RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (Full Version)

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Seth Hydra -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/12/2015 3:47:15)

^Because you know, now choosing the wrong armor in AQ gets you 2HKO'd.



Rezilia -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/12/2015 4:21:41)

Well, yeah, there's a difference between choosing the best armor per situation and getting steam-rolled. If AE does it right, they can put the right balance in AQ3D.

The worst enemy of any game is boredom, and easy town creates boredom.



Seth Hydra -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/12/2015 5:10:01)

Umm, the difference being? Point is, the new balance standard introduced in AQ's patch 39 made it obligatory to use the prepare before battle and use level appropriate armors. As such, non casuals began finding the game very difficult, while prior to the update... we (As in forumites) complained it was far too easy.

There has to be a middle ground tbh. From what I can observe in AQ primarily is that whenever we have a monster thats even slightly challenging, there posts for the staffs head. It happened with Shadow maelstrom, Chaos Knight, Pesty and Fammy and Wind essence (Although in case of the last, the staff stood their ground).

One thing I was kinda disappointed or rather not pleased was the fact that this has a combat system that's far too much like AQW (not a compliment). Sure it's gonna be alright for mobile devices, but I was really hoping for something like DF. If this is going to be AE's uber shiny flagship, it needs to have a combat system that isnt designed for 10yr olds and must include more skills, effects so that there can be some level of strategy, or personalisation involved when it comes to battles.

Also, AQW's quests are nothing compared to what AQ or DF offer which is another thing I'm not overly fond off. I'm not talking about the storyline itself, but rather the manner in which the quests are conducted. killing x monsters 'y' no of time, finding 'z' item after killing a stream of monster are errands, not quests. AQ and DFs convey an actual story.

While I did play the game and test the waters, right now IT feels like a 3D clone of AQW. Really hope it gets more substance than that, because I have some really high hopes for this game.



David the Wanderer -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/12/2015 7:25:47)

There is something I don't understand: the idea that if a stronger class exists, it will "cancel" all others. I often play with things I like, not the best available, because games are supposed to be fun. If, hypothetically, there was a Deathknight class that was stronger than Paladin, I'd still use Paladin because I prefer Paladins to Deathknights. Sometimes people don't care for optimal DpS and just want to use something they like.

All RPGs have a scale of progression, where newer things are better than old ones, but that doesn't means you should skip the starting equipment because you eventually get better stuff. What if Warrior class is weaker than, say, a class you can get by fully training Warrior? Obviously, that second class (let's call it "Super-Warrior") will be stronger than Warrior, but you need Warrior to get Super-Warrior. It's called progression: you start weak and slowly get stronger. And who knows, maybe you'll find that you prefer old vanilla Warrior to Super-Warrior because it fits your playstyle more.



Wolfofdoom3 -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/12/2015 7:55:18)

Hmmmm I kinda wonder if we will get classes from other games like the Atelean classes.Riftwalker(if animated well) would look amazing in 3D.Anyway I agree with David classes must not be equally strong,if you really want to use a weaker class use a weaker class.Look at DF DMK is the strongest class but people prefer using Avatar of time for example or other calendar classes or deathknight.Some classes even if weaker can be way more fun then others.It's all about preference after all.And maybe some gamers want to punish themselvs using a weaker class to make things more difficult.



Rezilia -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/12/2015 9:32:09)

quote:

It's called progression: you start weak and slowly get stronger.


Yeah, sure, but AE has completely abandoned the whole "train one class to get another" thing.



David the Wanderer -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/12/2015 9:36:02)

@ckdragonck: Please read the first paragraph in this post by Gjappy, who is AQ3D's lead tester.



ernitis -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/12/2015 10:33:07)

Sorry if I'm repeating my self here.
I think all base classes should be jack-of-all-trades, but masters of none. Once you train a base class, you can get the higher tier which has a more specific role. So from mage you could go healer, filling in the healing role, or sorcerer, doing a more dps role.

EDIT: The older classes would get used, for example when you are adventuring with friends after a hard day at work and you don't want to think. you would chosoe warrior because it would be easier to use but a bit slower.



Angelixx the Good -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/12/2015 14:08:36)

Thanks David, hadn't seen that before. Seems like they're going the right way with classes then.

Any OTHER suggestion topics guys?



Brasca123 -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/12/2015 22:06:21)

i don't have any new suggestions, but i think i agree with poopbum's idea

having 4 skills locked to each class really kills versatility, surely you can just change classes as you need for some bosses, but some people just like playing with a single class only, having different skills available for each class would be nice

surely, it would be hard to balance around, but i think it's the best approach, i think that the main selling point of any given RPG is customization, to make your own character (or party depending on the gae) with your own skills and playstyle, being locked to 4 skills is such a small amount that i doubt any class would ever fit what i want, being able to choose between 10 or so would be a lot nicer

also, AE has shown pretty clearly with DF and AQ that they can balance things pretty well if they want to, so i don't think it would be impossible for AQ3D as well, they just need to think things properly when making them, test them out, and be willing to change things if they are broken

i still haven't tested the alpha, but if it's basically an AQW clone, i doubt i'll get much into it, i'll probably leave after a week or so



Caststarter -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/12/2015 23:44:49)

Brasca is correct that people expect a great deal of customization in terms of RPGs. So I do think it would be interesting to choose what four skills you choose. Though why not take it one step further? It might be far-fetched but I wondered if anyone would be interested if you could also choose one skill from an already trained class you have. Granted, it might not be all that practical though I think it would be interesting regardless. Essentially, you can have 3 skills from your main-class and have one skill of your choosing. The reason to only have one is to make sure you do not use fully-broken sets and to limit the player since they should just not have everything. (Balance afterall.) An alternative to this is a way to learn monster skills which will provide an incentive to code monsters with skills in the first place and have more unique set-ups but it will be up to RNG. I can think of it working like FF's Blue Mage system( but you know... not broken since in all but one game that Blue mage's came in... they were just too magikarp where they were too weak in the beginning... and just becomes blatantly broken after some time.) or EOU2: The Fafnir Knight's Grimoire system which is up entirely to RNG but at least you can get a stat bonus with it.



speedmeteor101 -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/13/2015 7:33:01)

Here's how I feel about classes. I see above, and/ or the last page, some were arguing about class roles, function, and trees. Personally, I feel like there should be 2 ways to look at classes: Solo, and Multiplayer.

For solo fighting, you should be able to have some freedom to choose your fighting-style. Maybe Every starts with 4 skills (such as what we have) and one of those (change-up) is capable of reacting with another skill if used while the other is still in cooldown. So let's say, with your starting 4, you may already have an effect but very small. And ranking goes up to 10. So when you get to six (like from 6-9) you can start to gather your first (choice) of four skills that may slightly alter you individual fighting style. An example I've used else where or maybe earlier here is "create effects that are focused on 1) Attack (example player guaranteed Crit when these 3 skills used in this pattern), 2) Defense (increased dodge or parry for player), 3) Increase accuracy (so player can cancel out opponent with high dodge), 4) Maybe health (take less damage, or lose less mana) and the base form would be like none of these. So this kind of thing will make a player much more unique without giving too much of an advantage [so class system not destroyed and not stuck to same 4 skills]." This only really changes an effect between 2 skills that the player has. Doesn't change the skills themselves or change the effects and synergies they may have with other classes.

For multiplayer all the class has to do is fill it's niche. This is up to AE. This part can decide where your DPS, Tank, or even broader, healer or rogue skills may come into play.

And for players to not even have many complaints about the skill limitations I think they need to focus on story (I think we can trust Cysero, look at what he did with DF!). I feel like it should feel like an RPG such as DF but with a more definite and central story-line, except with an option of friends on the side. Like the Orb War saga was the main thing in DF put together by going places all around lore... but there where still things on the side... holiday events, and other smaller quests you find while exploring lore (whether it's natural or just an NPC with his own small quest-chain or story [while there can still be NPC's with a main story]. So yeah nice system + big definite story = gg, i guess



LyRein -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/13/2015 8:58:32)

The problem with AE is..

they make classes as the areas and monsters get stronger, so higher-levels can fight them.

but then they allow lower levels to go to these areas, they die.
the classes specifically made for stronger enemies can be bought by lower levels.

lower levels buy these classes then go to these areas. they stop following the story after seeing the rewards in certain maps and power-creep cycle starts again, where they clear every new release or skip some story releases meant to be played in order to get good-looking gear or better classes to fight future releases with.

EDIT

The scaling system doesn't help either.
AE is destroying the whole point of leveling, in the bad way.



speedmeteor101 -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/13/2015 11:49:55)

If power creep is inevitable, then it would work if they had a more definite story line... like DF's Ch1, Ch2, and Ch3. Then that would make the level bumping even more seemly, especially if you want to get some help up there. Yes, it does sort of render the level system (sort of) useless, but for multiplayer gaming, it would be useful. Power creep can be okay if you work with your issues. It also makes sense how they are going to evolve the mage to sorcerer and wizard and such. As long as the armor and class's powers remain appropriate for the chapter it's okay. Like for Ch1 in DF warrior could get you through, but you would also try using the other classes you got throughout lore during the orb saga. These didn't really have any power creep and they were all balanced. Then in Ch 2 you get buffed-up Atlean versions of the base armors, which become more useful for that than say, Pirate or Dragonlord for that Chapter. AQW may have messed in having so many different stories at once and equipment for all lvls at each stop + enchantments. This made the story a less vital part for the functionality and the functionality more important for the stories. Meaning instead of moving your gear with the story-lines you move the gear TO the storyline. Dragonfable did better having all the side quests work for the "younger" or novice adventurers and the main stories have level appropriate quest rewards (assuming you do all the sagas, chapters, stories and quests relatively in order [there's sort of a window])



Rezilia -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/13/2015 12:43:28)

No RPGs should have levels, period. It completely ruins immersion and makes progression a pain. If your stats/skills get better in the game, it should be because you did something challenging to earn them - not because you grinded exp.

It's sad that AQ3D will have levels, especially since it makes them almost entirely moot with that whole "become another player's level" thing, but I do hope that leveling will mean nothing past a certain point.



ernitis -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/13/2015 12:45:25)

Add shields. Just do it.



David the Wanderer -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/13/2015 13:00:27)

Oh, I'm completely in favor of adding shields. I don't know why, but I find shields should be an essential part of any Medieval Fantasy RPG. They can also be very useful, raising your Block chance and Defence, AND can complement suits of armor!



LyRein -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/13/2015 13:53:08)

@ckdragonck

that's the problem.

with levels AE makes power creeps
without AE makes power creeps easier.

there's not really a leveling system anyways.
you can scale up to your friends' level and do quests with him.

have AE really thought this through?



speedmeteor101 -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/13/2015 14:31:35)

Can someone explain how this "jump to your friend's lvl" works? I'm really confused. Is it like you have a friend, click a button ,and poof [he's your lvl]? Or is it a small boost to help him out?



teravor -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/13/2015 14:33:16)

I'd say shields would be a good addition. But I'm also in favor of adding offhand things for the classes who wouldn't normally use shields. Like, shields for warriors, books for mages, an extra dagger for rogues?



poopbum -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/13/2015 19:43:13)

If we are gonna add shields, it opens up possibilities for a lot of different types of equipment.

Be it duel wielding(weapons, wands or even shields!), or two-handed weapons.(with appropriate bonuses for one weapon taking up two hand "slots")

Of course they need to be functionally different, instead of just cosmetic.
Hmm from the looks of it, the difference between each equipment might be just cosmetic due to the fact that you can grant stats to items on a whim.(as long as you have the resources)

Won't this mean that the game is gonna end up as dress up simulator again? I understand that we want to give players freedom to do what they want and simplify things, but to make difference between items ultimately cosmetic is ehh....well kinda shallow IMO and not really worth it.

I rather there be some form of functionality differences between how each item works, similar to DF and original AQ. Maybe this is merely a mechanic for level scaling equipment, I hope.



speedmeteor101 -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/13/2015 20:49:26)

Yeah, if there are shields, it would be nice if they were more than cosmetic.

The best, but unlikely, would be that mobiles get a small button or swipe gesture and PC gets a hot-key to actually use the shield to block (w/ an animation).

One step closer to reality is it may have a chance to boost your defense for a while if at random or maybe after a certain amount of successful hits or blocks.

Even more realistically, it will just be a cosmetic shield with super defense stats

Reality:A certain class comes with a shield attached similar to Dragonlord revamp in DragonFable OR A couple of gauntlets where the left hand has a shield attached. PURELY cosmetic... unless special effects come w/ like the flying skulls from the Necrotic Sword of Doom from DF. That seems like the different potential realities for shields.



Dweller -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/14/2015 16:32:27)

I'd like to suggest that quests tell you which NPC game them to you, and which zone they're in. I logged into the Alpha for the first time a couple days ago and accepted a bunch of quests. Today I logged in and completed one, but had no idea who to go back to to cash it in.

Thanks!



LyRein -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/14/2015 16:34:44)

@above

yes i agree this could become a problem since AE reuses old npcs in newer areas.

EDIT
Then i realized.

why would you be in falconreach if your quest was located in swordhaven?



ernitis -> RE: =AQ3D= Suggestions Thread and Rules (12/14/2015 16:59:56)

@above

Just incase you get bored of another area and you go questing elsewhere or need gear or something.



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