RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Frogger -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 4:30:17)

I really want to see this game depart from AQW.
Don't get me wrong - that game was completely amazing in its own way, but I want to see something different. Lore re-imagined - or at least playing back to AQ and DF more so than AQW (in part because I preferred Sepulchure as the villain than Drakath). I also feel that, despite being the main marketing point, AQW doesn't really fit the 3D game/gameplay scenario of AQ3D. I mean, try to imagine the Titan armours Dage created in 3D. Take the lag that they can create, and then stick it into Unity, which can get pretty overwhelmed by the slightest things. Just imagine it. Chaos.
I don't mean fun, Joker chaos, or Drakath chaos, I just mean chaos and lag and nothing amusing.
Hence why we need to, in my opinion, step away from the high-art of AQW, and create new armour and weapons specifically for AQ3D, instead of just porting things over. Blade of Awe re-imagined, for example.

Also, on the subject of mounts - perhaps not available through the whole game, but for some awesome points in the story, such as charging the Tower of Necromancy mounted on a FrogZard, lance in hand, accompanied by as many players as can fit on the bridge. All in beautiful, 3D glory. Like something out of a movie.
I really do think that this game, if done right, can become the most successful game in AE's history.



LyRein -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 8:22:28)

@above

What about the combat, travel and interaction man [:D]



Frogger -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 9:08:52)

I like interaction the way it is at the minute, and hopefully there will be private map instances in the future so I can do solo things when I want to. That'd be useful.

As for travel, we need an alternative to /goto or /join. Maybe something like the good ol' fashioned AQ travel map, or the DF Falcon Fast Travel? I'd like to see those revived again. It'd make the RPG bit of "MMORPG" more immersive.

And combat? Ranged should really be a thing in AQ3D. Unity gives us this capacity - Rangers shooting bows, rather than beating Trolluks senseless with a bow; Rogues being able to Sneak like in The Elder Scrolls, and Warriors being able to tank. Unity gives us these options and AE could, if they applied themselves to this project, make AQ3D into their best game ever. If they just rehash AQW... Maybe not.



David the Wanderer -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 9:30:46)

Talking about ranged attacks... Right now, the only ranged attack we have is Fireball. However, I noticed that if I shoot a fireball at an enemy from "high ground", the mob will still run up to me and manage to hit me, even if it would be physically impossible. Yesterday I had a frogzard walk under the ground and attacking me from below the earth.

Personally, a great attractive of using ranged attacks is to manage to hit enemies from afar, negating them even the chance to attack me.



afterlifex -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 9:55:45)

There would have to be some kind of drawback, being immune to dmg and sniping monsters is not an ideal mechanic from a balance standpoint. It sounds fun I agree I like the idea of an agile "hunter" but it negates all other possibilities.

Once set up in your hide you don't need HP, Dodge, potions etc., it's a farming god.

Even if you are as fragile as an egg shell it does not matter since you aren't going to take dmg.
I however agree a monster should not be ignoring the environment. If they are not built for climbing they should either follow you for a distance or lose aggro after awhile.

I am not against using the terrain to your advantage such as evasion & scouting but there has to be limits to abuse in a multiplayer game.
I just don't think this would be the right game for it.


edit: if people see a one sided advantage they are going to jump on the bandwagon, you don't need 1000 archers and a handful of struggling tanks that can't compete.



Frogger -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 9:56:09)

@David:

I agree with what you're saying completely.
I experienced being attacked from below by several creatures, which should be impossible, yes, however we must remember that the game is in Alpha, so nothing is perfect quite yet. AE should get around to fixing this at some point!

I also agree with what you find attractive about using Ranged weaponry. I don't think it should be class-specific either - if you want to be a rogue with a bow, then be a rogue with a bow. You might have to train Ranged harder than an Archer, but you could still do it.
As I've said, Unity opens the door to these options which Flash couldn't allow. Which is why, unless AE just rehash AQW into 3D, AQ3D could be the defining game of Artix Entertainment.



Azan -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 10:04:19)

quote:

I however agree a monster should not be ignoring the environment. If they are not built for climbing they should either follow you for a distance or lose aggro after awhile.

What could be realistic for monsters not built for climbing is just fleeing out of your attack range when you shoot them. That way, to finish your job you would have to move from your hideout, thus rendering you vulnerable for the rest of the fight while not taking away the advantage of a first blow without a counterattack range would allow. Dunno if that would work though.

I also hope that, as the game progresses, we have ranged enemies too. AQW don't have those unless I missed something...



afterlifex -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 10:18:35)

Reminds me of an old hunting game I played, if you did not OHKO the animal you had to leave your blind to finish it. However the likes of boars would not stand idly by at that point, you had a good chance of it running beyond you and turning the tables.

A "smart" AI might be interesting to see or even it calling for back up. You don't kill that zard right of and the next thing you know there is a pack of them.



David the Wanderer -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 10:18:38)

@afterlifex: Of course, ranged attackers shouldn't be untouchable at all times, but since you don't always get to find an ideal sniping spot, or manage to kill a mob before it reaches you, I don't think we should be too worried about the existence of ranged attacks (which aren't necessarily exclusive to archers; lots of spells can be long-range).



Evangel -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 14:17:50)

What if ranged attacks (primarily equipped ranged weapons like bows) 1) dealt slightly less damage than melee, 2) auto-attack took longer between hits (3 seconds instead of 1.5, to draw the bow and aim and whatnot), but 3) drew less aggro from monsters?



LyRein -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 14:21:04)

quote:

I like interaction the way it is at the minute, and hopefully there will be private map instances in the future so I can do solo things when I want to. That'd be useful.


I meant obstacles, boss summonings, stuff like that.
Also, solo will probably happen since they're keeping in 4 skills [:@] a.k.a power creeps a.k.a solo overpowerness (if otherwise they'd have said so on their FAQ).

quote:

As for travel, we need an alternative to /goto or /join. Maybe something like the good ol' fashioned AQ travel map, or the DF Falcon Fast Travel? I'd like to see those revived again. It'd make the RPG bit of "MMORPG" more immersive.


Why not fast-travel to hub areas for a small fee of gold (getting higher depending on level/difficulty).
Cause it seems a bit odd teleporting to a forest, it'd make more sense logically and plotwise for us to go to a town then the forest.

quote:

And combat? Ranged should really be a thing in AQ3D. Unity gives us this capacity - Rangers shooting bows, rather than beating Trolluks senseless with a bow; Rogues being able to Sneak like in The Elder Scrolls, and Warriors being able to tank. Unity gives us these options and AE could, if they applied themselves to this project, make AQ3D into their best game ever. If they just rehash AQW... Maybe not.


How awesome would that be, you actually holding your bow properly instead of holding it in one hand and smacking a trolluk in the head hoping for the best (how do we even fire arrows if the bow works in one hand only).

Yeah, ES does the rogue thing right, as-well as AC, AE should get some inspiration from them.

But as it looks right now they're copying AQW's everything, same battleon as AQW, same 4 skills (which can lead into the class hell AQW is today with every class just op) and, if i'm right at guessing, they'll be starting the rare chain again.

Would you agree a GW2 style combat (hybrid) would be cool? Tablock on monsters but interactive combat like TERA's as an example (loads of games are starting to do this now).

Let's hope they make classes have 6-8 skills, otherwise I'll probably cry.

Another guy on the feedback forum had an idea of having customization like: Fireball does raw, huge damage or DoT? Heal does HoT or big heal? etc etc.

Let's also hope they don't continue to use AQW as a base.



David the Wanderer -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 14:43:18)

Small note: if you read this, and go to the "What classes are coming to AQ3D?", we get a preview of the skill icons of two classes (Warrior and Mage, apparently), which, when added to the basic "Attack" skill, would make for five skills. Personally, I'd like at least another skill, plus one or two slots for "quick use" for potions and the like.

Also, I wholeheartedly agree on the idea of adding physics to the combat. Anybody ever played Dark Souls? That game had one of the best Real Time combat systems I've ever seen: dodging, blocking, counter-attacking, backstabbing... Even a fight against a simple mob could be turned in an awesome duel, thanks as well to the enemies having a very smart AI (it is not uncommon for first-time players to be slaughtered by the first few mobs they meet).



LyRein -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 15:12:18)

@above

Blight town, do not remind me. Oh the horrors... and the skeletons at the start, oml...

Also, I don't count the auto-attack as a skill, it's designed more for easier aggro and if you're lazy to click on monsters.
6-8 skills would be better imo.

Why exactly does the mobile and PC UI HAVE to be exactly the same?

How about make PC controls and UI easier, using keys to access settings/inventory and to lock on enemies?
And the mobile how it currently is?



David the Wanderer -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 15:16:11)

@LyRein: Definitely agree with you on both not considering auto-attack as a skill, and that 6/8 skills would be the perfect number to allow for different combos and more interesting combat, making the game much more appealing as a result.

Mobile still is a work-in-progress. It will be released for Beta Testing in December. As for why they have to be the same... The idea is that you can just whip out your mobile device and log in to your character from anywhere with an internet connection. So mobile and PC have to be the same*, or people would be forced to play different games when on different devices.

*Not completely. The PC version will probably be better both in terms of gameplay, graphics and general usability.



LyRein -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 15:20:57)

Not a different game, but different UI, that still looks the same but is designed to fit the devices accordingly. Not changing any skills or experience gain or whatever.

So mobile will say for example have to press the inventory button to access their inventory while the PC players can just press a key.

Cleans up the viewing space for PC and still able to play the game on mobile.

(i mean you can't really press a button on mobile..)

Argh you edit too fast for me David!



afterlifex -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 17:30:18)

On the subject of skills, I would like to see not only the ability to re-bind keys but be able to decide what skills I want to use.

ex: lets say skills work much like the other AE games they are build into the armor, which may or may not change later.

That would be your base selection, you then can gain additional skills from items, titles etc.. However you still can't go past 4 or 5 skills total.
You would then have mix & match what skills you want to take with you. Balance would be key with this however.

A warrior may not natural have access to a fire ball or a long ranged attack but with the right item they would be able to forgo one of their traditional skills in favor of one.

Or perhaps an additional "alt" skill past the normal set, a technical skill; Bow attack, Haste, Teleport etc..
..........
As things sit right now it is looking a bit too much like an AQW port then anything. The ability to re-skin items just reinforces that, it's little different then AQW enchant feature.
I do look forward to being proved wrong however.



Trancendus -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 19:33:24)

I would like to suggest an idea of "Class Tiers" with each of the skills evolving, or extra skills being added. You can customize your skills through skill tabs and such.

For example:
Warrior -Raider>Berserker
-Knight>Crusader

Mage- Priest> High Priest
-Wizard> Archmage

Rouge- Ninja>Assassin
-Stalker> Blademaster



Darius -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 20:41:46)

I don't like the idea of class tiers. Every class should be just as viable as any other class, IMO. For example, base Warrior might be better at drawing aggro and tanking, while Paladin would be better at protecting allies with healing and defense boosts, but you'd need Warrior rank 10 to train Paladin. Example 2: base Mage might be an elemental sorceror, while Necromancer might mess with their foes using status hexes, but Necro would require rank 10 Mage to be able to train. Example 3: base Rogue would be your standard trap-buster/locksmith/pickpocket, while Monk would be a bare-knuckle brawler/high-health meatwall, but would still require Rogue rank 10 to unlock.

In a way, it'd still be tiered, but at the same time, even the lowest-tiered classes would have useful effects and skills that would be independent of your level of progression in the game. Every dungeon would have traps to defuse or locks to pick, every monster could be sniped by archers and/or nuked by mages while the meatshields pull aggro and the healers keep everyone alive... The list goes on. There is so much potential here, I'd hate to see them waste it by simply cloning AQW's mechanics and functionality, draping a distractingly glittery 3D veneer over it, and calling it a brand-new game when it's anything but original.

@Below: Regardless of what Cysero does or does not look at, may or may not respond to, or would or would not consider, the devs requested this feedback thread be made for a reason. Why ask for our opinions, observations, reactions, and suggestions at all if they don't give a far-flung flying funky cheese wheel about what we think, feel, do, or want regarding AQ3D? Geez, you act like Cysero doesn't give two shiny red pennies about the players whatsoever, but that couldn't be further from the truth if you picked it up and tossed it in the rubbish pail. If anything, he cares too much; he cares far too much about us to ever give up.

Er, wait... This is the discussion thread, not feedback. Still, my point stands. And even if Cysero doesn't post on the forums often, he and his team still read the forums every day. They respond to social media posts, they react to player feedback, and even if we don't see it, it's out there. He'll catch it eventually. He may sometimes post a snide remark on Twitter or a pointed quip on Facebook about some of the truly asinine comments and criticisms he receives on a daily basis, but at least he lets us know that he saw it and it made him feel something.



LyRein -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 21:52:45)

@Above

Cysero (aq3d lead writer) doesn't seem to be active on the forums much, so chances he'll see any feedback are low.



Uchiha Sarada -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/8/2015 23:06:28)

Just because he doesnt reply means that he is not looking at the post we make, im sure he atleast checks the forums once a day.



Azan -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/9/2015 0:18:24)

quote:

Cysero (aq3d lead writer) doesn't seem to be active on the forums much, so chances he'll see any feedback are low.

It's true Cysero's last forum login was more than one year ago, but Cysero is definitely not the only staff member working on AQ3D! Other game devs and mods/liaisons such as Melissa4Bella or Zyrain (I don't know if they're liaisons for AQ3D though) can see the feedback posted there and consider it. So Cysero's inactivity on the forums does not mean we should refrain from giving feedback![:)]



Uchiha Sarada -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/9/2015 5:49:36)

You cant judge the Inactivity by Looking at his forums Profile, You can check the forums without Login.



LyRein -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/9/2015 10:31:32)

@above

You can read the forum as guest but not reply.
It wouldn't hurt for him to reply to these kind of things would it..

EDIT
If he does read the forums at all he would've mentioned an idea he liked on his twitter, facebook or on one of the videos right..?



SonicTbear -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/9/2015 11:22:49)

Sooo... anyone up for fighting Smash Mash for his gold sword? My IGN is (of course) Tbear. Gotta go at 12.



RKC -> RE: =AQ3D= Discussion Thread (8/9/2015 13:50:36)

Sorry for saying this ok but AE are noobs at making 3D models as of now. I hope as we progress in testing the game they will make the objects and everything smoother and not jagged. Also I hope they make the armors look shinier.

This is still alpha but Im just scared because AQW had so much potential but they keep saying that the engine is limited to this and that, that they couldn't implement a lot of cool stuff to it.

They chose Unity as the engine they better be prepared of the consequences and limitation to it. Remember This is a 3D game and people have very I mean very high expectations on this kind of platform. I mean they could have gone a different approach and could have chosen another engine to do this but yah they have to uphold the browser thing they keep boasting.

Overall I hope and really hope this will be good. I have planned to support this game when it comes out (cant wait to be founder).



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