Realm story. There is also the possibility that everyone's wish of the hero being the 13th Lord of Chaos is a reality and the Celestial Dragon is our Chaos Beast. Personally, I want to have a pet of the Celestial Dragon. I think that it would be the COOLEST PET EVER!!!! However that's just my hope. I think the egg will play an extremely important part in the game whoever it's purpose is still unknown.

Congratulations Alastair Quote for winning the Design a Release contest. The release was really fun and really interesting. I liked battling the Cockatrice and I liked how you included the 13th Beast of Order as part of your story. Nice touch!

There is one thing about Alastair's release that still has me puzzled. I went on the forums to read the full details of your release and specifically about your merge items. I saw that your original idea for one of the merge items was: 13th egg on your back. The AQW team did not keep that idea but instead turned it into the 13th egg pet. Egg pets have posed much mystery through all my years of playing AQW. Do they hatch? What do they hatch into? Will they just remain an egg forever? Will people think I'm insane because they see an egg is following me?

What I would like to know is if AQW changed the idea for the item, because if they intend to eventually transform that egg pet into an actual 13th Order Beast pet? I really hope AQW does this because I would love to have a pet of the 13th Beast of order.



Alastair Q -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/18/2014 5:50:07)

^Thank you - I do not know, though, if the Egg is meant to change into the 13th Beast of Order. That's always a suggestion to be made to Alina, though. :3

Hmm, though it would be nice for a Celestial Dragon to be the 13th Chaos Beast, the egg is meant to be our equal in the Mirror Realm. A Chaos Beast and Chaos Lord cannot possibly be equal in power; after all, only one of those has sentience(almost all of the time). There's also the conundrum of trying to kill the Beast if you switch positions with it every time you cross realms...



Uiluj -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/18/2014 13:09:59)

@Alastair Q

I think the egg in your release is different from the egg that Mirror Gravelyn found in the statue. The appearances are different.

The one that's supposedly the 13th Beast of Order is white with a yellow pattern, while the one that's supposedly a mirror version of the hero is black with images of stars and planets in it.

Maybe the egg evolved to look different? But I doubt it.



Alastair Q -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/18/2014 13:18:06)

@Uiliuj

The egg in "The Fell Beast" is the egg containing the 13th Beast of Order, not the Celestial Egg from previous canon. Both are two different entities; sorry for any confusion.



Legion Champion -> RE: =AQW= 13 Lords/Beasts of Chaos Discussion Thread (5/18/2014 13:20:57)

spoiler:

Woah! Gravelyn is the champion of light?!
Why did I read this thread [:(] and by the way in which storyline was it revealed?



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