RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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LyRein -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/6/2015 15:15:01)

@Brainux

I wasn't against that idea at all

But my hopes are still pretty low now, they had to lay off a lot of staff when they're already so understaffed, it's not a good sign.
I've seen Cy's videos and some general gameplay and I don't see what's so special about it..

EDIT

Biggest gamers are PC + Console gamers, hardly anyone takes iOS games seriously.
Biggest gaming community is on Steam, those guys don't enjoy mobile games on steam, one mobile was featured on Steam and it got so many bad reviews, mainly because of how limited a mobile device is compared to a PC.

I don't see the advantage of moving closer to mobile other than some extra players.
The most popular games are all on PC, moving closer to client-based games would've made more sense and given them more ability to do fun things.

Maturer, serious gamers who see games as more than just a time pass are the ones who make games popular and they are mostly found on client-based PC games or console games.

Gaming companies are becoming business in this day and age, gaming is becoming a serious activity, the most successful (financially and popularity) game was either on steam, downloadable or on a console.

Same with most successful indie games.

They are making this game so that it's more fit for mobile, they've said that multiple times.
They're slowly moving away from the PC altogether, mobile has so many limitations, this'll become a huge problem later on..

I'm seeing this as something i'll play on the bus for about 10 minutes till I get to my next stop.
Not something i'll actively play daily and spend money on..




Brainux -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/6/2015 15:50:41)

@LyRein, yes, AQ3D is rather understaffed, but they have Artix, Cysero, Dage the Evil, and other major people working to make the game better, and not to worry, because they are hiring devs, testers, and moderators which would make everything better. As for mobile games, technology is catching up so I reckon that it wouldn't be that much of a problem, I know, AQ3D will look puny against all those gigantic graphicroid games, but that is not what makes a game "hardcore", if you put hardcore into perspective AQW is one of them, but generic gamers don't take AQW seriously because Artix Entertainment is largely based on kids. I have played client based games left and right, yes, they are hardcore, but the reason why I sticked with Artix Entertainment is that it's hardcore in a subtle kind of way without being generic. Try to get all ten Juggernauts of Nulgath for example, hard isn't it?




Azan -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/6/2015 16:55:01)

quote:

Falconreach in 3D

Another thing that has all of my yes![:D] I do hope the staff doesn't just reproduce the world of AQW and includes elements from DF and AQC. How awesome would it be to travel from BattleOn to places like Analphar, Lolosia, Edelia, Sulen'Eska or the ruins of Sil...




Lord Noonien Soong -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/6/2015 17:18:01)

^Also I remember seeing a 3D Tomix not to long ago, that might possibly mean something?




Evangel -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/6/2015 17:28:40)

If I remember correctly, that 3D Tomix was something Dracelix was doing related to school work. Not to say Tomix won't ever show up in AQ3D, but I think that 3D Tomix is unrelated to the game.

Also, I'm not sure how similar the map will be to other AE games. In the latest video on their YT, Cysero said something about the Doomwood area being on a peninsula, but Doomwood is nowhere near large bodies of water in other AE games.




LyRein -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/6/2015 17:43:47)

@Brainnux

I didn't say graphics make a game (if that's what you mean by graphicroid)
Hardcore doesn't make a good game.

All I said was mobile has so many limitations whereas if they'd have made it client/download they could've done so much more and made it much more worth the wait, other than a bit of nostalgia..

EDIT
Yes, technology is advancing in an extremely fast rate, with high-end tech becoming smaller and some new devices bendable

The age of a mobile replacing a PC is far from near though, a mobile has to fit in your hand, able to fit in a pocket.
PC have a huge case just to hold the parts, it's not easy to micro them..

They can make a mobile RPG but why make their first 3D MMO(RPG) limited by that?
Why make it cross-platform if it'll just get pushed down so it can fit mobile better?




Darius -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/6/2015 19:56:35)

I kind of agree with LyRein about console/PC gaming being a major portion of the market, and that AQ3D crossing over between PC and Mobile will limit what the PC version can do. But for my PC that can barely handle AQW as-is, I welcome a fully 3D-animated game that's easier on my CPU and RAM, versus one that roasts my computer alive if I play it for more than an hour. Plus, with the mobile port, I can play it on-the-go and not lose progress! :D In short, this game is absolutely perfect for me with the tech at my disposal. I can't wait for the Android version to come out!

The only things I'd like to see in AQ3D are:
1.) A departure from AQW's auto-attack combat system, in lieu of a physics-based hack-and-slash combat system
2.) A departure from AQW's /join commands, in favor of either a fast-travel system or mountable pets (or both)




Brainux -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/6/2015 20:23:44)

@LyRein, yes, I get what you're saying, but I don't think that the graphics will be really that limited, remember AQ3D: Legend of Lore? That was really laggy, but now that they departed from Flash and went with Unity, it got better. If you put it in perspective, AQ3D might be the best browser-based, and mobile-based, cross-platformed game. So, we have that. And as you said, we don't need very good graphics. It's good in it's own way, have you seen the buildings? I think they're really pleasing to the eye, with the exception of everything else, they need improvement. They know how bad their graphics is now, they know how good it's only going to get, I guess, and I might be wrong, that I think a cellphone OS can handle it way more than just a browser. As for clients? Artix Entertainment prefers convenience with updates and contents over tedious patches or whatever clients do. But I get what you're saying, really I do.

@Darius, I completely agree with you, but Artix Entertainment might not do that because they are too "kid friendly". Again, I don't think that it might that be limited, graphic-wise, yes. And I think LyRein and I established that graphics doesn't make a game good and I think that everybody else thinks so too, so why bother discussing the difference between platforms?





Lord GrimDusk -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/6/2015 23:21:53)

I made a video on youtube about the alpha testing. Click to watch.




LyRein -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/7/2015 10:04:52)

quote:

Cysero said something about the Doomwood area being on a peninsula, but Doomwood is nowhere near large bodies of water in other AE games.


Makes sense I guess,

spoiler:

QoM destroyed most of Dragonia and ripped Drakonus in half, if you play AQW..

So the waves might have changed and affected Doomwood..

Spoiler tags added. ~Zyrain




David the Wanderer -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/7/2015 10:36:33)

@LyRein: But this isn't AQW. I mean, like all AE games, AQ3D takes place in its own universe. The most likely thing is that AQ3D Doomwood is located on a different part of the continent than the DF or the AQW ones.




afterlifex -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/7/2015 10:50:58)

quote:

The only things I'd like to see in AQ3D are:
....
2.) A departure from AQW's /join commands, in favor of either a fast-travel system or mountable pets (or both)


Personally mounts are just a way to waste pixels and make the game more graphic intensive then it needs to be. If you need to get somewhere quick that is in between checkpoints just add a "haste" mechanic. You get your increased movement speed without having to have a bunch of bling on the screen.

Mounts either need to be non existent or extremely hard to come by. If everyone on the screen has a mount you just tax the system and take away any novelty they have when it could have been done with a simple movement speed buff.




LyRein -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/7/2015 10:57:15)

@David

Where did you get that?
They've said it takes 5 years after the events of AQW...




David the Wanderer -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/7/2015 11:14:48)

@LyRein: From the FAQ posted by Cysero on August 4:
quote:

Is AQ3D a continuation of AQW?
No. AQ3D will be its own game, just as AQW wasn’t tied directly to the AQ Classic timeline. You might see Drakath or encounter the Queen of All Monsters and her minions, but they might take very different forms in AQ3D, and won’t be tied in any way to AQW.




LyRein -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/7/2015 11:21:12)

@Above

QoM was an AQW villain, wasn't mentioned in any other game, the fact she makes an appearance even though she's a world destructing villain kind of suspicious.

First they said it would take 5 years after AQW's story, now they say it's separate, even though they base it off AQW a lot..

So confused..




David the Wanderer -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/7/2015 11:28:00)

@LyRein: He didn't say QoM will appear in AQ3D, just that she might. He could have said Sepulchure, or Valoth, or the Devourer... It doesn't really natters; it was just meant to drive home the point that if characters from other AE games appear in AQ3D, they won't be the same people they were in their original game, but a different incarnation of that character.




LyRein -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/7/2015 11:38:21)

I hope QoM doesn't return then, if she does it better be done right and not: i turn good lol

Drakath should grow up for once, mature but still have a goal to reclaim the throne.
(It was confirmed he is coming back at least)..




Silver Sol Los -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/7/2015 11:49:12)

I think you might be expecting too much from AE right off the bat. They are an Indie Game company, and they're spread thinly over all of their games because they adore their community and wish to do their best for us. For now their reach is limited until they manage to get more programmers, designers and story-writers. AQ3D is an ambitious project for them all because the first round didn't work out well presumably due to resources, which is probably why the AQ3D: LoL was canned back in 2012 and it's being attempted again this year now that they have a bit of experience doing walking steps.




LyRein -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/7/2015 12:09:55)

@Above

Let's think of all the indie game companies who release one game and get successful
Why can't AE do these things if other indie companies can?




Silver Sol Los -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/7/2015 12:36:07)

quote:

Why can't AE do these things if other indie companies can?


You can't compare one Indie company to another. Each company has their own style. Also, as another poster has stated, AE has its roots in child-friendly games, the slapstick G-rated humor being a major part of it. They don't want to attract an aggressive and rude audience because it clashes with their ideals.

As a matter of fact, AE is one of the most successful Indie companies in the world, being capable of releasing popular games one after the other and roughly around 2012 a business investor offered to buy the company for 80$ million USD and was turned down flat out. They also practically defy the 'one-hit wonder' stereotype that's been plastered onto Indie companies.

There's maybe 30 or so workers in their Headquarters, and you're criticizing that they're making a generic MMO in a section where they've had little experience. Going from 2-D to 3-D styled games is not easy. Neither is making games in general, I can say that with experience. Its pain-staking at the very least and it's hell for everyone involved, especially when they're trying out a completely new format.




LyRein -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/7/2015 12:43:56)

@above

What does a rude and aggressive community being attracted by better gameplay even mean.......?

quote:

As a matter of fact, AE is one of the most successful Indie companies in the world


What does this have with trying to make a good game?
In-fact it supports my view even more.

By the way, i'd like to know where you get your facts.

quote:

They also practically defy the 'one-hit wonder' stereotype that's been plastered onto Indie companies.


To be fair, only one of their games has actually been known worldwide which is AQW

quote:

Going from 2-D to 3-D styled games is not easy.


Graphics are different from gameplay, you can make a 2D game with better gameplay than a 3D game..
Gameplay is my point, not graphics...

quote:

Neither is making games in general, I can say that with experience.


If AE is so successful why would it be hard to come up with original ideas that wider range of people may like?
Games only become popular if people like them, nowadays people want new original ideas because nearly every MMO has used this one pattern.




Silver Sol Los -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/7/2015 13:15:19)

quote:

What does a rude and aggressive community being attracted by better gameplay even mean.......?


Good gameplay attracts many, and in general, many online gamers don't exactly follow Wheaton's Law when it comes to etiquette. Gameplay may be amazing, but if you have mean people populating the servers it doesn't exactly bode well for new players or a community in general and it leaves a bad taste in newer players mouths.


quote:

What does this have with trying to make a good game?
In-fact it supports my view even more.

By the way, i'd like to know where you get your facts.


Compared to other Indie companies that become slowly less known after they've had a one-hit wonder game and take forever to work on a new title or sequal, Artix Entertainment has managed to stay on top because they know what their audience wants. If anything, thats one major step to making a good game. Besides, everything starts out on a specific staple that other games follow. You can make the same arguments about the FPS, RTS, and sports genres.

In regards to facts, Artix made a post in the AQW Design Notes about the whole investor incident. It's also been stated several times that the company has a small staff, which is why volunteering to be a mod or tester here is so important to the company. The devs work on making things playable and creating content, but they can't always squash out every bug or make every chat zone safe for younger/newer players which is where player mods and testers come in.


quote:

To be fair, only one of their games has actually been known worldwide which is AQW


AQW became popular because of the standards that the original AQ, DF and MQ set. They ensured players and outside viewers that they're a professional company that is willing to go the full way for their fans.

quote:


Graphics are different from gameplay, you can make a 2D game with better gameplay than a 3D game..
Gameplay is my point, not graphics...


Graphics and gameplay in a 3D game need to be symbiotic to work effectively. There's so much more involved in modelling and map making in 3D games than there is in 2D games. Geometry needs to be correctly assessed and programmed, the actual walking and action scripts need to be correctly coded so they won't clash with other parts of the games programming or you'll end up with a giant, buggy mess that's ridiculous to try and correct, and then you've to make sure those corrections don't clash with anything else.

quote:

If AE is so successful why would it be hard to come up with original ideas that wider range of people may like?
Games only become popular if people like them, nowadays people want new original ideas because nearly every MMO has used this one pattern.


As I said earlier, most games follow the same pattern when starting out. It's the way that someone empowers an idea that makes a generic idea suddenly innovating and fresh for players to experience.

Except the Grind. That is a universal constant in any MMO/RPG game that we will be forever cursed with.




LyRein -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/7/2015 17:56:17)

@Above

Every game will attract good and bad players, what's wrong with a bigger population? Your saying the gameplay shouldn't improve because "too many" people will join?

quote:

Compared to other Indie companies that become slowly less known after they've had a one-hit wonder game and take forever to work on a new title or sequal


They don't need to, they continue updating this "one-hit-wonder" because people like it, if they make a sequel they'd have to think of something new that still has the.. charm, as this one-hit-wonder, THAT isn't easy.

But like I said they mostly just add new content to the already existing game.
Quality to Quantity

quote:

AQW became popular because of the standards that the original AQ, DF and MQ set. They ensured players and outside viewers that they're a professional company that is willing to go the full way for their fans.


Back in the days when flash games ruled the internet yes, they were popular.

Now, they're becoming less known because the new success games are on Steam and require downloads. This is to add much more content than a web game could offer, help make bigger worlds/free travel, less limitation, steam workshop allows the community to interact with devs and the other players of a game..

They moved straight from webs to mobile, which wasn't a good idea..
They plan to release this game on Steam if it becomes popular but no-one (specifically the average game enthusiast) find mobile games as interesting as others because there is LIMITATION.

Add the fact not many browser-based games become known on Steam..

quote:

There's so much more involved in modelling and map making in 3D games than there is in 2D games.


I knew this, that's common sense..
As for the whole making animation and geometry, I thought you were referring to graphics (when saying 3D is different from 2D), not those things, so sorry for my mistake.

quote:

As I said earlier, most games follow the same pattern when starting out. It's the way that someone empowers an idea that makes a generic idea suddenly innovating and fresh for players to experience.

Except the Grind. That is a universal constant in any MMO/RPG game that we will be forever cursed with.


There's a reason as to why one-hit-wonders are wonders in the first place. The developers take time to make the game playable for a few days before adding more content, AQ3D went to Alpha to quickly, not even at least a month gap between tech demo and alpha.

These one-hit-wonders are wonders because the developers don't rush to release the games, they look at the base of game mechanics and take time to think of original ideas and expand, improve the base with them.

AE is trying to release this game as fast as possible, without thinking of the consequences, there will be so many problems in the future. They plan to release this game to OPEN BETA in WINTER 2015

Alpha has just begun, seriously.

Like you said, 3D games are hard to make, so they should have took at least two years making this game, adding lots of starter content, instead of doing it in a few months.

The grind can be avoided though, if AE add crafting/forging (i'm not speaking of merging weapons to get the perfect look and stats, I mean crafting sidequests that require you to collect reagents and craft a misc. item in exchange for gold/exp or the item in practical form), mining sidequests, trading/merchant travel sidequests, etc etc.

Or even mixing these ideas and more into the main questline.




Rlogg -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 1:35:24)

@LyRein how long should an alpha phase. This would last probably 4 to 5 months.
And besides they may even extend the deadline.Also the game is technically over 2 years since the game originally started in 2012




GuardMouse -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 4:18:57)

@Rlogg This game is a completely different game. AQ3D: LoL was shelved. And the new one is called AdventureQuest: 3D (this one has almost been out for a year).




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