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RE: =ED= June 16, 2011 Delta Preview!

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6/20/2011 15:50:05   
Rabies
Lightning Speed!


 Can't wait to get more detail on all of the skills, looks like delta might be a great release.
AQW Epic  Post #: 151
6/20/2011 16:04:39   
Tiago X
Member

@Rabies: You picked the right word. Might. Let's not lose hope, at least not yet.
DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 152
6/20/2011 17:32:10   
Sageofpeace
Member

@Rainaka

Why is that only bad post are read and reply back, i have seen a lot post are look quite professional and done with hard work yet they receive such a poor reply that it just make that person wanted to troll in the forum. you said we have to post nicely so our voice are hear and yet we have two year in this game and just keep getting disappointing. It just frustrating to put a lot hope in a game with potential and end in total disaster because this game means money money money and money

_____________________________

Do not troll forum staff in your signature,
or you won't be allowed to have one. ~LB
Post #: 153
6/20/2011 18:48:41   
Shadronica
Member

Rainaka nobody is blaming the ED Developers at all. What I find objectionable is the Artix Entertainment money intensive features that have been implemented have in actual fact ruined a pure and simple PvP game that in essence was most pleasurable the way it was.

I totally get it that the game needs to reap in some money to cover costs etc. but the mere fact that in my faction alone a few of my members have spent multiple thousands of dollars in one year. In actual fact two of my members have spent close to $10,000 between them. Now its not my place to tell them to stop ... HOWEVER, I feel that a game that encourages people to spend that amount of money is just off the planet!! Surely even blind freddy can see that these features are truly one of the biggest online game rip offs ever.

As for the rest of the money hungry features like enhancements it has truly ruined pvp for the ordinary player like myself. The game is no longer about strategy and skill. I can no longer claim a 90+% win rate with my knowledge of builds and strategy and skill because the huge enhancements has allowed players to stack their stats so that we cannot make a build that will be handy to use against all the classes and builds. Bounty Hunter is probably the closest to being able to handle this problem but why should I change class? Also the game has become pivotal on Luck.

Now as for this new release with the new classes it means that players will be putting their hands in their pockets multiple times to change classes to test them to see which one you want.
Not forgetting that then new class specific items will be released for these new classes that will also need enhancing.
So basically EpicDuel or rather Artix Entertainment is going to score at least another $50 per varium player for the privilege of having new classes added. $50 is a lot for an adult to pay (let alone a child) in our current world economics and I fail to see why we are being asked to pay so much for a game that has so few staff.

Which brings me to the next problem. Why is it that we only have one coder? Has anyone ever thought about the fact that Titan might get sick or need a holiday? God forbid I hope he doesn't get sick but Artix Entertainment needs to use some foresight. We need at the very least a part time back up coder that is familiar with Titan's coding and our game. Heaven's sakes you don't have to be a genius to know that we need help here in our game developing department. Considering that Artix Entertainment basically asks a varium player to contribute roughly $600 per annum I think we are entitled to have security with our game admin.

I do feel that in the perspective of the game's cost to player satisfaction it is most unrealistic. A LOT of changes need to be made to allow the simple but wonderful game of PvP to be the highlight of this game once more.
I don't need to be told that its not easy for Titan and Nightwraith to fix the game the thing is ... they already had a good game but the changes that have been made to it are the problem.

< Message edited by Shadronica -- 6/21/2011 2:19:23 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 154
6/20/2011 18:54:43   
kelvin112233
Member

lol if someone has enough money to spend $10 000 on a game then they aren't the type of person who needs to be worried about money... I also find it that anyone could spend $10 000 on ED unless he changes his class every day...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 155
6/20/2011 18:55:53   
The Joker X
Member

^
^
Very good points. Can't really argue with that Rainaka.

< Message edited by The Joker X -- 6/20/2011 18:56:19 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 156
6/20/2011 19:24:15   
Shadronica
Member

kelvin112233 there is countless players that had already spent well over $1000 - $1500 by May of last year who have now retired.

I agree that its not my place to tell players to stop spending all that money but I do feel that a responsible game would never have implemented features that have no limits on how much you donate. Shameful!

< Message edited by Shadronica -- 6/20/2011 19:26:02 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 157
6/20/2011 21:29:32   
IsaiahtheMage
Member

@Shadronica Lol If anyone spends over 1,000-1,500$ on this game they really need to get their priorities straight.
AQW Epic  Post #: 158
6/20/2011 21:43:47   
PivotalDisorder
Member

I dont really see the problem with spending on a game if it achieves what they are after...enjoyment.
you only live once, and not everyone wants to be a good samaritan giving their money to charities or filling their pad with every
gadget known to man so they can boast about it down the pub. some just wanna feel like they made a small difference or were
recognised, in a "world" that actually interests them. having a life isnt for everyone, and others are able to manage both :)

< Message edited by Jehannum -- 6/20/2011 21:49:57 >
Post #: 159
6/20/2011 23:34:51   
kelvin112233
Member

All i'm saying is that if someone is already spending that type of money on ED then they must be wealthy enough that their spending habits have no affect on them. $10 000 is like 10% of the average annual income for families in Canada before taxes and $10 000 is enough money to buy a house in Detroit. If you can afford to spend that much I don't see how spending more will make much of a difference.

I also don't see how anyone can spend that much. Tell people who spend that much to do some research on classes if they're using up all their varlum on class changes. I think the maximum of class changes that makes sense is 4 because it gives you a chance to test each class and change to the one you prefer, but if people like changing for fun then so be it.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 160
6/21/2011 2:29:48   
Lycus
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 Yes pricing has been brought up - but the thing that no one understands, or keep trying to 'bat off', is that you don't have to buy Varium - or atleast in that quantity. The thing is, I've raised this point before, and a lot of people won't accept it. So I'm going to phrase it in another way.
The thing with Varium is the fact that it has no limit - you buy it and it won't run out if you don't spend it. People say there are loads of features that drain money - Well it's up to you if that's the case. Do you know how many people have bought pointless name changes that they are never going to use, such as 'afguensksoe' and other similar names - Many members have about 3-5 names that they don't use much at all. They then spend loads of Varium switching between these - in my eyes this is not thinking wisely about how you spend your Varium. Again though Varium allows you to spend it how you like, so it's up to you whether you buy 15 names or not, just as long as you know it costs.
Enhancements - Yes the credit prices are hard to reach - but when I asked for any other ideas from a few people I know, the favoured one was 'Get it by paying, or by dedication'. You may now say that the dedication expected is way to much, but it isn't.
A friend of mine, he's been playing since the AE, ED merge, since then he's bought only two 10k varium packages, one in Beta, one in Gamma. He's been sensible with his Varium, and has made it last through these time. He kept battling, and he only has about 7k 1v1 wins, 1k 2v2 overall, but he made enough credits to buy enhancements for his weapon, instead of using his Varium. He hasn't bought any alternate names (I don't think) and has class changed once. The point is, with this Varium he's managed to last a very long time, he's maintained a respectable 83% win record, and has played each release etc.
The reasons I bring him up, is that prooves that you don't have to go overboard buying Varium to do well in the game, you just need good Varium management skills. People see new gear, they don't need, buy it, fully enhance it and don't use it, same with class changes, and name changes, people just switch and switch pointlessly. In fact, people were moaning that they kept buying Varium for these Promos and had to much Varium and didn't know what to do with it. Do you know what, most just spent it all pointlessly, or on name changes and things they didn't really actually want. Now I don't know how people feel they can complain they haven't the Varium to keep up, when people are wasting Varium so so much. It isn't everyone, I know, but the proof is above, you don't need to constantly buy it to stand any chance.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 161
6/21/2011 3:03:33   
Shadronica
Member

You most certainly do need to buy varium in large quantities if you wish to stay on the War Kills leaderboard or the Rares leaderboard. These are the features that I am referring to that is absolutely toxic to this game.

You see I have had friends come to me and ask me to stop my two faction members from firing the cannons when their factions were going for World Domination for that day. So you see it does present a big problem to a lot of smaller factions who do want WD.

Ironically, my very own faction which is one of the oldest still operating/active in ED has no faction achievements so I do not exploit the War Kills leaderboard in any way even being the highest war kills faction. Call me stupid ... but don't call me late for dinner. ;) (That joke will go over some heads but there will be a few savvy people that will get a chuckle.

Yes I do understand that a player can come in and pay very little if they don't wish to compete on a regular basis Rainaka.

All I am saying is that with the income from this game since the AE merge we surely are entitled to have a larger game development team. Surely Titan or Nightwraith have friends from university that they can trust to be employed.

Also I am going to re-iterate that to be a competitive/active player you need to buy the latest best weapons. You see I am a competitive player so I want the best. BUT if the best is coming at an unrealistic price then my common sense kicks in and says NO.

DF AQW Epic  Post #: 162
6/21/2011 12:35:39   
Lycus
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 I did have to chuckle there :P

I do know where you're coming from - but to participate in the competition for War kills is an option, Rarity I do understand, but that really is also an option. I know that some factions, including yours like to compete in the War kill leader boards, but that's an option, the option has been put there, you've taken it :)

I just feel that you do not HAVE to pay to compete, now I usually can log on and win 100% of 10-20 1v1 battles, but I will admit that I have been beaten by level 27-29 Variums and Non-Variums with very cleverly thought out builds. The thing is with the right build you don't need the latest gear to be able to compete - No you may not get your 90% average, but you'll win a very fair amount!

Anyway, I feel all my points have been stated in the last posts, I won't be continuing this discussion.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 163
6/21/2011 13:30:12   
Goony
Constructive!
quote:

Rainaka

The problem is the players can't decide what is actually wrong. One player says one thing, another says something completely differant, and for Titan to fix a problem that nobody can agree on is impossible. That being said, some of the problems are issues that can't be fixed unless the actual game engine coding is editted - this sounds ever so easy, and many players just say, well go fix it, then when it isn't, they say they aren't listened too. The thing is, these problems can't 'just be solved' sadly. Game engine coding issues usually require a big update like Delta, when Titan has time to search through the layers and layers of coding and fix/edit as needed


This is a pretty confusing statement. Firstly, what do you mean by "the players can't actually decide what is wrong". Does this refer to the balance issues prior to focus and agility as both the implemented changes were not the player driven solutions, but those of the developers. There have been many instance where player driven suggestions have caused issues (Refer post #62: http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=18765577&mpage=3#), so why would you say the developers need the players to decide what is wrong.

Multiple of other player suggestions have been made to address the balance issues and is that what you are referring to when you say "some of the problems are issues that can't be fixed unless the actual game engine coding is edited". Titan has never disclosed what is possible and what is not so as a player base we are really in the dark about what type of solutions/feedback is appropriate and what the developers of this game are actually looking for.

Additionally, when you say "The thing is, these problems can't 'just be solved' sadly." what problems are you actually referring too? Are there going to be other changes in Delta that someone from the ED staff would be prepared to talk about? This statement leaves more questions than answers and is pretty typical of the lack of communication that has frustrated many players...

So when you say we (the Epic Duel community) complain that we haven't been listened too! Maybe it's not that the staff haven't listened, but it is the actual response to know what we suggested was not practical. My bet is that this will just be another post that is ignored, like the multitude of other posts I have made, in deference to some ridiculous statement that shouldn't justify clarification.

~G00NY~



< Message edited by Goony -- 6/21/2011 14:03:07 >

_____________________________

In Epic Duel,
success is not final,
failure is not fatal
and it is the courage to continue that counts!
Epic  Post #: 164
6/21/2011 15:31:35   
Lycus
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 @Goony: I think you have completely missed what I meant (I do admit, that part of my post is a bit misleading, sorry! - I merged two points in one, doesn't really make sense...). What I'm referring to is many kind of 'problems' in general, I mean kind of what Illuminator posted in a way, but not completely. Players are always quick to report that something is wrong with the game, such as skills being OP etc. When this happens there's always one person saying it's OP, and someone even saying it's way to weak. In general when something like this pops up, players can not decide on how it needs sorting which can't help anyone fix it. What I was attempting to say was that some so called 'problems' are reported then players can't quite decide what needs doing with it to sort out their dislike of it.
The other thing was that players always complain in general when a bug, or a skill, or anything of the sort that needs fixing isn't fixed straight away. I was trying to say with the "The thing is, these problems can't 'just be solved' sadly." Many just expect these reported bugs etc. to be magicly fixed instantly (I was in no way referring to Delta in that respect), things can't be fixed instantly sometimes, because they require big changes, such as editting the game engine. When releases purely based on bugs being fixed have been released in the past, people have complained nothing material has been released, and that the Devs must have just been twiddling their thumbs all week. So big fixes usually wait until Delta, or other huge updates so that other material/visual changes can also be made at the same time to make it seem a lot more substancial and stop the players from complaining.
After reading through that extract of my post, I can understand where the confusion has came from, I apologise for that, and I hope the above clears that up! :)
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 165
6/21/2011 18:20:33   
Shadronica
Member

Sorry Rainaka but I just won't accept that the blame for the state of this game lays on its player base. That is insulting.

If the game developers have acted upon a "chosen" few players for the game features that have been implemented then it definately does not represent the well being of the majority.

Post after post after post has been made for a very very long time that the varium cost for this game and its features and aggressive marketing is beyond belief and EpicDuel has lost a huge majority of its long loyal customers because nothing at all has been done to address it.

Now as for bugs etc. then just go find another coder to help. Don't tell me that its not easy because there are many many coders out there who would be looking for work. If Artix Entertainment can't see their way clear to provide one of its games with adequate staff then it should stop buying and creating more games.

I am not spending my time here on the forum trying to give the staff a hard time just because I want to be nasty. I am doing my best to give decent customer feedback which seems to be falling on deaf ears. Is it any wonder that so many players have walked away in utter disgust.

One last thing on this discussion is this ... I was a battle mage in early beta prior to agility and focus even before heal looping became the flavour of the month and I never used the heal loop mage build ever. I could manage to get a 90+% win rate even without doing NPC's. I fought all the Legends of the game and held my own against all of them. Back then I could that. My wins were slow but my win % was most respectable.
Since the introduction of Agility, Focus and Enhancements and a rampant luck factor that feat would be impossible. Do you see what I am getting at??!! Its not that hard to figure it out.

Also I would like to add that the varium inflation rate as pointed out by Goony in another post is 286%. So by downplaying the fact that this game has become too expensive is most detrimental.


DF AQW Epic  Post #: 166
6/21/2011 21:04:16   
Thylek Shran
Member

From Nightwraith´s Twitter:

Alydriah Descarl

_____________________________


v.35.3 (2016-01-23) ~ beam.to/shran
DF Epic  Post #: 167
6/21/2011 21:57:14   
Cinderella
Always a Princess


 And I apologize sincerely for making you feel ignored, Shadronica.

I don't know why we only have one programmer- I do not have any insight into hiring decisions.

I think what Rainaka was trying to get at was that it's difficult to please the entire player base when it seems that half the player base wants something opposite of the other half. No matter what we do, it seems like we're ignoring a portion of our player base, which makes updating the game difficult. We know we can't please everybody, and I apologize sincerely for that.

I also can't speak to varium pricing, because I don't have any say in that either.
Post #: 168
6/21/2011 22:15:19   
Rayman
Banned


 From titan :o
quote:


Titan_EpicDuel Can't believe I'm writing this, but it looks like we will have 2vs1 NPC battles ready for Delta!
Idk how to put the message on quote thing

< Message edited by raymanpwner -- 6/21/2011 22:16:43 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 169
6/22/2011 0:13:55   
Shadronica
Member

No need to apologise Cindy. My issues with this game are obviously never going to be addressed until one day hopefully the penny will drop somewhere, somehow and sometime. Which will more than likely be far too late for me to reap any benefit.

As for trying to please the entire player base that is as impossible as it is to get balance in PvP with the current direction that ED has taken.

You know EpicDuel has a natural pool of knowledge in the more mature, unselfish, loyal players who aren't obssessed with exploiting for their own personal gain or gratification. Why aren't these players asked for opinions regarding the effects of future releases and whether or not it will be best for the majority of its player base rather than releasing then getting a whole lot of unwelcome feedback?

Players like Goony, Elf Priest Jzaanu, Illuminator, Barneystillpwnsu, Thylek Shran and Xendran would all give the ED admin good, honest feedback before releases are made that affect us all.

Yes, I know we currently have a new balance team of Wiseman and Rainaka but I can't see that there is a problem with asking opinions from the above well respected people who will all consider pros and cons from totally different aspects. Giving a more overall balance.


Anyway, I guess that is my thoughts on the matter so you can take it in or leave it.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 170
6/22/2011 1:55:42   
Xendran
Member

No offense to Wiseman but i really do not believe he should be a part of a balance team. It has nothing to do with his intelligence but more of his lack of experience actually balancing things as opposed to simply experiencing the lack of balance and his lack of using mathematical reasoning behind his decisions.

I'm going to say this now. Titan, Nightwraith, if you want your game to be balanced you HAVE to at the very least remove rage.

Second, keeping focus and agility in tact as stats are a very poor idea. Focus should be removed, agility should be completely reworked with a different formula and incorporated as a part of a stat that also increases health, etc.

Thirdly, all stat formulas for true balance have to be exponential. I have not done exponential stat increases in my suggestions purely because i do not have the free time required to think of proper formulae, however i may have the time this summer to work with Khimera.

Finally, a rebalance WILL, no matter how much you may be opposed to it, require rebuilding the entire set of stats and skills from the ground up, with the only things remaining in tact being the ideas of what the stats and skills do. The current numbers have to be completely taken out of the picture and rebuilt from the ground up.

< Message edited by Xendran -- 6/22/2011 1:56:54 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 171
6/22/2011 2:28:23   
Lycus
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 @Shadronica: I also apologise if you took that in the wrong way and was instulted - but I just felt that this is a serious matter, and usually, you know that I'm not that abrupt. That also prooves my main point though, insulting posts won't get anyone anywhere - and this is what I was saying in the first few posts.

Also, I don't want to refer to all the players in any way (If you look at some of my earlier posts, and ones in other topics, I always make sure to put 'I know it isn't all the players, and the majority do do this' or something of the type'). The majority of the players are fine - The main point I was trying to put across, is as Cinderella rightly pointed out, every week (Mostly) releases go by and not all the players will be happy with it - This I completely accept, it's only natural. The thing that I don't like is that the player (Only some) will after each and every release, and it's the same people each time, will moan no matter what. They then say they feel ignored because these releases aren't what they asked for, every single release can't please everybody. I mean some people even disagreed with the suggestion shop which amazed me... Basically that was the point I was trying to get across, and I got side tracked...

@Xendran: I have been talking to Khimera and no promises, but he is looking into all the possabilities. The thing is though, whatevers decided with balance is also something not everyone is going to be happy about, so.... I really do not know :P
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 172
6/22/2011 3:17:42   
Shadronica
Member

Well we are always going to have someone that is not pleased. That is a fact of life.

Np Rainaka ;) If you need advice about balance you know where to find me :P
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 173
6/22/2011 3:20:35   
Deimos...
Member

Who is excited to view Ulysses's underground workshop? o.o
I know I am excited!!!!!! I can't wait for delta!


Iamawesome
Epic  Post #: 174
6/22/2011 3:32:06   
Xendran
Member

The point of balance is not to make everybody happy, it is to create balance.

EDIT: Me and Khimera have come up with some things we're pretty sure everybody will like AS WELL as being balanced (:



< Message edited by Xendran -- 6/22/2011 5:37:34 >
AQ DF Epic  Post #: 175
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