RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (Full Version)

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Pedrofire -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 13:07:46)

@Solanaceae: I agree, I wouldn't want to switch up gear setups every time I chose to do a different quest, but having to acquire certain niche items for the really tough fights is OK in my book. Adds to the challenge and it's rare enough (though the challenge fights have been released quite frequently recently, I don't think future fights will all exhibit cutthroat levels of difficulty or be as frequent) that it shouldn't, in theory, feel like a chore. I'm all for many builds that are viable in the vast majority of situations. Niche items can find their way into these builds simply because people want to play a bit differently so if they're interesting enough they might actually stick around in people's backpacks instead of gathering dust in the bank.



Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 13:10:03)

Well, yeah, it punishes some builds over others. That's why it's staying in challenge arenas and not going to be in story or (most)side quests.
It would allow me to expect players that really want to beat certain challenges to maybe have to adjust their builds or which classes they use.

And it's just an example of something that I could do. It's not saying that I will do that for sure.
I have lots of ideas in my head, not all of them are good ideas, but these changes let me implement more of them.



Hopeful Guy -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 13:14:25)

Verly: Is there a specific reason why glancing blows do 20% damage? Or could that modifier be changed based on what class/equips you're using? Because I feel like thematically, it makes a lot of sense for some classes to take more damage from glancing blows than others (stealthy types vs tanky types) which could be compensated by those classes having higher defences to start with.

Also, I feel like 120 might be too low a roll for gimmicks. After all, if you have a class with 20 M/P/M to start and use niche items that give you loads of M/P/M at the cost of other stuff, you might become unhittable quite quickly.



Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 13:37:06)

Glancing blows do 20% damage because it felt best for classes with BPD shields who end up taking some but not all damage when shielding.
I can definitely make different classes or skills affect glancing blow damage.



Lv 1000 -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 13:47:41)

Now the the roll is out of 120 150, Timekiller's shield is just fine (when it was 180 it felt like it did nothing). <-- still alright gives my set up a 1/3 to 14/15 chance. Compared to 180 which 5/18 to 14/18 chance. <-- 180 is evil DIE!!!!!

Though Guardian still needs some love!

On another note, what's the status on Ranger? Is it still doing wacky things with crits/crit damage?



Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 13:54:37)

14.1.02 is out.

Changed the attack roll to out of 150.
Fixed issue with element swapping weapons resetting status effects.
Fixed LUK not affecting crit damage (in older quests mostly)

I'm going to let this simmer for a bit unless something explodes. I think it's in a good spot now, although I do want to investigate glancing blow functionality in the future, let's see how this plays.



Andlu -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 13:56:09)

Wait why was it changed to 150?



LouisCyphere -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 13:56:26)

Why the change to attack roll?

And I'm assuming the Class changes will come out after the engine has been stabilized?



Baron Dante -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 13:57:17)

So, now that I'm thinking about it, at what point do BPD reach the point where they always work?
Like, previously, MPM was 100, and BPD was 200.
We know MPM went to 180, and then to 120.
The explanation about attacks rolling for 120 would seem to indicate that BPD now also rolls for 120, yes?
quote:

Defenses now scale out of 120 instead of 180, but MPM and BPD have different rolls.

It's a bit ambiguous I guess? Are they both 120, rolled separately, or is 120 the basis to scale BPD off of?
Tiredness helps here.

So anyways, I took a look at BPD items. 93 Parry, 94 Block and 100 Dodge. Coincidentally, it's again the Magic defense that wins out.
Interestingly, using PoeLala might, after all these years, once again be a viable strategy. With the level 40 version, you could, after 10 turns, hit 123, 124 and 130 PBD respectively. Assuming the 120 as the cap, you'd get a natural 100% glancing blows.

EDIT: Well uh, it's 150 now, so...



Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 13:57:41)

Attack roll was changed to allow more flexibility in future item stats.

1st attack roll is vs MPM and is out of 150 now.
2nd attack roll is vs BPD and is also out of 150.
Same number.

There is no cap on defenses- just a check between roll + bonus vs stat.

The formula for damage reduction is just damage times the glancing scale. As of right now, it's damage * .2.



Andlu -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 13:58:31)

can we know the formula that BPD uses for the damage reduction? kinda wanna see the math around it



LouisCyphere -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 13:58:46)

That's hard to argue about.

But I guess it will make mobs with high MPM easier to hit?
Also, Guardian's Vortex fix when?



Pedrofire -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 14:06:19)

If the roll is changed to allow for future items then presumably these items will provide extremely high bonuses in some of the defense stats. Won't this just be power creep? If an item with, say, 20 MPM were released that immediately outclasses all other defense focused items. I understand the change, but I feel like items are going to feel so weak now compared to what is to come. I believe there was still space to to release niche items (e.g. something with 30 PDB, or 15 MPM) without invalidating other gear, provided they had sufficiently strong downsides (e.g. negative crit and bonus) rather than nerfing all current defensive options. The 80% nerf was far too much, but 50% isn't too far off.

I'll conduct some tests and see if my opinion changes.



Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 14:07:23)

Fixed Guardian's Vortex.

What I mean is I can have items that dont' give MPM. Maybe just M. or P. or MM. or a combination of thus.

Not to mention defense is insanely powerful. Even passively avoiding 50% of incoming damage is ridiculous, really.



Andlu -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 14:08:50)

will some items be updated to get equal amount of BPDs now? (kinda like poelala)



LouisCyphere -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 14:09:06)

@Verlyrus:
Thanks!

And Baron Dante is gonna break the game again.
Are we gonna have updated Poelala pet? Max level is 40 currently.

v@Verly:
That's fine, I guess. Poelala is going to get expensive if it has higher levels.



Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 14:10:38)

I think Poelala is strong enough as is.
I don't plan on updating older item stats.



Baron Dante -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 14:12:26)

@Pedrofire: I'd argue that not necessarily. It's not necessarily powercreep to make an item that has a high MPM (Assuming it even has all 3, which is not mandatory) if it actually has negatives to it.
I personally like items that actually hinder you in some way to give you better something else. Maybe to get high MPM, you need to take a hit to your All (And maybe even Healing while at it) resistance.

And with PBD, as I just showed, there's so little room that if you include gimmicky pets in (and why wouldn't you? Gimmicky pets are great) you can already break 120. 30 PBD would probably be too much even with the 150 standards tbh, if every item slot had that, you could break 150 easily. (Not including Trinkets, too)



Sflamin -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 14:12:52)

@Verly
Have you considered changing All resist not affecting -Health and -Mana?



Andlu -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 14:14:14)

Hmmm the only problem is that BPD is now specific to types, so poelala does have a problem



Baron Dante -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 14:16:07)

quote:

I think Poelala is strong enough as is.
I don't plan on updating older item stats.

What about special effects? The Grovetender set and Plushie Escherion come to mind. They got hit on the Crit side pretty hard.

quote:

Have you considered changing All resist not affecting -Health and -Mana?

Considering there are items that very much take this into account, I'd think that'd be a no.



Pedrofire -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 14:16:58)

But don't players that have accumulated the best items in the game "get" to become tanks if that's the build they prefer? A build might make you take less than 50% damage overall, but there's also a loss in offensive capabilities that can't be disregarded, defenses, I'd argue need to be strong because for most quests it doesn't matter. Most mobs deal very little damage (sub 100) which already makes defense builds niche. In future they can be designed to encourage more defensive approaches, and items can be designed to cater to those play-styles; but that's not the DF of the present. If I can't guarantee that I'll dodge over 50% of incoming damage from a hard hitting boss then I might just try to max out damage and try to out hit it because my survivability, even with the best defensive gear, has been hit so hard.



Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 14:16:59)

I really should have just trusted my instincts and kept it at 180. Let's see how 150 goes for a while before changing it again.
I wonder if I can make a weapon that makes it so that the enemy crits you more often...

And this doesn't stop you from playing tanky. The goal is to prevent infinite turtling, if possible.

RE grovetender and Escherion, I'll have to take a look at those items specifically.
Just checked. Grovetender buffs are already carried over into the new system.
Plushie Escherion's buff got adjusted to the new system. (live now)

All resist is really really strong. Cuz it resists against all. It's got to have a downside, and that downside is that it lowers how much you get from healing.



LouisCyphere -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 14:20:18)

I think 150 is fine as a sweet spot. 180 is too high and 120 is too low.



Pedrofire -> RE: =DF= DragonFable 14.1.0 Discussion & Feedback (9/2/2017 14:21:50)

@Dante: I'm all for lopsided items. But I believe you can already implement them with the current system in place. Something like the Hidebehind shows that even if you give something very high PDB it will still remain (largely) unuseable because of the significant downside.

Furthermore the difference between offensive and defensive build narrows the more defense is nerfed. As it stands, with a 150 roll the difference between my extremely offensive build and extremely defensive build is a mere 20% damage reduction, while before that difference might've been 40%.

At the end of the day I'm fearful because I don't know what these new items are going to look like, or how exactly mobs are going to be changed. My judgement is only based on the state of the game right now, and that's all I can base it on as of right now.



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