RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (Full Version)

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Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 18:25:37)

im saying the situation is better yes. id rather deal with pure evil then a self righteous hypocrite.


also by cleaning house i mean give them the boot unlike them im not a monster id only want ark zadd that dragon lord and jaania hanging from a tree the instigators of mass slaughter.



LyRein -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 18:28:33)

@above

So you want someone who wants to destroy the world rather than someone who wants to make it better + can be changed?

I fail to see the good side to this

@below

Sepulchure is worse than Jaania when discussing abuse of power.
He was just portrayed "cooler".

Also you'd rather have higher death rates than a new law passing?

EDIT

Actually weakening magical creatures is better than destroying the whole world.
imho at least



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 18:29:13)

you must enjoy betrayal a great deal then.

i like to know who my enemy is not someone who flipflops every minute.

i see the same amount of death NOW nothing changed just the person holding the sword

and duh seppy is the worse evil you missed the point entirely. the point was seppy never claimed his evil was for the good of the world.



Grandpa Oz -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 18:36:31)

ô_o What differs you from your enemy then if you denounce even the concept of repentance?



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 18:39:21)

i dont go out and decide hmm today is a good day to murder and steal from a bunch of people oh i may be able to get some slaves by tea time. How fair is it that they get to have the gift of life when they RIP it away from others because they exist because of what COSMIC EVILS do.


until geo has the rose have a civil war they are a cruel evil they lost their grey status during the rose dragon war.



LyRein -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 18:41:15)

@above

I'm sure it's much more complex in politics than just "let's go pillage sum foo's ayee lmao"

EDIT

Now i'm confused.

You're mad that they're "pure evil"
But you keep saying Sepulchure is the better villain..



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 18:42:30)

oh really because id like to see that....because so far that ALL i have been seeing. you get one magi helping the non magical folk of a town and suddenly everybody is on their side when they already have done enough damage to be seen as.......argh maddening.

when i say better i dont mean nicer...



Grandpa Oz -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 18:43:15)

Now you're contradicting yourself. If any character in the game represents "cosmic evil", it's the Stranger and by extension Seppy, not the Rose.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 18:44:29)

when they RIP it away from others because they exist because of what COSMIC EVILS do. .....how is that a contradiction?


i'll reword what i said. the rose murders magical being because of what SMUDD wargoth and seppy did!



Imaru -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 18:47:38)

@ Urmi, Actually good sir, you do decide that everytime you do a side quest for gold, or a monster hunt quest. What do you think happens when you hit a being with magical attacks or with the steel/magic of your blade. They dont go to sleep on a farm some where thats for sure.

Now I do have to agree with the Rose in one aspect.
Magic should be Regulated.
HOWEVER
Take for example today's modern society IRL.
We have gun regulations, but other Countries have different ones.
We have gun regulation, but the "Bad Guys" still use them to kill innocents.

All regulations do is take those who abide by them and place them at a dissadvantage.
Now, where some members of the rose have great great motives for doing what they due,
(loss of family from a maniac with fire, etc)
They need to realize that by killing innocent magical beings indiscriminatly,
By forcing these sentient beings into slavery and forcing them to fight against their friends or family...
All that does is turn the Victims of Magic, The majority of the rose mind you, Into the Monsters that they want to erradicate.




Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 18:50:29)

i do story quests not random adventure farming....so please dont try to go "AHA BUT YOU DO IT TOO" because i know better..


while gun control is a very similar case i was trying to avoid comparing real world political arguments (minus comparing the rose to goose steppers because that's not recent) for the sake of keeping things nerdy and safe.


though it is refreshing to see someone on both sides.



LyRein -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 18:52:53)

@above

but you're still required to hurt certain magical creatures

everyone is a hypocrite. if i had to choose, i'd rather be an organized hypocrite.

@below

but you have to :3



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 18:54:57)

i don't attack anything that does not attack me first if it is willing to talk i won't fight that simple. id rather be a solo hypocrite better to be blamed for ones own mistakes than be lumped in with a group whos mistakes dwarf yours

AQ has a quest that brings this up actually the nemesis set.


edit: dont :3 me they attack i fight back thats all. when did that get confusing?



Imaru -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 19:00:01)

*sighs*

You cannot not compare the two. We live in this socioty, and the game translates it well. Realworld politics, video game politics, Stories and book politics all share the same thing.

They are all politics. Sure the regime might be different, the names vary, and the order of things change, however they are all at its core related.

Mankind will find a way to destroy itself and anything that gets in its path, reguardless of good intentions by a few.

If you "regulate" the magic you force normal good citizens to obey.
The Citizens get attacked by the next UBER powerful demon thing creature.
No one can defend themselves.
No hero is presnt because magic is regulated to the point that heros cannot rise up
So the Citizens get slaughterd and the new UBER OMG boss thing moves on to the next town.

SUre, I know what your thinking, The rose will mobilize a response. Attack the creature with all the magic items and tools they have.
They might defeat it. Save the day. Except for the lives that could have been saved sooner.
Or they might fail, because magical Items alone are not strong enough. And then More people will die.

But alas, Im only an outside view looking in. And only time will tell....
But that is where I reside.



LyRein -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 19:06:17)

quote:

because magical Items alone are not strong enough.


the orbs are items
the doom gear are items
the pyro/necronomicons are items

what do you mean not strong enough?

EDIT

I don't think magical villains like Xan or Wargoth can rise again once magic is restricted..



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 19:09:44)

its been awhile but weren't the orbs destroyed? if the rose used doom weapons....sorry please re read that...

the nomicons perhaps though the pyronomicon is kaput.

also wargoth is an infernal.....they are not of lore and could easily come here to kill EVERYONE if the war between the magic using countries and the rose does not wipe out lore first.



Imaru -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 19:12:44)

@LyRein

And if lets say, Seppy, whos necromancy is unparralled?
Or what about ANY of the elemental lords?
What if one of them makes a move for control of lore and another elemental war breaks out?

My point is this, All of the Magical Items that EXIST in Lore Today might not be enough to hold back or defeat A new All powerful invader.

Without the combined forces or Many Many Many magic Users, Magic Items, and Magical Beings we have survived multiple treats to lore.

But If magic was as stricly regulated as the Rose wants then we would have been dessimated.

The "Bad guys" dont follow rules or regulations. They do what they want.



Solanaceae -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 19:26:26)

The orbs were shattered into smaller elemental fragments, which still contain about as much power as the orbs, but are conveniently much easier to hide.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 19:29:22)

same amount of power? yikes..



TheFarReach -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 20:27:59)

2 things.
First, it's been confirmed that, for the most part, we do knock out enemies and don't kill them. Not sure about the hunter quests though.
Secondly, no single person should be Judge, Jury, and Executioner. While it could lead to Jedi, it could lead to something far worse. Just something to think about.



Emrys -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 20:59:27)

By the way tephra and limu, the original names, mean fragments of rock and lava expelled by volcanos and algae, and ahimsa and tipu, their new names, mean the practice of non-harming and tiger



ShadowMoon -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/11/2016 22:51:56)

the rose is like team plasma, a cult with a mix of members who are there either because of the misguided ideals or other various reasons with those at the top of each area having different ideals &/or desires.
jaania is more then likely just like natural in being used and put up on a pedestal not knowing the goals of the one who put her there. the difference being is that jaania has even less of a grasp on her ideals then N and just froze warlic & xan because she was ticked off at them with the hero just being caught in the crossfire. though the hero would still have gotten frozen after disagreeing with jaania's mixed up ideals.
whats funny is that magic is being blamed for all these messes when ironically it was love triangles that are at the root of all the major problems.
alteon, seppy & lynaria's love triangle caused book1 & set into motion the events of book 2 thus making it so the warlic, xan & jaania love triangle could kick-start the events of book 3.



Brasca123 -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/12/2016 2:18:24)

quote:

i don't attack anything that does not attack me first if it is willing to talk i won't fight that simple. id rather be a solo hypocrite better to be blamed for ones own mistakes than be lumped in with a group whos mistakes dwarf yours

remember that headcanon != game canon, the hero does sometimes kills things that are simply in the way of his quest for a magical item
quote:

My point is this, All of the Magical Items that EXIST in Lore Today might not be enough to hold back or defeat A new All powerful invader.

i kinda agree with that, however, the only all powerful villains we had were only able to rise because of magic being all around, if the rose had almost full monopoly of strong magical artifacts, there would be no way for SMUDD to rise, and consequently, wargoth would never be a thing
quote:

same amount of power? yikes..

yes, this has been confirmed at some point in the lore questions thread
quote:

it's been confirmed that, for the most part, we do knock out enemies and don't kill them

you sure about that? pretty sure we only knock enemies out on that quest from robina to give gold to monsters... i could be wrong on that, but i'd like to see where it was confirmed that we usually just knock monsters out
quote:

alteon, seppy & lynaria's love triangle caused book1

huuuuuum, not sure about that, first of all, so far as i know that is only true for AQW, in DF seppy's canon might be different from that, secondly, the MS has many plans, many many plans, he might've been able to do what he did with someone else instead of seppy most likely, seppy was just the best option available



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/12/2016 2:21:13)

its not headcanon when its been in game since book one.

we need an official list of who the hero has actually killed

smudd (though that was our dragon and not us) akriloth and the innocent people from the envy saga are the only ones i can think of



Melissa4Bella -> RE: =DF= Design Notes February 9, 2016 - Jaania's Thorns (2/12/2016 4:37:59)

Ok everyone, take a break, a deep breath, and relax.



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