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RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes

 
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8/15/2012 14:30:10   
friend18
Member

quote:

You nerfed the Android by lowering it's(special) damage. Fine.

Increased cooldown(on just the special or both attacks?). Why?

Made the special blockable instead of deflectable. Why?


The increased cooldown was because the bot was being used so often. The damage is already pretty high to begin with.

For the special... IDK. The proposed changes aren't for sure yet.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 26
8/15/2012 14:30:26   
  RabbleFroth
ED Programmer


quote:

You nerfed the Android by lowering it's(special) damage. Fine.

Increased cooldown(on just the special or both attacks?). Why?

Made the special blockable instead of deflectable. Why?


I felt that 3 turns was just not enough between salvos to recover in most cases, so your only option would be to try and kill the person with the Android when you're already weak. I don't like the idea of making the special usable only once per battle, so I think a 4 turn cooldown is a fair trade.

As far as making it deflectable, it wasn't an option since we didn't have the ability to make skills deflectable. I'm using past tense because that changed about 5 minutes ago. I agree that making it blockable makes less sense since it is an energy laser, and is a little too harsh to make you wait 10+ turns to do 0 damage with the special.

To clarify: Infernal Android laser will be deflectable. It cannot be blocked fully.
Post #: 27
8/15/2012 14:30:44   
carabuno
Member

I assault bot should be better than rusted IMO
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 28
8/15/2012 14:32:34   
Viesty
Member

Ugh, gonna have to go back to regular build, my 4 focus will be ruined after this...

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AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 29
8/15/2012 14:35:54   
helloguy
Member

I'd like this bot just to go rare and ending it there
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 30
8/15/2012 14:35:52   
Ranloth
Banned


Assault Bot already has advantage over Rusted, that's 2 more damage which is equal to 2 Levels difference which is also equal to the Varium advantage. Deflectable attack is better over blockable, and boost is good enough so yeah.
I'm not sure if Rabble can make Rusted's damage same as Assaults and give the Varium advantage in form of % debuff. Since 65% is case for Azrael and Assault, saying that Assault shouldn't get that change also means neither should Azrael. 2 Levels advantage can be put into effect if Rabble finds out average Tech/Dex for all the Levels (Varium and Non Varium players), looks at values of Malf and Smoke (Varium and non Varium players), find out the average and translate it into the difference in %s for the effect which by my guesstimates may be around 10% at most.
AQ Epic  Post #: 31
8/15/2012 14:36:58   
Mother1
Member

Hey Rabblefroth while you are at it since you are making the android's laser defectable why not do the same for the gamma bot? It is the only laser in the game that is blockable and it doesn't make any sense whatsoever since it is an energy attack instead of leaving it alone. Just a little food for thought.
Epic  Post #: 32
8/15/2012 14:43:24   
Super Fat Man
Member

Hmmm doesn't seem bad, but I want to do something about the str bm now.
Epic  Post #: 33
8/15/2012 14:48:13   
carabuno
Member

off bot discussion , just a suggestion of how to fix str bm fireball increase with support boom done and as a str bm right now , that would be an amazing change with more build possibilities because of it
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 34
8/15/2012 14:50:41   
friend18
Member

^I find the deadly aim + bloodlust combination more devastating. Fireball requires energy, deadly aim doesn't. It's usually +10 more damage, which really hurts and helps them heal faster (plus the BM's always rage their sidearms -_-).
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 35
8/15/2012 14:54:34   
Mother1
Member

^ Well thanks to the new bot balance there is a counter for it. If you have the baby yeti use it to eat their sidearms and boom problem solved. When ever I switched up my bots in the past I whenever I had the baby yeti equipped I would use it to eat the weapons of strength blood mages just before the raged. It didn't always work, but now thanks to the move being unblockable we have a absolute counter to this.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 8/15/2012 14:57:25 >
Epic  Post #: 36
8/15/2012 14:57:38   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Infernal Android
Simply put, we made this bot much stronger than we meant to. After 3 rounds it would deal regular bot damage, and
at round 7 it would deal 160% damage. Coupled with a rage attack and the fact that it was unblockable often meant a
guaranteed kill. Even if it did not secure the kill, 3 turns later it could be used again for the same amount of damage.


The new system will take 5 rounds before it deals regular damage, and won't hit the damage cap until round 15. This
means that it will still be powerful on a durable build, but will take much longer to pull off and provides a more interesting
decision of "do I use it now or risk waiting so I can deal more damage?".

seems good, i never tried this bot, nor intend to see how strong it is. but i hear its outrageously OP.

quote:

Assault Bot
This special was easily the most useful of all the bots (before the Infernal Android) and eclipsed everything else because
of it. It will still remain useful, but should no longer be far and away the best to use in almost all cases. Depending on your
build, the other bots should be fairly attractive options now.

why? assault bot is already near usesless. the only good thing it had was its debuff. and in most cases now a days, the debuff is considered a waste of turn. making it even weaker will only magnify that effect, and will no longer be used by varium players.

i never found assault bot to be the most usefull. actually i found bio borgs thorn to be the most useful. i see alot of tanks using it.
u ever imagine a tank with 40 defense (total) and 40 res (total) and he uses thorn. thats the sickest thing i ever seen. they already tank so ur dealing low damage, then whatever damage u do, u take damage aswell? seems unfair. specially since using unblockables so that thorns dosn't take effect can sometimes end even worse with ur gun and aux being deflected by tanks. (which is a big reality against cybers and tlms)

the other most usefull bot to me was azrael because of its unblockable special. i had alot of tanks use buffing abilities on me (*cough* CH *cough* and bm/bh reflex boost) and azrael was almost always the way to go if i wanted a chance at winning.

quote:

Azrael's Borg
This follows the Assault Bot, reducing someone's buffs by 80% was just too strong of an ability and an absolute counter to
certain builds. It will remain strong (65% is still a pretty hefty reduction), but allows the buff to still have *some* effect.

It no longer affects Thorns because we don't want one bot to be a complete counter to another. This effectively prevented
the Bioborg bot from being useful in any real way.

again why? the bot is unblockable, why not nerf it from that end instead?
and about the effectiveness of bio borg, isn't that was azrael bot was made for? to reduce effectiveness of buffs?
such a huge contradiction to the nerfs here.

quote:

Pyro Fly
Because of the random nature of this bot's special, we wanted to make it a little bit more useful than it is currently. We
thought about allowing it to be used more than once per battle, but were afraid that this could easily shut down someone's
ability to do anything (especially in a 2v2), which is not the intention. Giving it a little bit of extra damage on use should make
it worth using, even if it doesn't take away your opponent's best skill.

no comment, but u better expect that tank cybers will be OP with this. getting ur field medic or debuff shut down by pyro fly is the worst thing that can happen against a tank cyber. if this happens u might aswell exit the match.

quote:

Baby Yeti
Because this special could be blocked, the tactical decision of when to use it was left to chance. Now, you can choose the best
time to disable someone's gun and aux and know that it will work every time.

if this is going to happen, can we atleast get a support stat buff? the switch of deflection to tech and the change on field medic was a bit overkill for support. (now support is no longer even considered a viable build.)

the reason why i ask is,
u have baby yeti to cancel aux and gun.
u have the delta gear that has the curse effect which reduces support.
u took support from field medic and now that build has no strong surviving abilities.
u moved deflection to tech, and made tanks even stronger by doing this. because originally, support was a go to stat for countering tank builds. now support gets deflected by tanks, which kinda ruins the whole point of the build.

now if people say support would be OP. i dont remember support being OP back in the day when we had str BH and tank mercs.
now that we have more classes, (tlm, CH, and BM) so i honestly dont understand the reason for support being so weak. if support was buffed, u would be opening alot of options (most notably merc, and mages(not the caster versions)) for builds.
now i understand field medic may be a risk in the whole "heal looping" thing that the staff seem to hate, but if its such a big issue, why not add a cap to how many times u can heal in a battle? like lets say u can only heal once per battle.
support builds would atleast have 1 decent ability to use. essentially making it a support exclusive since it could be stronger with support. (and limited so it isn't abused into heal looping by CH, tlm, or tech mage)

anyway, the reason i just mentioned this is, it doesn't make sense to keep nerfing support. this bot change will essentially nerf support even more (because it affects their aux, ur essentially making support countering weapons even stronger)


quote:

Gamma Bot
We feel this bot is already pretty good at doing what it's designed to do, which is to simply deal damage.

very versatile robot.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 8/15/2012 15:06:36 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 37
8/15/2012 14:58:22   
Darkwing
Member

the damage from android deflectable? well most focus builds have many points in tech ( tech=more bot damage) so it will be hard to deflect them ( if you don't have a techbuild or malfunction). from blockable to deflectable is a big buff, it was better blockable
Post #: 38
8/15/2012 15:02:55   
Steel Slayer
Member

For the most part, i like this, just a few tweaks IMO
quote:

* Infernal Android
- Old system: Starts at 70% regular damage, +15% damage per round, 160% cap (unblockable, 3 turn cooldown)
- New system: Starts at 80% damage, +5% damage per round, 150% cap (deflectable, 4 turn cooldown)

I like it, just seems a little much of a nerf, i would say either go +10% per round, or keep the 3 round cooldown. Deflectable is good idea.
quote:

* Azrael's Borg
- Buff reduction lowered from 80% to 65%
- No longer affects Bioborg's thorn effect

I think this a bit much, 70% sounds more fair to me, largely because of the next one.....
quote:

* Assault and Rusted Assault Bots
- Debuff reduction lowered from 80% to 65%

Like everyone else who paid varium for an Assault Bot, I dont think its enough stronger than the Rusted one. I say make Assault Bot 70%, and Rusted 60% or 65%, 2 damage difference is nothing, since most people who use this dont attack with it anyway. Either that, or merge the 2 bots, and refund the varium we paid for the premium version(just kidding- I know theres no way that would happen)
Epic  Post #: 39
8/15/2012 15:06:33   
ScarletReaper
Member

These changes seem very fair rabble. glad to see the new bot will still be usefull as well as the slight nerf to the assault bots and azreal. Debuffs might actually be good again!

_____________________________

DF AQW Epic  Post #: 40
8/15/2012 15:07:29   
Duke23526
Member

in the next update can u put the baby yeti as a thing that you can get with keys just like the pyro fly plz!!!!
Post #: 41
8/15/2012 15:08:21   
Mother1
Member

Darkwing the effects haven't been put into play yet so as far as we know the bot ability is still unblockable until the update. So going from unblockable to deflectable is just that a nerf. if it was made blockable they would be giving an advantage to bounty and cyber hunters since they have a higher block chance due to shadow arts.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 8/15/2012 15:10:08 >
Epic  Post #: 42
8/15/2012 15:16:36   
kittycat
Member

The bot changes seem somewhat satisfactory, to emphasize the varium purchased in Assault bot, nerf the Rusted version down to 50-60%.
AQ MQ  Post #: 43
8/15/2012 15:21:29   
Mother1
Member

Exactly what I was thinking for the longest. I mean come on it is suppose to be a weakened version of the original yet it's special ability is still the same as the original? how is that fair to those who actually paid varium for there bots?
Epic  Post #: 44
8/15/2012 15:22:11   
Drianx
Member

@Rabblefroth

For now the robots overhaul looks promising to me.

But whatever the final changes, PLEASE make sure you test them thoroughly before going into production, and keep in mind that some robots were MUCH expensive than others. Otherwise the robot for the masses will still rule over those that costed at least twice as much.

< Message edited by Drianx -- 8/15/2012 15:24:32 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 45
8/15/2012 15:26:03   
Darkwing
Member

@ kittycat+ mother1 For a long time now you could get assault bot FREEE DROP from arcade or PVP. It's not like all who got assault bot buy it with varium.


@ helloguy I checked wiki, and it is in the pvp drops list.

< Message edited by Darkwing -- 8/15/2012 15:32:08 >
Post #: 46
8/15/2012 15:28:52   
helloguy
Member

it only dropped from arcade ever never pvp
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 47
8/15/2012 15:35:39   
Mother1
Member

^ Not to mention when it was a Arcade drop your chances of getting it were slim to none. In fact when I was playing epic duel when the arcade was around, there was only one person I ever seen or spoken with who was non varium that told me they lucked out and won one.
Epic  Post #: 48
8/15/2012 15:36:59   
kittycat
Member

@Darkwing: Well one person or two won't make much of a difference.
AQ MQ  Post #: 49
8/15/2012 15:44:21   
helloguy
Member

I ended lucking out on one of my alt and got one very early in the game
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 50
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